At my relatively small college with fewer than a dozen majors, by far the most insufferably slimy people there were the students majoring in business and management, as well as the program's instructing staff. The engineering, science, math, and humanities students were many times more genuine and pleasant.
When I was younger (like late 20s), I remember watching an infomercial about the power of trading stocks. It was a "CD/DVD kit" where they teach you how to make money trading penny stocks and shit like that.
I remember talking about it with a co-worker and he said something like, "If they really made all that money, why would they have to sell the kit?"
My response was, "Maybe they want other people to know how to do it to."
That conversation lives rent free in my brain because I realized years later that that's what business school is: a bunch of people telling people how to run a business profitably. If they could make money doing it, they wouldn't be teaching it.
I know that's not what business school is but damn the analogy still fits.
If you ever want to see ridiculous levels of mismanagement, just have a look at any business school. All the most trendy techniques and analytics, applied in the most inexpert ways, with a disputatious pool of their egomaniac peers second-guessing them at every move. You'd think they'd know you can't run a business on smoke and mirrors, but...
I had a job where many of our new employees were recently-minted MBAs. It was fun taking them out on consulting engagements and letting them apply their brilliance to real-world problems. Then, after they get their asses handed to them, showing them the parts of the job that are learned on the street, not in B-school. But if we ever were handed a case study, I'll bet those people would be right in their element. Instead, what we usually faced were multifactorial problems, conflicting priorities, weird constraints, frustrating compromises and dirty politics.
Some of them learned, some didn't, some left because they didn't make senior VP by the age of 25. Not all were assholes.
The only way you should be allowed to teach at business school is if you already founded a business, grew it massively, and then sold it and retired early.
I can’t read the whole article, but the part about shifting mindsets quickly is not only a part of business schools. I think the articles point is that the elite class is educated at business schools, and this pushes a particular mindset.
Cech has a very good study about engineering schools having a “culture of disengagement” and essentially it is a discipline captured by capital as well.
Best case scenario, business school is a way to check a box for a degree that some company still requires if you aren't related to an executive, and get the slightest bit of networking establishment. If you are lucky, you might learn how to properly do some bookkeeping if you want to start your own business. Beyond that, the shit is so trivial and obvious that every dime wasted on it should set you back from your business career for making such an unprofitable decision.
And dudes who barely passed, failed, or dropped out of business school despite how unrigorous it is still end up millionaires often enough because business doesn't reward intelligence and hardwork, despite the bootstrap narratives all the wealthy "geniuses" play up. It rewards callousness, ambition, manipulation, and a ton of luck.
Can't read entire article, but at risk of repeating what may have been stated in article I would still like to mention that Business School is not Economics science. HOWEVER Economics science turned into a dogmatic religion. So while as such science is valuable, modern Economics is utter garbage and any progressive thought is always banished from the field. Imagine physics or mathematics doing that, or even computing? So the question should be not about shutting down but about restructure and reform. What governments need to do is to employ those rare progressive economists who actually survived institutional "pecking" and make them mainstream by adopting their policies. We need economists but not the kind produced by modern schools of business.
Economics is not a science any more than acupuncture, chiropractic, crystal healing, or aromatherapy.
Economics is trying to force ideology by finding favourable patterns that match the symptom and then ignoring the rest. Like trickle-down economics or shareholder primacy. It’s a lot of bullshit with some truth sprinkled throughout.
I am personally acquainted with an economist who has done a lot of work modeling how regulations are subverted by illegal activity.
Most criticisms of economics assume that the pap they were taught in an intro course is all that there is. That's like assuming that all physics involves simple demonstrations of Newtonian mechanics, since that's what you'll see in your first physics class.
I remember hearing that 'war is terrible for business' when I was in school. These days business is not about trade anymore-- its almost nothing but repeated speculation bubbles, gifts from government, and asset leveraging grifts. In this new world of business, war is Great for business. Politics and regulation have become about little more than steering markets and monopolies, and grift. Political leaders dont care what the plebs want, only what the rich want.
So yes, business schools are no longer useful for humanity.
Brother this has been the world of business since the 2nd world war. We just outnumbered them and acted like it until the fucking 80s when everyone was still pissed off about the 1970s fuel shortage and they all wanted to get rich.
It’s actually the same shit that Trump is doing except in reverse. He’s kinda just playing the Reagan \HW Bush tape backwards; the iron curtain went back up (Russia taking power back on the world stage), supercharged but unstable economy, then a health crisis that he ignored because he thought it only hurt people he didn’t like, now a fuel crisis leading to economic ruin. Literally doing the big history posts back to the 70s.
…I hope he’s not around long enough to get to the 30s
Well that was a refreshing read. I kind of know all of it but it's nice to have it written down. Business degrees are like if CS degrees were titled (and taught as) "Making and selling software".
27 replies
Lemmy.world copyright guidelines prohibit posting the entire contents of an article.
Thanks!
At my relatively small college with fewer than a dozen majors, by far the most insufferably slimy people there were the students majoring in business and management, as well as the program's instructing staff. The engineering, science, math, and humanities students were many times more genuine and pleasant.
When I was younger (like late 20s), I remember watching an infomercial about the power of trading stocks. It was a "CD/DVD kit" where they teach you how to make money trading penny stocks and shit like that.
I remember talking about it with a co-worker and he said something like, "If they really made all that money, why would they have to sell the kit?"
My response was, "Maybe they want other people to know how to do it to."
That conversation lives rent free in my brain because I realized years later that that's what business school is: a bunch of people telling people how to run a business profitably. If they could make money doing it, they wouldn't be teaching it.
I know that's not what business school is but damn the analogy still fits.
If you ever want to see ridiculous levels of mismanagement, just have a look at any business school. All the most trendy techniques and analytics, applied in the most inexpert ways, with a disputatious pool of their egomaniac peers second-guessing them at every move. You'd think they'd know you can't run a business on smoke and mirrors, but...
I had a job where many of our new employees were recently-minted MBAs. It was fun taking them out on consulting engagements and letting them apply their brilliance to real-world problems. Then, after they get their asses handed to them, showing them the parts of the job that are learned on the street, not in B-school. But if we ever were handed a case study, I'll bet those people would be right in their element. Instead, what we usually faced were multifactorial problems, conflicting priorities, weird constraints, frustrating compromises and dirty politics.
Some of them learned, some didn't, some left because they didn't make senior VP by the age of 25. Not all were assholes.
The only way you should be allowed to teach at business school is if you already founded a business, grew it massively, and then sold it and retired early.
There would be, maybe, 4 business professors then.
I can’t read the whole article, but the part about shifting mindsets quickly is not only a part of business schools. I think the articles point is that the elite class is educated at business schools, and this pushes a particular mindset.
Cech has a very good study about engineering schools having a “culture of disengagement” and essentially it is a discipline captured by capital as well.
Jstor link: https://www.jstor.org/stable/43671164
I commented with the full text as a reply to the post if you'd like to read it :)
No gift link? No copy-paste? Most people are unable to read this.
I commented with the full text as a direct comment to the post :)
Gift Link
Someone unlocked this story for you. Log in to read for free.
That’s new and annoying.
I tried the link after logging out and was able to get to the content if I used my browser’s “reader” mode.
It's not the full article
lol - they should change the name to “NYTimes Help us with user acquisition, links”:
https://help.nytimes.com/360060848652-Gift-Articles-for-New-York-Times-Subscribers
…fuckers…
Best case scenario, business school is a way to check a box for a degree that some company still requires if you aren't related to an executive, and get the slightest bit of networking establishment. If you are lucky, you might learn how to properly do some bookkeeping if you want to start your own business. Beyond that, the shit is so trivial and obvious that every dime wasted on it should set you back from your business career for making such an unprofitable decision.
And dudes who barely passed, failed, or dropped out of business school despite how unrigorous it is still end up millionaires often enough because business doesn't reward intelligence and hardwork, despite the bootstrap narratives all the wealthy "geniuses" play up. It rewards callousness, ambition, manipulation, and a ton of luck.
Can't read entire article, but at risk of repeating what may have been stated in article I would still like to mention that Business School is not Economics science. HOWEVER Economics science turned into a dogmatic religion. So while as such science is valuable, modern Economics is utter garbage and any progressive thought is always banished from the field. Imagine physics or mathematics doing that, or even computing? So the question should be not about shutting down but about restructure and reform. What governments need to do is to employ those rare progressive economists who actually survived institutional "pecking" and make them mainstream by adopting their policies. We need economists but not the kind produced by modern schools of business.
Economics is not a science any more than acupuncture, chiropractic, crystal healing, or aromatherapy.
Economics is trying to force ideology by finding favourable patterns that match the symptom and then ignoring the rest. Like trickle-down economics or shareholder primacy. It’s a lot of bullshit with some truth sprinkled throughout.
Source: BBA in Accounting.
The idea that there is a Nobel Prize for Economics is hilarious. Should be a FIFA Economics Prize.
The problem starts with assumptions that there is no illegal activity and people stealing, grifting, defrauding billions are somehow regulated.
I am personally acquainted with an economist who has done a lot of work modeling how regulations are subverted by illegal activity.
Most criticisms of economics assume that the pap they were taught in an intro course is all that there is. That's like assuming that all physics involves simple demonstrations of Newtonian mechanics, since that's what you'll see in your first physics class.
I remember hearing that 'war is terrible for business' when I was in school. These days business is not about trade anymore-- its almost nothing but repeated speculation bubbles, gifts from government, and asset leveraging grifts. In this new world of business, war is Great for business. Politics and regulation have become about little more than steering markets and monopolies, and grift. Political leaders dont care what the plebs want, only what the rich want.
So yes, business schools are no longer useful for humanity.
War is terrible for most businesses, but highly lucrative for some.
Brother this has been the world of business since the 2nd world war. We just outnumbered them and acted like it until the fucking 80s when everyone was still pissed off about the 1970s fuel shortage and they all wanted to get rich.
It’s actually the same shit that Trump is doing except in reverse. He’s kinda just playing the Reagan \HW Bush tape backwards; the iron curtain went back up (Russia taking power back on the world stage), supercharged but unstable economy, then a health crisis that he ignored because he thought it only hurt people he didn’t like, now a fuel crisis leading to economic ruin. Literally doing the big history posts back to the 70s.
…I hope he’s not around long enough to get to the 30s
Go on, then
Why do you need business school when companies have AI now?
Well that was a refreshing read. I kind of know all of it but it's nice to have it written down. Business degrees are like if CS degrees were titled (and taught as) "Making and selling software".