Spyke

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26 replies

lemmy.world

he is in charge no? he is the reason they are rioting. he better hold himself to account

21
jlai.lu

He is 100% responsible for everything that happened there.

11
iktreply
aussie.zone

They are rioting because of poor quality schools and not enough teachers

This is the most piss weak reason I've seen to riot ever

If they really wanted to fight the source of the problem they'd be throwing rocks at retirement villages as they're the ones soaking up all the funds right now... and yet they're mad the pension age was reduced???

The French are basically angry there isn't unlimited money to spend, entitled, spoiled, delusional

-24
jlai.lu

What the fuck are you even on about ? Leave retirees alone. Most of them are living under the poverty line. A handful of them are extremely rich, but that's about it.

There's also literally nothing these people can do about that. It's the government's fault, no one else's. 10 years of policies all aimed to make rich people richer, cutting everything left and right, except the military and corporate handouts.

The kids have rats in the classrooms, literal fucking rats. In the summer they have 40+ degrees in there, and not enough chairs and toilet paper for everyone. It's the same in all our public services and that's just the tip of the iceberg. We have poverty levels higher than 30 years ago, people can't afford to eat, to go to the doctor, to heat their homes.

We riot because our most basic rights are being trampled and fucked with. We tried talking, voting, being peaceful about it, and the only answers we got were disdain, more and more institutional violence, and the goddamn riot police. You should probably learn a thing or two, instead of licking the boot on your neck.

10
iktreply
aussie.zone

What the fuck are you even on about ? Leave retirees alone. Most of them are living under the poverty line. A handful of them are extremely rich, but that’s about it.

🤣

They are poor and living under the poverty line 😭

Delusional!

Why French pensioners pocket more than workers

A generous state pension and early retirements are contributing to a €3.4 trillion national debt and growing economic crisis in France, writes Jack Simpson

https://www.thetimes.com/money/article/why-french-pensioners-pocket-even-more-than-workers-j9z9l3zrp

The French economy has a boomer problem and is spending way too much on pensions

Before resigning from his nine-month stint as French prime minister, François Bayrou had claimed that if France failed to cut its public deficit, young people would pay the price “for the sake of the comfort of boomers”.

Now there's a choice quote chefs kiss mwa!

https://theconversation.com/the-french-economy-has-a-boomer-problem-and-is-spending-way-too-much-on-pensions-264912

It shows that 32% of the education ⁠ministry’s budget, or €28.5 billion ($32 billion), ends up with the special pension account that ​funds state civil servants' pensions.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/french-ministries-pension-costs-crowd-out-public-services-spending-report-says-2026-10-13/

Your pensions are fucking you, EVERYONE saw this coming and apparently you decided to do nothing about it except increase immigration massively and then riot for more government handouts

It’s the government’s fault, no one else’s.

Oh really? Last I saw people were protesting to reduce the pension back DOWN from 62 to 60, that is INSANITY

Government spending remains well above its peers in the politically sensitive realm of social protections, particularly pensions and healthcare, while tepid economic growth has failed to compensate.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/10/13/france-2027-budget-debt.html

10 years of policies all aimed to make rich people richer, cutting everything left and right, except the military and corporate handouts.

LOL, you have the highest government spending in the west!

Government spending in France was last recorded at 57.2 percent of GDP in 2025 . Government Spending to GDP in France averaged 54.16 percent of GDP from 1978 until 2025, reaching an all time high of 61.70 percent of GDP in 2020 and a record low of 45.20 percent of GDP in 1978. source: EUROSTAT

You are in late stage socialism, cannot spend money you do not have

The kids have rats in the classrooms, literal fucking rats.

This is a completely valid reason to protest, you seem to be attacking the wrong source of the problem, france fucking failed to predict that... old people would get old... and “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”, can't believe we saw this coming only 50 years ago...

Anyway good luck, I'm sure it's 100% entirely the governments fault and has nothing to do with the people at all, you're innocent

make sure to blame capitalism as well, that'd be a cherry on top

-11
jlai.lu

That's a fuckton of bullshit to unpack and I don't have time for that. Apparently you know our politics better than we do. I'll just go quickly over your points

  • Bayrou is a former prime minister, vastly responsible for the current situation.
  • Macron caters to the retirees because the vote for him en masse.
  • We have a revenue problem, we can fix it with a multitude of ways that the government refuses to even consider.
  • Our spending is high but stable and has been somewhat stable for the past 50 years, like your source shows. It's the revenues that have made a complete nosedive, thanks to Macron.
  • With proper taxation and redistribution we can largely afford to keep our retirement age at 60. Yes, the system needs to change to make it fair for everyone, and that will include cutting spending for richer retirees. But in no way raising retirement age is an absolute necessity.
  • And you seem to have been caught in the classic propaganda of the average pension. The average is an absolutely worthless metric here, we do have a handful of extremely high pensions paid, but the median pension is barely enough to survive for most people.

And I can't believe that someone in 2026, would unironically use a fucking Thatcher quote about socialism. Her, Reagan and Keynes are the reason we're in this fucking mess worldwide.

Proper wealth redistribution is key to a functional society, and France saw its portion of millionaires and billionaires explode in the past 10 years, while every single one of our public services crumbles, and poverty explodes. We have departments without clean drinking water for fucks sake. Capitalism cannot work if everyone wins.

9

Apparently you know our politics better than we do

I spend too much time researching things and France is a uniquely entertaining putain! merci beaucoup! I waste many hours reading about it

Bayrou is a former prime minister, vastly responsible for the current situation.

He was only in for like 3 months wasn't he? Macron's failed snap election fuck up gave rise to what is uniquely french, 3 incompetent political parties ruining your country all at once! :D I loved it how you couldn't agree on budget cuts, left and right kept joining up to delete prime ministers, so dumb :D

I will try to be short but essentially you are not addressing the core issue, I've seen other french people doing this same dance, you always seem to avoid the harsh reality that you cannot spend what you don't have

Proper wealth redistribution

You've tried it before, remember how well it went?

“The reform clearly damaged France’s reputation and competitiveness,” said Jorg Stegemann, the head of the executive search firm Kennedy Executive. “It clearly has become harder to attract international senior managers to come to France than it was.”

Finance ministry studies showed that despite all the publicity, the sums obtained from the supertax were meagre, standing at €260m in 2013 and €160m in 2014, and affecting 1,000 staff in 470 companies. Over the same period, the budget deficit soared to €84.7bn.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

etcetc

https://qz.com/279900/a-short-history-of-frances-battles-over-taxing-the-wealthy

etcetc

You are but one country that has tried many times to tax the rich to save the country, most of the time the country has to give up and simply reduce spending somehow

A bit like: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-08-18/ndis-changes-pass-after-labor-strikes-deal-with-coalition/107051964

The Coalition voted with Labor in the Senate on Tuesday evening to pass the sweeping changes, which are intended to curb the structural bloat of a scheme that costs more than $50 billion annually.

The overhaul is expected to save an estimated $37.8 billion over the next four years alone.

We are also going into debt so we are reducing our outgoings, this is how a normal government functions

It appears that France has largely covered its eyes for the last 40 years instead

With proper taxation and redistribution we can largely afford to keep our retirement age at 60. Yes, the system needs to change to make it fair for everyone, and that will include cutting spending for richer retirees. But in no way raising retirement age is an absolute necessity.

Most pension ages around the world are going up based on the simple economics

More older people = higher government costs (pensions/healthcare)

Less young people = lower government income (less workers/less tax)

Not a complicated scenario but apparently the french are unique and know something we all don't

Our spending is high but stable and has been somewhat stable for the past 50 years,

High and Stable and also unsustainable !

-6
sh.itjust.works

You seem to be confused. You think money is what constrains an economy rather than resources and productive capacity. How do you think money is added to the economy?

2
iktreply
aussie.zone

You seem to be confused. What made you think that I said anything about "money is what constrains an economy", I have strictly been speaking about government spending.

-4

How is money added to the economy?

What gives money its value?

You need to be able to answer these questions or you have no place talking about economics.

1
BeatLreply
pawb.social

Listen here, for a minute, just a bit, i just wanna offer to you why they are doing this.

This is what they want. The poorer the neighborhood, the more this is true in a country with a slogan like " liberty, equality, fraternity"

  • in winter, classes go down to 8°C, in summer 35°c. How can they study?
  • they do not have enough chairs and tables, some students have to stay up, or sit on the floor. How can they take note?
  • Schools are crumbling down, it is literally unsafe and unsanitary. wtf france ?
  • They do not have enough teachers. It is common that if the math teacher is in maternity leaves or is in burnout it is not replaced for periods up to 6 months. Wtf, how can you learn anything ?
  • parcoursup is a semi-automated system that allows or not someone to have access to university. It is racist, stupid and no one can explain how it works or what to do to be ranked higher. A student famously submitted a brownie recipe and got accepted. wtf ?

So ok, the situation is criminal. Politics make budgets cuts on a génération future in a cut troat job market. They are protesting and they are right. About violence, they send letters, videos, journalists, unions, syndicats, rapports, they manifested peacefully for years on end. You only hear of it because they burned a trashcan and the media love "violence". Some lost eyes, hands and teeth. You cannot slap your child in france. But you can have police force boxing them, running through them with a car and tears gazing while they are sitting peacefully. They do not even block the road, they cannot vote or strike, they block the place where they cannot study because they cannot study and they are right and repressed for that.

I am proud of them.

Oh and for the lack of money, it is a political decision too. More than 5% of PIB go to enterprises. Most of them are not regulated or tied to any conditions. For example sanofi got a lot of help to keep jobs in research. They got the money, and then, cut all the jobs based on research. It is not an isolated story. Billionaires got 50% richer in 10 years so for the poor billionaires, they removed a tax on wealth. something like 1% of your personal wealth (no enterprises). Another thing, entreprises income were taxed by 50% in 1985. In 2022, it is 25%. For war, papal coming or entreprises, they money is here. For schools, hospital, firefighting, poverty fighting or ecology nothing.

Sorry, it is a bit long. You can feel my rage and resentment in this text. You do whatever, i will not change you. I m just feeling lost. So are they, kids are not alright and we know it. The futur is shit. In France 1/3 have recurrent and lasting suicide thought and 1/7 tried to end their life. They do not even have 18 years old. When you listen to them they are not stupid, they speak very well, though are well organized and what do they tell us and we don't listen?

  • rich are getting richer and poor poorer, it is not normal,
  • there is a genocide in gaza and they are treated as if they are crazy ones for telling that.
  • We will reach the worst 2050 ecology scenario in 2030, and when people say that, they add, "i hope the younger generation will do something". DO SOMETHING NOW AND AT LEAST LET THEM PROTEST THEN !
  • Rise of fascism and far right by television, young and not only them sing "we are all antifascist" They want hope and a futur, they will have war and inequality.
5
iktreply
aussie.zone

I am aware of France, I have been keeping an eye on it for years, I think your left wing party france unbowed with jean luck melonhead is one of the dumbest most fiscally stupid politicians I have ever seen and Le Pen is a coward for trying to reduce the pension back down to 60, it is idiotic, your pensions are well off enough as it is

The core of the issue is that your pensions and healthcare and state aid is too high, you are asking for too much BUT YET you quite rightly point out that the education system is falling apart

This is not because you have too little state aid, as above your governments spending is sky high, it's where the government spending is going:

It shows that 32% of the education ⁠ministry’s budget, or €28.5 billion ($32 billion), ends up with the special pension account that ​funds state civil servants' pensions.

"The Ministry of Finance has just dropped a real bombshell," ​economist Maxime Sbaihi with think tank Institut Montaigne said on X.

"In the midst of a day of protest, France has learnt that a third of the budget allocated to the national education system ​does not actually go towards education," he added.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/french-ministries-pension-costs-crowd-out-public-services-spending-report-says-2026-10-13/

The other stuff about Gaza etc I don't care for

-9
BeatLreply
pawb.social

I thank you for your reading and critique.

I do not think asking for basic education in a country such as france is too much. I believe that it is the least, the absolute bare minimum. The seventh largest economic power cannot provide teachers to students ? It is too much to ask for it ? i feel that at least strange.

So we are kinda agreeing that it is where the money goes to what that is the heart of the problem. Here goes politics.

i do not want to assume your position, i m pretty left. i do not have the feeling that talking about equality among humans, solidarity and cooperation, class struggle and genocide will be important for you. Not that you don't care at all.

However, economics seems important to you, ok. Far-right Le Pen showed in a quite funny press conference their plan to make 15.1 billions of economy by fighting immigration. The details of the plan are absolutely absent. To a journalist asking for details because the same plan from last year was 13 billion he answered "i do not have the details but the numbers are solids" And watching the Medef debate, whatever billionaires said will be their plan.

Macron made a 10 year term. To the debt he added 1000 billion. Yet schools, hospitals, public services, roads are in worse shape than ever. Where did the money go? He assumes "une politique de l'offre", a political position favoring offer rather than demand. Which from any political point of view sounds stupid? An enterprise does not create jobs. It tries to create the least jobs possible to keep increasing margin and profit. If a pencil factory suddenly floods the market of its pencil, the price falls, or simply doesn't sell. You just give money to the rich... because? Sanofi cut jobs it received money to keep. No consequences. If you have another view on that, please, you will genuinely really make me happy.

Leftist Jean-luc Melonhead (love the term) sees things differently. He sees an importance in ecology and housing prices. There is a demand. By spending in ecology, you create jobs because you will need skilled worker to adapt france. You create jobs and you have direct materials conditions. More houses, more renewable electricity, insulated houses, more teachers.

Macron just makes the rich richer in a zombie economy without improving public infrastructure, lives, comfort in any way. Quite the opposite. In the end nothing will stay.

55% of gdp is by popular consumption, Melonhead proposal to increase salaries is a way to increase economic well being, consumption and government money because taxes are proportional to your revenue.

The difference between a high and low revenue. Is the ability to accumulate wealth. Poor receive and immediately spend. they contribute 100% of their wealth to the economy. Rich have the same living basic need as the poor (they are all humans) yet, they prefer to keep it for themself. To accumulate without limit to absurd numbers. They contribute the less to the economy. If billionaires become the poorest millionaire. He will live exactly the same life.

And i am back to politics in general. Because democracy is the expression of the need of the majority. What peoples want ? Good education, houses, healthcare, that after breaking your back in a life of labour, you can finally live old and broken but in peace.

I love that women have the right to vote, work and acces to the bank. I love weekend, i love that a day of work is 8 hours not 16. I love that children go to school not in the mines. I love that healtcare is accessible to everyone. If you can easily end suffering, would you do it ? I think so. France had all thoses right by violently protesting, national strike and fighting. Violence is forcing children to study in conditions that are detrimental to their health and future in a country that abandoned healthcare. Violence is repressing mostly calm legitimate protest while claming to be tolerant country.

At the end of the day, it serve no purpose to be against the right of others. You are thoses others.

I am quite sorry xD at the end in my politics everything is linked, values included. I thank you for your answer. And i believe you see the problem in my reasoning, please express it for i do not know. And i wanna learn.

2
iktreply
aussie.zone

Far-right Le Pen showed in a quite funny press conference their plan to make 15.1 billions of economy by fighting immigration. The details of the plan are absolutely absent.

Yes, you currently have 3 clown shows at once, maybe even 4 if you include the french people (sorry)

I was just reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_strikes_in_France

The main grievances for the railway workers were the loss of the right to retire at age 55

1 MILLION people protesting for this craziness!

In 1995 french people protested and demanded the right to retire at 55 knowing that in 30 years (2025!) you'd STILL be paying those same workers (who haven't worked since 1995!) and those who are now 86+ are STILL being paid since 1995 all the way through till today despite not working!

Even worse, they are being paid more than they made when they were working, you see the issue?

More older people = higher government costs (pensions/healthcare)

Less young people = lower government income (less workers/less tax)

Where is all this money to pay the pensioners supposed to come from?

Meanwhile in Australia 3 years earlier:

The 1992 Superannuation Guarantee landed roughly 19 years before the first baby boomers hit 65 in 2011, and about 30 years before peak ageing pressure. The World Bank effectively endorsed Australia's three-pillar model as world's best practice in its 1994 report Averting the Old Age Crisis. (Treasury, Parliamentary Library)

Every pay some of our money goes towards a 'super fund', they invest the money, and then when we are 67 and retire we get all the investment money back so we don't rely on the government and pension (and even still our pensions are still massive! the biggest part of our budget as well!)

Rich have the same living basic need as the poor (they are all humans) yet, they prefer to keep it for themself

That's not true, that's a fairy tale :P

They do investment with it, the build factories, invest in startups, invest in the stock market, send it over to America and invest in their companies :P

To the debt he added 1000 billion. Yet schools, hospitals, public services, roads are in worse shape than ever. Where did the money go?

Ask the pensioners :P

You create jobs and you have direct materials conditions. More houses, more renewable electricity, insulated houses, more teachers.

Right but you don't get back 100% of the returns, so Melonhead says lets invest 1 billion into housing! Great! How much is the government getting back in taxes? 30% 40%? maybe even 50%? but this does not pay down their spending or the debt (it makes it worse)

So as you cannot spend money you do not have and now with your debt problem you cannot borrow money either without pain he will increase taxes even further:

The revenue proposals represent an all-out assault on wealth and capital. The plan includes a climate-focused wealth tax raising 10 billion euros, elimination of the flat tax on capital gains worth 9 billion, a Zucman tax on ultra-high-net-worth individuals generating 15 billion, increased inheritance taxes yielding 20 billion, and the removal of tax exemptions worth 22 billion. Additional levies would target cryptocurrencies, excess profits, technology giants, financial transactions, and share buybacks.

https://newsfire.gr/en/french-flee-as-melenchon-unveils-radical-2027-budget-plan/

a Zucman tax on ultra-high-net-worth individuals generating 15 billion, increased inheritance taxes yielding 20 billion, and the removal of tax exemptions worth 22 billion.

Wow! This will generate 57 billion dollars! Amazing!

DEBT INTEREST PAYMENTS State expenditure on interest payments on the public debt in 2026 61 995 943 958 €

https://horloge-de-la-dette-publique.com/en/debt-clock-france-national-debt-real-time/

So this will not even pay for 1 year of interest on your current debt, let alone the other 3.6 TRILLION Euros of debt and even better, it will piss everyone who is rich off, they will not hang around to pay all this money out, they will move

Fiscal stimulus (like during covid) can be good to starve off a recession but someone has to pay the bill sooner or later, and that is coming soon for France, I will try to watch your election live, it will be very interesting!

I am quite sorry xD at the end in my politics everything is linked, values included.

We have the same thing in Australia, our Labor party was part of those values, I also appreciate those values but at this point it feels like we have gone beyond the basics (women can vote) and now it is into madness (the government should pay me money for half my life)

-5

I thank you for your answers,

I kinda understand, on the debt part. I am quite bored. I feel like i will answer the same thing again and again. Capitalism is wasteful due to accumulation. Spending go to war and rich instead of public good. Pension included. Debt can be cancelled, money is already not connected to anything. The debt from the EU bank is non-existent money.

Fuck, planet burn, we are slaves. Working all day for pity wages does not make you free. You can feed people for free for so little money and work

Whatever politics do, starving people while some are stupidly rich is stupid. Food is getting expensive, farmers are often below the poverty wage. Who gets the money ? Distributor center, so working in a distributor center has decent wages ? No silly ! The value he gets by buying low, selling high and underpaying workers goes to the guy who owns the company. So he can be happy while millions are skipping meals. This injustice makes me rage.

No amount of debt or anything will change that fact. If debt is so so important why the fuck macron added 1000 billions while giving tax break to already rich peoples! How is that possible!

It will be the same as always ! Make the poor pay disguised in pretty words. And in the end, a country cannot go to bankeroute, it does have assets for sale, an army for example. Hey poor, go kill each other, the armament industry needs some reason to get some cash flow. It actively participate to a genocide, killing children, mother and father that are civilian? shhh, it will drop the stock, do not use the term genocide.

I am sorry, but when a nation is incapable of giving fucking basic education to its children, taking care of the poor. When a nation willingly makes everyone more miserable, It has no right to exist !

Give me food and a place. It can be shared, it doesn't matter, it is already the case as young people will not own anything. I will take care of the elderly, i will teach young people for free ! We already do so for less than a place to sleep and food. Off with the middle man!

Pensioners do that already ! All those who are still able, work. Often for free. They work because they can help others. Because it is an activity. Productivity is through the roof these days. To maintain our civilization, we could fucking work three hours a day. And do so much more !

I am sorry. This expression of rage will make reading more difficult. Capitalism was a system of sharing value. Accumulation, everything as a commodity and private property make anything more miserable.

Some economies, in dire circumstances, printed a best before date on bills. You could not accumulate, you would need to spend. It worked incredibly well. But as soon as things get better. accumulation was ok again. In dire time, enterprise tax on gain was 90% in france. Oh dire time ahead, better tax thoses rich. Yeah yeah yeah, It will not change everything, but could you imagine that only the zucman taxe and such will bring 57 Billions ! 15 billion with not even taxing 2% of their wealth!By year ! If they leaves, it stay during 5 years. Imagine how much money could be recovered in fiscal paradise ! You are right ! Jean luc Melonhead is on to something.

1
sopuli.xyz

What else to expect? The people can suffer but the status quo must be uphold.

12
iktreply
aussie.zone

How is rioters looting regular businesses and shops helping the people not suffer?

-6

I like civil unrest as much as you but France has been ignoring the fundamental problems for decades. The social state the people strived for has been slowly eroded and, like in many other countries, those who have more than they need laugh while those who are trying to make a decent living suffer. And I'm not thinking about small shop owners as you mention. The french at general are just less shy to show their discontent in an unfiltered fashion. I sincerely hope they put fear into the politians. France is Europe's barometer. If things get out of hand there, the entire EU follows.

9
OwOarchistreply
pawb.social

"regular businesses and shops" are part of it. Part of what's making the people suffer. They clamor for deregulation, tax breaks, and austerity measures just as much as the big businesses.

3

For some reason, I didn't get an alert on your reply.

How much leverage has the independently owned business? The gap between a small shop that perhaps makes three or four hundred thousand a year and a large chain store in enormous. Just considering that most small stores rent their spaces while chains usually own their spaces makes a fundamental difference. Then there is profit margins, operation costs, etc. The average small shop owner gets suffocated by beaurocracy, which is very bad to foment the creation of new endeavours.

There is, regardless, a staunch difference between beaurocracy and deregulation. Adequate regulation protects and upholds small businesses and is (should be!) geared to elevate them, not to stiffle them, which happens nearly every and anywhere.

I'm in Portugal and the requisites to open any small business are nearly maddening. People need a lot of money upfront just to get through the beaurocracie and get taxed more in comparable terms with larger businesses.

1

You reached the end