Swiss parliament approves ban on full-face coverings like burqas, and sets fine for violators
https://apnews.com/article/switzerland-burqa-niqab-face-covering-ban-fine-4a4392a28498618ca0c59e290fe10a36Open linkView original on lemmy.world300
Comments104
Like, I get wanting to defend the rights of women under oppressive religions and governments, but how exactly does controlling what women are allowed to wear accomplish that?
No, you dont get it.
This law isn't exclusive to women, it applies to men too
I just hate these hijab wearing men that I see all the time.
Hijabs are still legal
im not the biggest fan of the muslim faith but this is stupid
Austria also has a law like that, and it has been a complete shitshow. There have been fines for someone wearing a scarf while riding a bike and for someone at work dressed up in a body suit in front of the shop for advertisement reasons (like a mascot).
When the law went into effect, the newspapers reported that there were about ten muslim women currently wearing coverings in the whole country.
After years of covid where everyone would supposedly die in terror attacks if the face coverings happened I'm surprised this fear mongering still manages to pass.
Full face covering burqas are not really an Islamic thing. The headscarves are. The burqas are a cultural thing for some. And usually almost nobody actually wears them. But you can get brownie points with the racists for passing these laws and show that your country is well on the way to moral decline.
Gotta make sure you don't compromise that facial recognition
Apparently measuring a person's natural walking gait is far more effective at identifying people. Who knew Monty Python had it right, so long ago.
Put a pebble in my shoe, gottit.
[insert goofy stone-in-shoe scene from White House Plumbers]
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Who knew Monty Python had it right, so long ago.
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YES!
It's important how much clothing you wear. Not too much and not too little. It MUST BE the RIGHT amount.
Humans.
Personally we need to ban underwear and socks
As far as I know socks are banned already in the case they’re white.
Only if you wear sandals.
You forgot sexism, but I guess you are a man and that doesn't affect you.
so, it will certainly help solve a problem our society faces today.
Making women have to cover themselves to be pure is sexist AF, especially because muslim men can dress whatever they want. The whole philosophy that socializes women to willingly do this to themselves is the problem, and a problem that is enforced by muslim religion.
"no, you are the sexist for not letting us make women dress how we want". What a joke.
You forgot to read this:
"The whole philosophy that socializes women to willingly do this to themselves is the problem"
Maybe you are being downvoted because you are not adding anything to the conversation either? What does that suppose to mean?
"I haven't actually said anything and my post has no value"
Sounds like downvotes are working as intended.
Once again, seeing as OP hasn't replied to you, there is no reason not to sort this to the bottom/hide it as there's no value here to anyone else reading the comments.
This is easily avoided by simply saying "If you live in Europe, {Argument for people living in Europe}. If you don't live in Europe, {Argument for people not living in Europe}" As both groups of people will be reading your comment.
I hate this. What if I wanna cover my face to evade facial detection? That's illegal now?
Nope, wear a surgical mask.
That's not good enough with current facial detection tech...
Add sunglasses?
https://www.datasciencecentral.com/sunglasses-and-face-mask-wont-fool-facial-recognition/
"More recent studies have developed CNN-based systems that can correctly identify who is behind the sunglasses, scarf, or facemask, with up to almost 99% sensitivity"
Well, that sucks
Jup 🙃
no dont worry, its only the brown people face coverings that are bad
What if I'm cold or want to go skiing? I could wrap a scarf over my face which I have done. Is that not illegal because it's not the same garment?
What about COVID? Wouldn't masks conflict with that also? Of all countries I'd never imagine one with a colder climate to make such a law.
There are exceptions for sport and health&safety. You can do all of these things.
Does getting spanked by my husband if I don't cover my face count as a health and safety concern?
Depends on the safe word
It counts as a crime against your physical integrity and dignity and you should report him to the police
Not sure where you're getting your masks from but mine sure aren't covering my whole face.
Can see the argument for skiing masks and shit though
Austria has a similar law. And a website that connects the local whether report with the rules for when wearing a scarf is okay.
So I have to look at the internet to see if I'm allowed to protect myself from the cold? Oh not officially cold enough even though it's making my face hurt, guess I'll just suffer because God forbid I'm allowed to be the one who decides how much of my body I went exposed to the elements.
You like authoritarian control of the most basic parts of people's lives, most people don't want to live in a world like that.
Exactly
I can understand the reasoning for government officials and kids at school, but what are they smoking to straight up ban it in their country?
The same thing islamist countries are smoking when they kill women not covering their head, probably.
i am glad that we are fighting these terrible regimes that enforce what women can and cannot wear by letting the regime enforce what women can and cannot wear
high five gang
Ah, yes, let's allow women to be forced to cover all of their bodies, that's the right step
/s
...so as i was saying, i am glad we are fighting women being forced to dress themselves a certain way by forcing them to dress themselves a certain way
Ah, yes, let's allow women to be forced to cover all of their bodies, that's the right step
/s
I'm sorry, why is the ability of choice, an inclusion of force to you?
Don't u see the 3 "shades"?
-Force women to wear smt -Let women choose what to wear -Force women not to wear something
I know the problem is that you don't wanna sre it, but hopefully somebody sees this before going the wrong path.
Ok let's look at your alternative.
What do you ACTUALLY think women who are being forced by their families or communities to wear the veil are going to do with this kind of ban in place?
If you guessed anything other than "become a domestic prisoner", you're wrong and have no place spouting off about this shit.
This is the hostile architecture of multicultural feminism. You're not helping shit, you're just pushing the problem into the corners where it isn't going to be seen by anyone who could raise the issue.
Sounds like we need to ban smoking
Never go full Trump.
This gave me a good laugh
These do seem inconsistant. What about 95 masks? that covers the face and nose.
But not the eyes. Besides it's easy to include an exception for legitimate medical purposes - even considering the law was written by a bunch of quasi-fascists I would be surprised if that's not covered in the law, especially since the article mentions there are exceptions.
Seems like this is the initiative they passed.
The English language selection in the top right doesn't seem to work but (3) states:
It's a bit vague but they seem to have thought of it.
What I find curious is that this seems to be no mere law but a change to the constitution.
That's how the Swiss do it: Change the constitution via referendum, let the government figure out the details which it has to because it's bound to the constitution.
Do those other things cover the eyes? How do they see? Isn't something that covers the eyes essentially a blind fold. This makes em wonder further. I have never been to switzerland but I am under the impression it can be cold. I am from a place where it is cold. In extreme cold I have scarf, baclava, etc combined with goggles. Is that not allowed? Is skiing at all popular there??? (yeah that last one is a bit satirical rhetorical)
I translated the law on Deepl (emphasis mine):
ok. its sounding more reasonable.
What's the official reason for that law?
The official reason is "in our culture we show each other our faces"
The real reason is "I'm racist and I hate muslims"
Source: am swiss. (I voted against this law.)
Are you Muslim or just dense?
It's called freedom. I don't like the custom and I'm not religious but forbidding others from practicing theirs isn't OK.
This is the work of right-wing conservatives making empty gestures to "protect traditional Christian families" instead of doing something useful. But fearmongering gets them easy votes and with an aging population, even easier to scare old grandma and grandpa with "Muslim invaders".
Who?
Swiss People's Party. But as a direct democracy, it means they've convinced/scared enough old folks to vote in favor of this, and the rest of us have to accept it.
The problem with this one in particular is that there was an unholy alliance between some misguided women's rights activists and the racists
That must be an odd match.
I understand the woman's right angle of it but I doubt its effectiveness. Religious patriarchs are just going to keep these women from going outside.
I meant who asked
Literally you.
Literally you.
My density is approximately 0.9 g/mL
I am Muslim and I am for the application of the punishment dictated by Sharia law for when a woman does not cover her hair:
::: spoiler (punishment) None! There is no punishment.
"But Iran is the best Muslim country implementing Islam to the letter!"
Nope. It's not. Their sect is hardly even considered Muslim by the Muslim majority. :::
I wonder if all the Muslims here saying "women should be dressing whatever they want", also protest the same in muslims countries where women are killed for not covering their hair.
Are you living under a rock? Haven't you seen the men protesting in Iran??
I haven't actually, do you have reliable sources on that?
https://www.cfr.org/article/photos-iran-mahsa-amini-protest-uprising-women
is this a joke or
A lot of these photos are from west europe.
but presumably you do see the severeral photos of protestors, including men, in the capital of iran regardless of what other pictures might also be on the page
Is this sarcasm?
The majority of people killed during the Iranian protests were men.
That said it is possible that the original commenter was being sarcastic.
Logic is the difference.
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan claim Sharia law is what they rule based on. You go to these countries you expect that to be the factor of what you can and cannot do.
Other countries? They say they are democratic and they claim freedom of choice, however, they decide to restrict something like face covering for no apparent reason. And that's the problem.
The logic also doesn't makes sense as it is not clear when and where people can and cannot ware face covering. The niqab is just a piece of cloth. Are we banning people from wearing masks and big massive sunglasses? Are we banning people from wearing a head scarf ?
Would a female waring a black face makeup and fake hair would be fined ? What about Clowns ?
What exactly the point if it doesn't affect other people?
For me all i see is that men deciding on e again what a woman should or shouldn't ware and in fact this makes it worse than a religion based countries who at least are not hiding their intentions.
A country telling women what to wear will be on the same page in my book as the country telling women what not to wear.
wear a face mask all the time then... cough cough COVID
Yea how can you ban face coverings in the covid times lol
I'd rather see swiss banks having to spill the beans about their many criminal enterprises and criminal customers. Tax evasion is a crime, for those unaware
Winter is gonna be fun, lol. Austria already implemented and rolled back a similar ban.
The article says there are exceptions, but doesn't provide any useful information unfortunately.
Don't worry. Its only for brown people.
They'll have a list of exceptions that basically means anyone but muslims.
It's still in force.
If female sexual agency is somehow shameful, while male sexual agency isn't, then this needs to be argued for with good reasons.
I myself reject any form of double standards.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
GENEVA (AP) — The lower house of Switzerland’s parliament voted Wednesday to give final legislative passage to a ban on face coverings, such as the burqas worn by some Muslim women.
It was pushed through by the right-wing, populist Swiss People’s Party, easily overcoming reticence expressed by centrists and the Greens.
The move follows a nationwide referendum two years ago in whch Swiss voters narrowly approved forbidding niqabs, which leave slits for the eyes, and burqas as well as ski masks and bandannas that are worn by some protesters.
With the lower house vote, parliament cemented the ban into federal law and set a fine of up to 1,000 francs (about $1,100) for violators.
Few women in Switzerland wear full face coverings like burqas, which are perhaps best known as garb worn in Afghanistan.
The national legislation will put Switzerland in line with countries such as Belgium and France that have enacted similar measures.
The original article contains 212 words, the summary contains 154 words. Saved 27%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Just in time for Halloween!
(Probably not a big thing in CHE)
Around where I live the people wearing full face coverings appear to be middle aged Asian women trying to protect their skin from the summer heat. Way to mess with their goal of eternal youth.
Guess the next Fasnacht is gonna see some changes, then.
Nope, there's an exception for "cultural events". And one for medical equipment. Pretty much everything beside being Muslim is excepted.
No one should be told what to wear. Besides, I like women in burqas because I like to know which ones are property of another man.
This has potential as a joke.
Started out so well and went downhill fast...
I'm tired of hearing about how America is a beacon of racism. This isn't the first western European country to do this.
If you read the article, they are banning basically anything that covers your face. Title is what it is to get people's reactions because of course it is.
And if you read the actual law (in German) basically any reason but being muslim is excempt.
The other big reason which isn't covered is privacy (in protests for example)...
But thanks for finding the law, you saved me some time. I'll just add the equivalent text in the Constitutition
So stick a coca cola sticker on your burqa, now its for advertising
I feel that everywhere a Muslim is likely to want to cover her face for religio-modesty reasons she is also likely to want to cover her face to protect herself and others from germs. Also to protect herself from damaging UV light.
I hope xenophobes everywhere hang their heads in shame.