DOJ sues eBay for selling ‘rolling coal’ devices; fines could hit $2 billion
Rolling coal is the practice of tampering with a vehicle's emissions control system, causing it to spew black clouds of sooty exhaust.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/11/doj-sues-ebay-for-rolling-coal-devices-fines-could-hit-2-billion.htmlOpen linkView original on kbin.social870
Comments174
Rolling coal is an extremely inefficient method of converting little dick energy into kinetic energy.
It's a great way to convert money into carbon soot though.
I hope this enforce to the point that all the assholes in my state that have rig thier trucks to do this can go to fucking jail or have their trucks and licenses revoked.
It's only illegal if it's enforced, and the people who roll coal are the same types of people that would enforce the rules.
Some of those that work forces are the same that spew carbon.
Climate in the change of.
Also reduce their lung capacity by 75%
Can we please actually enforce the rules on drivers though? These are so obviously illegal yet nothing is done.
Not many federal emission police out there to enforce it.
Cops pull people over for having something hanging from their rearview mirror. I would think they'd love to be ticketing people for having these things.
Some of those that work forces... roll coal?
Some of those that work forces
are the same that burn fossils
It's a federal emission standard though, not a state one. It's only illegal to do in New Jersey, Maryland and Maine. Every other state once you own it, you can install these devices, or do a EGR delete entirely if you want to. In states that do emission testing on private vehicles you'd want it to be reversible of course.
Cities have emission standards. Police could try harder if they wanted to.
That's true, beyond the health and environment aspects, they're obscuring visibility. While some people I talked to said "it's not toxic bro!" and they don't believe in climate change, they can't deny it obscures visibility.
Meanwhile In other countries they do just that
I don't speak German but I'm guessing they're ticketing/impounding vehicles that have modifications which violate emissions. Sometimes US cops to that to street racers... the problem is that's because the average officer doesn't like kids who modify Asian cars but they basically are the same demographic who would modify a truck.
As long as we're talking about that, the street racing and 'sideshow' thing is pretty out of control too. I'd be happy to see them step up enforcement on that bullshit.
I'm from Europe, but can't local police enforce federal laws?
Local police barely enforce local laws
Also true
Yes.
No, they can't unless the federal government specifically deputize the local cops, which would effectively make them federal police temporarily
Not true, local cops can arrest someone for a federal crime. For example, lately some PDs have decided to start enforcing immigration laws.
Not American, but isn't that a state by state decision, though?
States and local PDs can decide on policies, ie which crimes they want to arrest and which they will let the federal government enforce. For example some states have a policy of not enforcing federal marijuana laws. But this is just a matter of efficient use of resources. They always could arrest someone for a federal crime.
I see
They can.
Right the whole states' rights thing
Those vehicles should be impounded and converted into cubes on the spot by roaming hydraulic presses.
Ideally with the drivers inside
Fuck it, hit 'em hard. Been buying off eBay for 20-years, I like 'em. But this seems like a fine place to put our collective foot down and say, "No. You can't do that."
I was shafted by an Ebay seller who was nasty and awful. He acted like he was too stupid to understand why his item was not at all what I ordered. He had a 99.4% approval rating. I thought how the hell was that possible? I found out when I went to leave my negative rating and Ebay would not allow me to post the negative rating.
A seller shipped me a phone that was much worse than what I bought, and it wasn't even the same brand. I returned it. However, the seller wouldn't ship the right phone but still had the listing saying several were available. I couldn't leave a negative review, which makes no sense, and I reported it to ebay, but as of yet nothing has happened to the seller that I can tell.
It's really disappointing. I want an Amazon alternative, but it's tough if I'm going to have to go through this crap.
I use Swappa.com for all my used electronics. Been buying and selling randomly from them for years. They are starting to get big enough to have sellers that refurb stuff which kinda sucks. When they were smaller and only had normal people selling their extra/old equipment was much better.
Ah. So no alternative then. Got it.
Is this sarcasm? Half of the shit I get on aliexpress isn’t available anywhere else. Or if it is, it costs an order of magnitude more when buying from US reseller, who is just marking up inventory they bought from aliexpress.
We might just have to do without an alternative. I haven't ordered off of Amazon probably 5+ years now, and it's fine.
I'd think that would make eBay complicit in any scams they block negative reviews for.
They should probably go after Amazon as well.
Good. Why not ban those oversized SUVs while you're at it? They're a serious danger to children and they're not even good at hauling stuff!
Because the government is bought and owned by the car industry (as well as 20 other industries) yaaay!
The US is just three corporations in a trenchcoat pretending to be a country
Hard agree and also, because I love them but don't hear them getting nearly enough shit alongside us, Canada is just a resource extraction megacorp masquerading as a country.
I drive a Prius. Assholes "roll coal" when they drive next to me all the time. I don't even get it. They're not even giving me shit for having an electric car, they're giving me shit because I pay less for gas than they do.
No, it's because of their fragile ego.
Sure, but they do it specifically to Priuses. Electric cars too, but also Priuses and other hybrids. I've heard so from other hybrid owners and seen them do it too. It is definitely about their fragile ego, but I think it's also just because they're idiots.
They feel threatened because they think they'll be forced to drive a small hybrid one day. Which bothers then because, yeah... their fragile egos
Jesus H. Christ, these assholes are terrified of imaginary fascism and vote for real fascism...
Because my fascism where I fuck over people I don’t like is better than your fascism where you give me health care, clean air, and affordable education.
-the assholes
For some people it's literally easier to die than to challenge their preconceptions
One group’s martyr is another group’s idiot.
They love to try and get me on the motorcycle all the time.
It's happened to me and I just drive a small car. They're doing it to any vehicle that's not a fuckoff huge truck I guess
I think it's more that they are fucking dumbass pieces of shit.
I'm fortunate enough to be able to walk to and from work every day. These "roll coal" bastards just hate me for it. I think it must really chap their assess to see little ol' me bopping down the street listening to my tunes and not needing an emotional support truck the way they do.
Time for the ol' "Roll coal if your dick is tiny" sticker
If it's any consolation, the fact that they are modifying their trucks which are already enormously over priced and gas suckers to suck even MORE gas when they do this to you should hopefully provide some sort of satisfaction to you. I typically point and laugh at them.
Oh I'm aware and I do laugh at them. They just also baffle me.
Wait I thought people were just tampering to get higher performance or something, idk. But they're literally doing it to make the vehicle spew worse than it already does? Wtf and why? What is wrong with people?
Running the diesel engine extra rich so it vomits extra sooty exhaust instead of properly burned, cleaner exhaust, because they feel the need to compensate for their small member by annoying everyone else.
Since getting an electric car they've started cutting me off, brake checking me and then doing the soot farting thing. It's like they need to make up for my car's lack of tailpipe emissions in a way that really lets me know they're doing it.
It’s not LIKE that. It 100% IS that. That is the entire intended point of rolling coal.
That is one reason I debadged my Tesla.
(The other reasons are Elon Musk and also I think it looks better being totally smooth)
They see it as a "fuck you" to liberals/environmentalists.
Same here, giant jacked up white 4x4, the only thing missing was the trump flag. Othello neighborhood, obviously not a local.
Haha I grew up (sometimes, moved a lot but fam was from) near where Comiskey park was, 33rd & Emerald.
Yeah, saw the white shitroller, lifted, big wheels, lots of bumperstickers @ othello & mlk last week revving at the intersection then rolling coal over people @ the light rail station. If I had an AT4 at that moment, I'd probably be in jail now.
Honestly, that's how I read it, so message received. It's not the sort of thing you say or do if you're trying to win friends and influence people, though.
Some folks are, but their goal is to not spew a bunch of black smoke because black smoke means incomplete combustion, which in turn means less power than they could've had if they'd managed to shove more air in.
"Rolling coal" is an entirely different thing based purely on idiocy and spite.
It looks tuff, bro!
The worst thing is the people who intentionally spew Priuses (back when they were the only semi-electric cars around) and bicycles with soot, as some sort of "fuck you for trying to not pollute, hur hur" thing.
Because it lets the world know how MAGA you are.
Those types of tuners also exist, and depending on the tune they can actually in some cases slightly improve fuel economy (depending on driving style). I tuned my Audi A3 to "Stage 1+" and actually have seen slightly better fuel economy doing highway driving to which I attribute the new ECU/TCU tunes allowing me to stay in gear longer during acceleration I guess?
A lot of germans disable their EGR-system to increase reliability.
The smoke is a symptom of over-fueling a diesel which does actually make more power, all else being equal.
A little smoke is a symptom of making more power. A lot of smoke just means you failed to add enough air to go with it and are pointlessly polluting and wasting fuel.
(Side note: my diesel VW, which is modified for more power but also is typically fueled with 100% biodiesel, produces less smoke than it did stock.)
To a point. After that you're just making more smoke, and washing out the cylinders, drastically reducing the engine's life. I take some consolation in the fact that most of the bros rolling coal will absolutely not be able to afford a replacement engine once they trash theirs.
1 in 100 are children who do it to "own the libs" the rest do it because it increases fuel efficiency and power.
Power maybe. Fuel efficiency, no.
Fuel efficiency yes. These newer diesel motors go into dpf mode around 300 miles to burn off any diesel soot. Which in turn uses more diesel and tanks the fuel economy. I get why some guys do it especially when the egr system goes up. But rolling coal is fucking stupid. Terrible on the motor too.
Not sure it's specifically eBay that should get the fine here, it should be the sellers ON eBay.
Agreed. Nobody wants the eBay police, but sellers and buyers should be the ones held accountable.
Yes exactly. No online platform can catch 100% of prohibited activity. They are punishing the wrong people. What they should do is get a list of all the ones eBay missed, file charges against the seller and start knocking on buyer's doors. Or maybe send some agents in an undercover Prius to pull them over and issue a fine when they get coal rolled. That would send a pretty clear message that eBay is not a safe place to purchase these items.
so, you are right and wrong, due to the structure of the American legal system those DIRECT at fault are fines/sued first, then they are supposed to turn around and file a suit for damages against the next party down the line, so eBay should sue the seller.
same thing in motor vehicle incidents, if a car A and B are waiting in traffic and car C rearends car B to the point it hits car A, the man in car A is supposed to sue the guy in car B who then sues the guy in car C for damages
well, it's how the law works
So ebay, who profited from the sale of these devices, shouldn't be held accountable?
Did ebay stop any listings for these devices? It seems like if they were trying to stop this market, they would have stopped some number above zero, right?
Try selling a human limb on ebay and see how quickly your listing is removed, not that I'm bitter or anything.
edit: it kinda seems like they were trying to be compliant.
You're responsible for what people on your platform do.
Here I thought the modern internet is able to exist because platforms specifically are not responsible for what its users do.
It's illegal for imgur to host illegal images I can see why eBay would be responsible for people selling illegal items.
Imgur hosts the images vs eBay only hosts the information, the sellers ship the product to the buyer
big thing about Ebay is they often also process the transactions
Very good point.
Hosting is hosting and images are information.
Imgur has to take down the illegal image when requested to do so. Imgur isn't charged for having a user upload an illegal image.
This is the part that bothers me too. Assuming they haven't been asked to remove them already that is.
To a point, I suspect that applies to speech things, not necessarily physical items.
But that's a good question, I don't know where the line lies.
the line lies where you start harming other people (and their habitat), that's literally the definition.
your freedom ends where my freedom begins
Yeah but what if I'm an idiot redneck then other people aren't allowed freedoms. Only me.
Hmm. While I agree generally, your response seems a little vague. Definition of...? Freedom?
I'm saying I wonder where, formally, a company goes from being an information platform, to something else. That's the very point at which ebay started becoming liable for what people did on their systems.
They're not just hosting pictures, they're selling real-world items to circumvent laws in a visibly annoying way. People in CA get away with uncovered high intensity off-road aux lights because nobody's really abused them.
Coal-rollers like being obvious, stinky dickheads, hence the crackdown on both sales and installations.
Sort of. They essentially have to be given the opportunity to take corrective action but if they don't then they get fine. Or indeed other things depending on the severity of what's happening.
See Reddit and all the subs they were eventually forced to shut down.
While you're right, they do also have extensive KYC checks in place for this reason.
And that's hardly a good thing either.
If someone sells cocaine on eBay does ebay get fined? How about illegal porn?
Please crack down on rolling coal in general. If you were to put it in the context of the shopping cart theory, it would be shoving your cart directly into someone else's car.
It's the sheer waste that gets me - not just the fuck you tiny dick bullshit of spewing your effluence onto people intentionally, no, they need to waste fucking shittons of petrol or diesel to do it MEANWHILE THE WORLD IS FUCKING BURNING. The fucking amazon dried up, what more evidence do they need?
Of course, if evidence swayed them, if they had half a fucking brain they'd never try this shit in the first place. But you know what's worse than the stupids running the planet into meltdown?
The rest of us let them. Even wildly stupid bullshit like this.
Check your state but there might be a number you can call to report it. Mine has one and I have done it.
I call 9x19 when some dipshit rolls coal.
Should be allowed to drag the coal-roller out of their truck and murder them on the spot. It's self defense.
Lmao, don't do this but I find your comment extremely amusing. Fuck coal rollers, they should have their entire vehicle confiscated at the very least
Know what goes good with a fresh tank of diesel fuel? Water, gas, eggs, anything liquid and not-diesel, really.
This has got to be this most pathetic chapter in the American saga.
Fun fact. My workplace added recycle bins to the breakroom a few years ago. The day after, HR had to call a facility-wide emergency meeting to explain that their use was voluntary only and that no workers would be required to use them.
Grown ass adults lost their shit because they saw a recycle bin.
Stop it. Are you serious?
Yes, I am serious. Folks around here can be aggressively reactionary and will blow up over nothing (or what should be nothing).
I moved to this area about 12 years ago. I wasn't expecting some huge culture shock, but there it was. I had educated, millennial colleagues who were openly homophobic at work. I could go on with a list of grievances, but it just feels like piling on and I don't have the option to get out.
JFC I’m sorry things are this way. That is crazy.
And this is why homeschooling and hate speech should be illegal, and assault legalized against certian people
DOJ infringing on my god-given rights to own the libs per usual
The libs are owned by my blue flag!!
I've been coal rolled and driven off the road as a recreational cyclist on rural, lonely roads. The last time I felt safe cycling on the road was 5 years ago?
Seems like the entire Western world is dealing with a rise in anti-social behaviour on the roads since the pandemic started.
Honestly things have gotten so much worse IMO, most drivers are not paying attention and I've been almost smooshed a few times. Slowing down and trying to stay out of cars' way can only do so much...
The ones that force past only to pull over or turn 5 seconds later are the worst examples of impatience I've seen on the road in years ☹️
When you catch up to the smogmobile that went into the wrong lane to pass you ten minutes later at a stoplight...
Could have been worse. A 16 year old here in Texas ran over 6 cyclists while trying to roll coal on them. 2 had to be airlifted:
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/waller-bicyclists-hit-truck-teen-driver-ironman-16490862.php
https://www.bicycling.com/news/a37808647/texas-driver-assaults-six-cyclists/
Edit: the last update from the Law Firm representing the cyclists:
https://www.bikelaw.com/2021/11/felony-charges-for-waller-driver/
Holy shit. This kid will probably not see jail and will be driving again in a year or two because his weapon of choice was a car.
Yup. Montana drivers will hunt down cyclists and run them over, if not roll coll on them until they choke and fall over. Love this place!
Shit like this is the reason why I ditched the bike and got a car. The infrastructure is woefully inadequate for biking; more often than not you have to share the road with these idiots instead of having your own dedicated lane. Furthermore, I had way too many near death experiences. I never want to ride a bike in the US ever again.
If they market them as intentionally modified, then probably criminal case can be opened against them.
🧎
Sometimes? What are the more common reasons?
It's also used to assault cyclists for the crime of existing
From that perspective, I’d rather get rolled coal than doored.
To look like you're an impressive person with a big, strong truck that is so powerful it can't help but not spew lung-destroying emissions. They're just cosplaying truckers.
i’d probably read the sometimes as applying to environmental protest rather than the practice… as in there are other forms of environmental protests, and this is one that is sometimes used
the emission systems reduce the power and fuel efficiency. removing or bypassing emission systems means they burn less fuel and get more power.
Fud
If you rolled coal expect to be held down and repeatedly kicked in the crotch at the inevitable climate induced apocalypse.
People who drive those stupid fucking lifted trucks from the thumbnail regardless of whether or not they rolled coal will probably be next in line.
Can you imagine the CIA hunting down climate terrorists the same way Mossad hunts down Nazis in South America?
The article had a video and I could only stand watching it for a couple of seconds. It started with a Russian sounding guy saying they were going to show why a Prius is dangerous to the environment. Then, they showed people laughing as they rolled coal at electric car drivers.
Is that their argument? "Electric cars are dangerous to the environment because people driving electric cars make me spew tons of smoke into the atmosphere"?
What's next? "You recycled your can. That's bad for the environment because that forced me to spill this toxic waste into a playground. All those kids got sick and it's all your fault for recycling!!!"
But the LIB's got owned, didn't they.... fucking losers
I didn't even know this was a thing - impressively stupid and dangerous on the open road.
You just described the modern conservative:
Impressively stupid and dangerous.
Having lived in a handful of states, I've only seen it in one of them: Virginia. I suspect it's more of an Appalachian or southern thing in general, however.
Nah, they're in Oregon and Washington too
Oregon Territory was originally founded as a whites-only ethnostate, and (outside of a few large cities, like Portland and Seattle) it shows.
Rural Oregon gives the deep south a run for its money
And California, Florida, Missouri, Mississippi, Iowa, and Kentucky Source: me being in those states and seeing it happen, all within the last 5 years
Hm. I used to live in Oregon and live in Washington now but have been fortunate enough not to encounter these types.
Nope, they're everywhere. Stupidity has few limits...
You see it a lot in Utah, unfortunately.
Fuck yea, take ebay for all their worth and publish the customer logs so we can deal with the customers the old fashioned way.
SPAM and robocalls?
If by SPAM you mean hurling salty meat chunks, and by robocalls you mean the T-1000 making a house call.
Dial 9x19 for more information.
Yea totally that.
That is fantastic news seeing as the EPA won't do shit when you send them video.
Send it to your local PTA. might be more effective.
If anyone is curious some states have a number you can use to report it. I keep it in my phone contacts and when I see it I tell them the license plate number.
I never realized they sold devices to do this. Everyone I know just removes the emission system, AKA "EGR delete".
Even as a car guy and a pro-ICE cars, I agree 100% with this. These rolling coal trucks are just cringe, and literally a waste of fuel. I can't say I care about the climate but I also hate the ones who fuck the climate as much as 50x the amount a normal human does, on purpose just because "fuck the climate".
You sound like a terrible person.
Just out of curiosity, what makes you not care about the climate? Is it some sort of fatalistic "we got 20 good years left, so might as well enjoy them" kinda deal?
Isn’t “rolling coal” slang for gay sex?
as a gay man, not as far as i’m aware
and if you’re trying to make a joke because the people that do this are likely homophobes and would hate to be associated with gay sex, i’d ask please don’t… that, in itself, is unintentionally homophobic because it implies gay sex is derogatory
Sorry I wasn’t intending on implying that. Meant to make the homophobes the butt of the jokes (and a slight inspiration from Arrested Development’s “shoveling coal” although it doesn’t mention being gay at all, just an implication of a sex act). The people who roll coal don’t care about doing things for the right reasons, so maybe they’ll do the right thing for the wrong reason (don’t roll coal bc they don’t wanna be gay). Worked for roller blading (although ofc there wasn’t anything wrong with that)
You know I appreciate the fact that you made a joke and it didn't land and instead of getting upset or responding negatively, you addressed it appropriately. I think that's one thing that I really love about this place versus reddit is that it actually feels like a bunch of adults having a conversation.
Yeah, I suppose you’re right, but it would have been so satisfying to play back their own insecurities.
As a non-gay man, I got a huge kick out of all the gay guys taking back “proud boys” a few years back
It doesn't, but to them it is.
Using their insults against them doesn't make you smarter than them, it makes you just like them.
Don't be like them. Don't sink to their level. It's not a good place to be.
No it doesn't.
That's pushing coal.
Does it mean USSR was gay sex country?
Context: in USSR coal mining was honorable job
Oh yeah, Russians love pushing coal. You know all those Russians that Putin has had killed over the years, poisoning, shot out of the sky, stuff like that? It wasn't because of political reasons, they were his ex lovers.
His ex lovers have huge mansions and all that stuff