The lack of "real world complaints" and "anger" in popular music genres helps keep the masses docile
Been thinking a bit about this, popular music (the ones that hit top 100 charts or whatever) never has lyrics that point out real problems or point to culprits and how they're fucking our shit, which is very easy to find in punk rock and some variations, as well as rap.
Of course, part of the problem are the record labels themselves, which often hold artists "hostage" in order to profit off them. Bigger ones will obviously prefer to avoid having such lyrics become popular.
Still, there seems to be absolute zero songs in certain genres that even come within 10 meters of talking/singing/teaching/bringing awareness about situations that affect a LOT of listeners, even from far away, and would be extremely helpful in spreading some knowledge.
Granted, doing so is easier said than done, a catchy tune that calls out big oil's many attempts to burn the world, or big pharma's frequent price gouging, aren't things "any idiot" can come up with. But that nobody outside "angry" genres seems to be doing it is what saddens me.
Dude, you are overthinking this. Like, you spent longer thinking about the alleged pacification of masses by agenda driven producers than said producers spent thinking about the songs in question.
There is no agenda and/or purpose behind this. You just made the mistake to assume your views on one of the most subjective topics possible (music) are fitting for music in general. That's not the case.
You might like a little rebellion, commentary, what have you in your music. You might like to express the issues that move you via music. Many others don't.
The charts are, what people are actually listening to, so don't mistake the charts for something that's only pushed by labels or something. It takes listeners and labels to push something into the charts.
That doesn't say that there are never songs of the critical variety in the charts or anything. It's just rarer.
Fair points
Guess that's why it's a shower thought :P
Still, it's something that I (over)think about every now and then, probably for dumb or wrong reasons.
"And all she wants to do is dance." Nobody ever remembers the rest of the lyrics.
There's a great podcast called Wind of Change on if the government is involved in music and specifically that song. I've never seen it and most government programs are highly documented and focused on Hollywood by giving them access to resources. The US Army is not going to let you borrow tanks if you are going to put them in a bad light. That's just dumb. This is actually one of my dream programs to become involved with on a personal level.
But this statement by itself is incredibly disingenuous. Artists and record labels literally have to pay Spotify to get their songs to be played in the algorithm. Yes, it is technically what people are listening to but it's actually almost always which record company decided to break open their wallet the most for that particular song.
While there may very well be a conspiracist element to this, I suspect that it's simpler than that. For a lot of people music is meant to be their escape from reality, so having reality interject ruins the experience - as such any songs that try to capture that simply don't get as popular, so end up in alternative genres
Yeah, popular music - by definition - is going to have a broad appeal, and pointing out major problems with our society is always going to be at least a bit divisive, especially when the issue is split in party lines
That is it for me. Music, like PC games and Movies/TV Shows, are my escape from reality and I don't want to have that tainted and ruined by real world, politics or the like.
I always thought it was pretty stupid that rage against the machine was criticized for simultaneously being anticapitalist and commercially successful. What do we want, commercially successful bands to all be bootlickers or completely apolitical? Much better to reach more people.
How is rage against the machine reaching more people when their latest concert tickets were going for like $500 a piece. Seems like they're only reaching the wealthy at this point. I mean rage is a band that loses its meaning the moment they get big and wealthy. Now we got a bunch of millionaires on stage, singing to the children of millionaires, about how unfair society is. It's kind of a joke
Record companies are complete shithouses but they’re not part of some global conspiracy
Rage Against the Machine and Public Enemy come immediately to mind.
Edit: I guess those would fall into, what you call, “angry genres”. Not sure if that matters when it comes to spreading information. Popular is popular regardless of tone, and what is popular changes pretty regularly.
There's a lot of "non-angry" (ie no thick distorted guitars and screamed vocals) music that has strong political themes and social commentary going on. A lot of folk, blues, EBM, EDM, reagge, dub is about the struggles of the working class, people of color etc, has anti-capitalist, anti-war and anti-globalisation message.
Leslie fish
Asian Dub Foundation
Later VNV Nation (early works are stylistically more "angry", but thematically similar)
Covenant
Chip Taylor
Shamen
And many more
90% of people have never heard of Electronic Body Music. And that's a conservative estimate lol. Same goes for dub. Most may have at least heard of reggae and passing. And only generally associate wub wub wub with EDM.
If it isn't the forcefed to them over radio broadcast, most people have never heard of it unfortunately. But yes, EBM postpunk and all those others are all pretty good for calling out society and the problems in it. They just aren't popular, or at least never played on broadcast radio so they can get popular. But let's be honest, who doesn't like a good song about eating the rich.
You're right, of course, but my point is that it's not only metal, punk and other "angry" music, or more precisely, music that is aesthetically an acquired taste. There's a lot of mellow, danceable and catchy music that has themes other than "Ooh, baby, baby, yeah, aha". That this sort of music is not played on radio is a completely different problem.
Take a listen to eg VNV Nation's Tomorrow Never Comes and tell me it couldn't be a nr. 1 hit on radio and in clubs. It has all the making of a good catchy pop song, yet has some very thoughtful and contemplative lyrics.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
eating the rich
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Someone clearly hasn't been listening to the lyrics in pop songs.
Some modern pop songs are actually about some pretty dark subjects and aren't happy at all. Pumped Up Kicks immediately comes to mind.
Listening to the radio in the car its 75% breakup songs, 20% about sex, and 5% butchered rap that have any possibly "sweary" word taken out.
Music of rebellion makes you wanna rage; but it's made by millionaires who are nearly twice your age.
-Porcupine Tree
Damn, that song was written for this thread.
I think it's because the top 100 or whatever chart you're looking at is meaningless these days. It used to be a fair representation of what people were listening to, I remember people taping the top 40 off the radio on a Sunday to listen to through the week, everyone was on the same page regarding new single releases.
Now we're atomized, I don't even know what the #1 single is on any given week and I don't care. I've got 30,000 tracks on my home server. There's no new artist who can speak for a generation like Dylan or Woody Guthrie could in their day.
Not to mention those charts are easily manipulated nowadays. The criteria changes depending on who they want to put at the top.
It's a byproduct of diminishing sales of singles. You couldn't rig the charts in the 70's or 80's without spending a small fortune.
True. At same time, permitting angry music subcultures keeps the angry masses docile enough to not completely lose their shit. Engaging in angry music is a bit the same like writing angry political comments online - it feels engaged but changes little.
About pop music, I do respect that some people enjoy catchy tunes, easy melodies, dance-able rhythm as a kind of escapism. Listening to political comment can be exhausting, and music is, among other roles it can play, meant to be enjoyed.
That said, give me punk rock before pop anytime. Most shallow music these days makes my brain melt with the use of autotune alone before I even try to make out the lyrics.
I feel like pop songs are incompatible with the kind of message you're proposing. Pop songs need to be generic, lighthearted and catchy to receive as wide an audience as possible.
U2, Midnight Oil both managed it
System of a Down, Flobots, Rise Against & Rage Against the Machine aren't popular music?
Yes, but how often do you see them in mainstream media these days?
So now the qualifier is mainstream media & popular music?
The qualifier listed by op was "popular music"
Those are definitely the most popular artists in our current day. Rage out out a new album only 20 years ago.
SOAD has new songs out now & are working on a another album.
Rise Against released an album last year & the year before that.
Tom Morello released an album in 2021 & also has an XM radio show.
Is SOAD currently popular? Ministry just put out an album with a lot of political lyrics (like they always have) but I wouldn’t consider them a currently popular band either.
Also, Tom Morello’s solo output is not Rage Against the Machine, and if you heard it, it would be pretty clear to you.
i don't treat music, or any entertainment medium, associated with reality. whenever i watch or listen to something, i want to be transported to the world the artists created.
like listeners who listens to whatever top charts now, they want escapism and we should not give a damn about it. the real world is depressing enough, you want to extend it?
Escapism is a valid reason to enjoy music, but catharsis is a thing for some too. Sometimes it's helpful to hear someone artfully articulate something I feel but haven't put words to. When I'm frustrated with the world I put on some Against Me, rage about things for a bit, and then feel better.
On my way home yesterday I heard an updated remake of "We Didn't Start the Fire"...
Which isn't as good as the original, because the events aren't in chronological order.
Rage Against the Machine has had a Billboard Top 100 song with Guerilla Radio. As have a lot of other angry songs over the years, especially in the 90's, 2000's and 2010's when grunge and numetal were big.
Are you only actually looking at "pop music" which is itself a genre and doesn't necessarily mean that it's actually popular? Or do you just mean here and now in 2023?
Thinking more about genres than isolated songs. Down here (Brazil) the more popular genres completely lack anything that goes beyond typical party music.
Isn’t the stuff that’s popular only popular because that’s what people want to hear? That’s what the people who only like popular music tell me.
Fit For An Autopsy exists. Listen to them. They just had a tour like last year.
Are they 'popular music'? How much airtime are they getting on mainstream radio? Where are they in the charts?
They packed the Nile, man.
If you care for music that touches on climate change and class disparity, you could check out King Gizzard and The Lizard Wizard's albums Infest The Rats Nest and PetroDragonic Apocalypse; or, Dawn of Eternal Night: An Annihilation of Planet Earth and the Beginning of Merciless Damnation.
I really enjoy those albums even though I don't typically get into Metal music. For something that's not Metal, the song Plastic Boogie from their album Fishing For Fishies is also great.
Most political songs belong to more extreme political views, I'd say. Thus they're divisive and are more prone to angry music styles. Most people seem to prefer music that makes them feel good, so non political songs are more succesful. There are political feel good songs, 'we are the world' comes to mind. So I don't think its a conspiracy of record labels to keep the masses docile. Plus with streaming services the big labels loss influence, but things have not changed much.
My friend. Rich Men North Of Richmond was number 1 for quit some time
Ah yes, the song against taxes and welfare, with capitalist realism and confederate undertones will liberate the masses.
Lol it's a song about how the system is broken and the welfare system is broken. Allowing people to milk it while others starve in the streets.
I'm pretty sure that there still are a lot of songs about social issues.
That was not the point I was making
"Less Talk, More Rock" and "How To Clean Everything" by Propagandhi were released damn near 30 years ago and sadly that shit is still relevant
I don't think it's quite that simple, though I suspect there is a grain of truth to it, that apolitical or less emotional music is manipulated out of popular and financial success. Mostly, though, I think it's just the nature of reaching wide audiences. The "blander" (here meaning simply not particularly heavy on any subject matter) something is, the fewer people will be put off by what it has to say. If all there is to a song is just enjoying the piece of music for entertainment, there are simply more people who would appreciate that over, say, black metal, that is designed to evoke certain specific strong emotions
I also suspect that your premise is not so much flawed, but a disingenuous oversimplification, and that popular music probably involves heavier and "angrier" themes then you are giving it credit for. Or maybe you're right entirely. I couldn't name a single Taylor Swift song. I'm a metalhead, and whenever I go outside that comfort zone, it's never to pop music. I look for artistry in music, and the top 100 don't guarantee artistry, only sales, which if you wanna get into, is a whole lot of conspiring, just not political
Sales as a measure of success is entirely flawed in a capitalist society well after the invention of the field of psychology. When you know how to manipulate people, you can manipulate populations into buying shitty music. If you have the money, you can pay for advertising, which will make your artist seem more popular than they are, and then give you even more money to pump into yet more advertisement. It is certainly political, but not in a "we can't have people having revolutionary thoughts" way, just in a "capitalism must perpetuate itself" way
King Gizzard? Like, okay, they aren't Superbowl popular (yet), and they aren't exactly pop-music from a genre standpoint (though they've had albums that dip into that), but they're growing rapidly. They're also indie, so they don't have the issues that come with being on a label, but damn, they're growing pretty rapidly despite not having that kinda backing.
Well, John Lennon tried but someone shot him. Imagine was an intensely political song though.
Truly the most popular current artist
Would a more current musician dying make you feel any differently?
About whether or not your post was relevant to OP? I would have to see.
Oh. Something happening in the past influencing how people in the present act isn't that unusual.
Are you trying to say that there isn’t any currently popular music with “angry” lyrics because these artists are afraid of being killed, based on John Lennon being killed?
I wouldn't go so far as to call it a singular purpose, things are seldom that cut-and-dried, where this person over here made the choice they did just because of that one, singular, reason.
I would call it an influential event in the chilling of political music though. Which is a little ironic, since if I remember right, the guy that shot him was just mentally ill.
Would your view change if I revealed to you that current popular artists DO have songs featuring “anger” and “real world complaints?” Here‘a one example. I’m not a huge pop fan so I don’t currently have any other examples at the moment.
https://youtu.be/k0QWX2M7W7M?si=21KV20GBdYGDWT6t
Pop music is happy, dance, fun music - usually. Nothing weird about that. It's weird when it isn't.
I think it's called "escapism"
Yeah, but you’re forgetting how much it hurts Ed Sheeran’s feelings when you never call.
Hey OP, have you listened to what's on country radio these days? EVERY other song is about how alcohol is so useful (to party, to forget your ex, to enjoy being poor, to self medicate after a 70 hour work week). It's bonkers. And the other half still reference drinking.
Long Neck Bottle has nothing on these insane anthems that encourage drinking and being happy being poor. It's a perfect pacifier for a demographic that is largely impoverished with very few ways to escape poverty. Might as well have em singing along about how the cold beer they have means being broke is fine.
Where I live (not USA), most songs on the radio are about:
It's common to have a mix of those things in a single song
IDLES are getting pretty popular and they are very vocal about social justice and politics. Still not a top 100 charts band though.
Things were a bit different in the 80s and 90s I would say, with songs like "Land of Confusion" by Genesis and "Civil War" by Guns n' Roses charting in the top 10.
I think the reason we dont hear much music that is critical about current events in the charts is a consumer problem though. Mary and John just don't want to listen to stuff that is uncomfortable. Record Labels would definitely produce music like that again, if it would be profitable.
I hate Punk Rock but its left so I need to like it I guess 🤷♂️
When it comes to rap, it was far easier to find.
I'm not alone in noticing that a lot of mainstream(!!!) rap has become a minstrel show, glorifying capitalism, and racist stereotypes about black people.
Yeah, I should've mentioned that "root" or "OG" rap went into that more often
Here's a few (many still not that new I admit) to get you started - mostly rap but not all rap. Not posting these to argue with you, posting to help you discover some new music. 🙂 Each of these is a personal favorite of mine. (Edit: I see you are in Brazil. I admit these are somewhat US-centric in some cases.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFazh_Z69uQ 2020 Arrested Development - Amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKHf1YVATfk 2012 B. Dolan - Which Side Are You On?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNUl8bAKdi4 2020 Public Enemy and Others - Fight the power 2020 Remix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ 2007 Brother Ali - Uncle Sam Goddamn (this one really hits)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKHsGh-y8d8 2012 Brother Ali - Mourning in America 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S18KrqrC01U 2022 Dropkick Murphys - Dig a Hole (you can say this is about Nazis because of when the lyrics were new, but based on this recent clip, yeah, I don't think they are only talking about WWII fascists in this cover)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc 2014 Rob Hustle - Call the Cops
Edited to add: I have a tiny Kbin communityy/magazine specifically for music with a message. (I'm very nearly the only poster so far.)
I don't know how to link it in the correct way for non-kbin folks to hit it, but it's called Music With a Message https://kbin.social/m/musicwithamessage
Edit 2: Not sure if this is the way to do it for Lemmy folks: !musicwithamessage
I will continue to slowly grow the list there.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=YFazh_Z69uQ
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=oKHf1YVATfk
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=nNUl8bAKdi4
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=dKHsGh-y8d8
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=S18KrqrC01U
this recent clip
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Subscribed thanks.
Thank you!
Can't seem to find a way to make the link work as something to see from within one's own instance.
For me it should be this: [email protected], the link is
c/[email protected], but I guess due to how kbin orders its communities as magazines,/m/instead, it doesn't quite work? m/ instead of c/ gives a 404There is a way to sub to Kbin magazines from Lemmy, unfortunately I don't know what it is.
On the kbin side I can search all "magazines" for keywords and Lemmy communities will come up there, and I can sub that way. I'd assume there's a similar reverse method on the Lemmy side.
If someone more knowledgeable wants to let me know how to format the link in a way that will work for Lemmy folks I'll remember it for the future.
Give me something to not feel depressed and let me tune out.
Been listening to Ren for a while now and it’s quite a good experience. Money game needless to say, crucify your culture and dear god are probably other songs that hit different.
I was thinking about this watching the doc "Midnight Oil: 1984". A year and a band (I think) that transcended the angry genre, music was catchy and very popular. So maybe the times will come around again. I feel sick of the media ignoring even the most basic issues (like, dunno, survival and stuff), and I think and hope others will connect with art that expresses some level of discontent. Which is a form of sanity these days.
FYI, AWOLNation & Rise Against just released a cover of "Beds are Burning".
Does music necessarily need to bring awareness? I'm not even a big lyrics person. Half the time, I don't really pay attention to them. I'm sure I'm far from alone. Otherwise there wouldn't be right-wing RATM fans.
There are other ways to make people politically aware.
Are you serial saying that modern music isn’t angry anymore? Because it ALL sounds angry to me.
I miss the 80’s when things were far less angsty.
No, I'm saying some genres completely lack anger and seem to rarely, if never, touch or try to bring awareness to problematic issues