You know what happens when a datacenter full of computers gets blown up? Nothing. Nothing at all. A cat getting hit by a car or the mcdonalds shake machine being broken is a far greater tragedy.
Very little negative impact on the average person, low staff numbers, frees up water and electricity for the people. Personally, I can't think of a better target.
What percentage do you think accounts for that? Sure, some instances, but the largest absolutely are indatacenters.
But it's a distraction. You ready to grow your own food? Immediately? Because losing datacenters means losing credit/debit cards. No cash because banks can't connect to each other. No deliveries to stores. Society would literally fucking collapse.
But all these fucking idiots can do is ignorantly chant "destory all datacenters" because they don't fucking know what they're talking about.
I've seen society "collapse" in the wake of a natural disaster and literally no one cared that their cards stopped working. People just started sharing everything and if you tried to give someone cash they'd look at you like you just handed them a dead leaf you picked up off the ground. Community doesn't just survive, but it thrives in the absence of capital and the state. Others I know who lived through it still talk about how they miss the sense of comraderie everyone had during the aftermath. When the power comes back on, banks reopen, and everyone goes back to work the community atomizes again and everyone is back to focusing on their own lives.
Society would not just survive the destruction of data centers, but in the long term would actually benefit. It would incentivize people to decentralize and democratize both data storage and compute, and the services that data centers currently provide would be better for it.
Edit: I was wrong don’t kid yourself thinking this place is run by thinkpads in a furry’ basement. Have you even looked at the setup steps to selfhost lemmy its a minefield.
Do… you not realize that Hetzner is one of the larger server providers in existence? They have multiple datacenters because of all the servers - in multiple countries.
That's take down Reddit and a whole host of other websites and know what, I'm for it. Teach these fucks a lesson on building up actual redundancy or diversification.
No, you really can go outside any time. Having a kid has reminded me how true that is.
Sure he says he wants to play Minecraft all day, but it turns out, when you force him to do something else... Seeing friends and moving around at soccer practice is also fun. Spending the whole day mountain biking is also fun. Going camping is also fun. Going swimming is also fun. And just about all of these activities lead to feeling more connected to the people you, not less.
Sitting in front of a device will always feel easier, but it is not definitively better, it is not just the way things are now. The modern world does have new things, but it also still has the old things, and many of them are great.
So all that said, I vote blow all the data centers up.
Go to a bar and your neat little cards in your pocket? They won't work without the internet. The bar will doon run out of tasty drinks because they can't get deliveries anymore. And go to the bank to get some cash to use? Also fails without the interconnections that run across the internet.
All these twits saying to remove every datacenter are ignorant of the world. Wildly and proudly ignorant.
Or maybe maybe they don't give a damned? It's entirely possible for someone to think moving away from the current overly centralized and vulnerable internet based infrastructure is worth whatever damage is done. Personally I don't want the Internet to die but frankly speaking if every major data center was wiped out and replaced with more localized entity owned ones I wouldn't complain.
Datacentres have been potential targets for years. I remember some analysis from early in the war on Ukraine about targets in Western countries. Datacentres are vitally important for the economy, because of the businesses which are actually hosted there but also because of the infrastructure which supports other businesses.
Nowadays it seems like everyone thinks data centres are just running ChatGPT, but that is very stupid. This thread is hosted on lemmy.world's servers in one of hetzner's datacentres. OP's account is on feddit.org in a datacentre in Vienna.
Your country's banking system probably relies on datacentres. Your supermarkets probably rely on datacentres to get deliveries into stores. All your broadcast/streaming entertainment uses datacentres.
You do realize just how interconnected the world's gotten, right? Most trade happens over telecommunications, nobody sends written letters or telegrams anymore and even phone calls are digital now. If you live far enough away from food production, you may in fact starve since until the barter economy gets efficient enough, nobody's going to be bringing it to the grocery store near you... And you might not even own any physical goods valuable enough to trade for food.
I'm 51, kiddo. I grew up using cash and writing checks. And that world is gone.
If you kill all the datacenters, all those neat little cards in your pocket cease to function. And going to the bank won't get you any money because they can't interconnect anymore. Going to the grocery store and gas station will soon dry up even if you have cash because they can't coordinate deliveries anymore.
Oh please, fuck off. Wealth inequality kills far more, and all of those are problems, but internet disappearing (i.e. datacenters going away) would kill billions within weeks. Some people would survive, but it would be several orders of magnitude worse than any disaster that came before.
People are fucking ignorant and talking out their ass.
Yeah, and who do you think is more contributing to climate change?
Your privilege is showing. I honestly don't care anymore. Any action that can threaten the status quo always has some shit coming out of the wood work claiming that more people are helped by the status quo than are being hurt. Don't care anymore. I've heard every permutation of this discussion by now.
You gotta eat, yeah? Those neat little cards on your pocket don't work anymore. Go to the bank for cash? No can do, banks no longer interconnected. Doesn't matter, nobody can get deliveries anymore. Most telephone infrastructure is now gone, so good luck finding a land line.
I forgot the world never actually existed before 1950 and just magically sprung into existence. I somehow missed that 100% of the worlds data centers are located in Russia.
If data centers go down, where else are sad little people going to argue about pointless shit?
I somehow missed that 100% of the worlds data centers are located in Russia.
Yes. Go back and read the conversation and you can see what context you apparently missed, because you're having a completely different conversation.
I forgot the world never actually existed before 1950
You are a complete fucking fool if you don't undertand that the world has changed and that the wy things worked is not how they work anymore. But join the rest of the fools who don't seem to understand that.
The article is about the Russian strikes and possibly of more happening in warring areas.
Since not all data centers are in war areas, then it's unlikely for them all to go down. If 95% of the Internet goes down. Life will still go on. Majority of data centers are just data wearhouses. If my data, (bank account, information, etc) is gone so is the billionaires. This excludes anything hard copy or physically in hand.
Hospitals will go back to paper charting. Something that already happens during planned and unplanned downtime. People will buy things in person with...... Cash after being paid in.....cash. Again not that "...all data centers.." as you put it would be gone.
Did you know there are still countries that don't 100% rely on the internet. Shocking, I know.
By the way you have some boot on your tongue. You should get that looked at. You can reply with whatever. I won't be reading the words of someone defending data centers, anymore.
77 replies
You know what happens when a datacenter full of computers gets blown up? Nothing. Nothing at all. A cat getting hit by a car or the mcdonalds shake machine being broken is a far greater tragedy.
Better than a girl’s school
Good
Very little negative impact on the average person, low staff numbers, frees up water and electricity for the people. Personally, I can't think of a better target.
Where do you think the internet exists? Where do you think Lemmy exists?
if Lemmy stopped existing I'd read a book or go outside. I might even drink a beer with friends. It wouldnt be so bad, I bet.
"I'll reply to one little tiny piece of it and fucking ignore the rest because I'm too fucking ignorant"
Hosted in a bunch of random linux enthusiasts' home labs.
I dont much care where lemmy exists. If it went away tomorrow I promise you that we'd be OK.
What percentage do you think accounts for that? Sure, some instances, but the largest absolutely are indatacenters.
But it's a distraction. You ready to grow your own food? Immediately? Because losing datacenters means losing credit/debit cards. No cash because banks can't connect to each other. No deliveries to stores. Society would literally fucking collapse.
But all these fucking idiots can do is ignorantly chant "destory all datacenters" because they don't fucking know what they're talking about.
I've seen society "collapse" in the wake of a natural disaster and literally no one cared that their cards stopped working. People just started sharing everything and if you tried to give someone cash they'd look at you like you just handed them a dead leaf you picked up off the ground. Community doesn't just survive, but it thrives in the absence of capital and the state. Others I know who lived through it still talk about how they miss the sense of comraderie everyone had during the aftermath. When the power comes back on, banks reopen, and everyone goes back to work the community atomizes again and everyone is back to focusing on their own lives.
Society would not just survive the destruction of data centers, but in the long term would actually benefit. It would incentivize people to decentralize and democratize both data storage and compute, and the services that data centers currently provide would be better for it.
Edit: I was wrong don’t kid yourself thinking this place is run by thinkpads in a furry’ basement. Have you even looked at the setup steps to selfhost lemmy its a minefield.
slrpnk dot net: a different datacenter
someones basementhttps://wiki.f-hub.org/books/slrpnknet/page/server-hostinglemmy dot world: hetzner https://support.lemmy.world/donate/
Do… you not realize that Hetzner is one of the larger server providers in existence? They have multiple datacenters because of all the servers - in multiple countries.
Edit: I was being a toxic dick, I’m sorry I was wrong.
wooossshh yep and thus you would be the one in this discussion to disappear. The rest of us will continue just fine on other communities.It’s never a good idea to choose the largest instance in the fediverse.that slrpnk.net one is clearly describing something larger than a basement operation.
Because of Russian datacenter? Maybe lemmy. Ml...
Idiots keep saying "destroy all datacenters" and then comments like yours not keeping up with any sense of context.
Anyone ever tell you that you're a real turkey? Or a pill? How about a real piece of.... work?
I'm ok with Amazon's data centers going down too. The internet has grown far too centralized anyway.
It's wild that the Internet was designed to be decentralized, then...
Corporate response: "Let's get rid of all our on-prem stuff and put it in the same place as everyone else".
It's corporations. Corporations did this.
Corporations would always rather responsibility be taken on by other parties. Here it is managing their servers.
Once upon a time, a huge number of internet sites were on-premises. Then centralization became cheaper and companies said "fuck that".
You see it now with research institutions going cloud computer...
Sure, it's less robust, but line must go up.
That's take down Reddit and a whole host of other websites and know what, I'm for it. Teach these fucks a lesson on building up actual redundancy or diversification.
OH NOSE!
Not muh corporate internet!
We'd all be better off with less of it.
They are worth billions of dollars in hardware and are at the center of propaganda. No brainer.
now its also surveillance, and producing alot of propaganda slop.
It's not really about propaganda, but economic damage. If you destroy enough datacentres, you'll destroy a country's economy.
How long until they can't get insurance?
They are already bought through third parties, the only services that would agree to insure them are probably also russian
In previous wars (and coups and other military interventions) the communication infrastructure has always been a target.
Phone systems and broadcasters have always been aware that they're among the first things an attacking enemy would target.
De-fragging going to become a very different job in the IT space
At least it will TRIM the datacentres
Maybe one day we'll destroy them all, then we can finally go outside again.
You can choose to stop using the internet at any time.
Except you really can't unless you're ok being a lonely hermit.
No, you really can go outside any time. Having a kid has reminded me how true that is.
Sure he says he wants to play Minecraft all day, but it turns out, when you force him to do something else... Seeing friends and moving around at soccer practice is also fun. Spending the whole day mountain biking is also fun. Going camping is also fun. Going swimming is also fun. And just about all of these activities lead to feeling more connected to the people you, not less.
Sitting in front of a device will always feel easier, but it is not definitively better, it is not just the way things are now. The modern world does have new things, but it also still has the old things, and many of them are great.
So all that said, I vote blow all the data centers up.
Go to a bar or some other place where people are social, you'll find that you can talk to people without using the internet.
Go to a bar and your neat little cards in your pocket? They won't work without the internet. The bar will doon run out of tasty drinks because they can't get deliveries anymore. And go to the bank to get some cash to use? Also fails without the interconnections that run across the internet.
All these twits saying to remove every datacenter are ignorant of the world. Wildly and proudly ignorant.
Or maybe maybe they don't give a damned? It's entirely possible for someone to think moving away from the current overly centralized and vulnerable internet based infrastructure is worth whatever damage is done. Personally I don't want the Internet to die but frankly speaking if every major data center was wiped out and replaced with more localized entity owned ones I wouldn't complain.
Do try to remember the context of the conversation please.
Datacentres have been potential targets for years. I remember some analysis from early in the war on Ukraine about targets in Western countries. Datacentres are vitally important for the economy, because of the businesses which are actually hosted there but also because of the infrastructure which supports other businesses.
Nowadays it seems like everyone thinks data centres are just running ChatGPT, but that is very stupid. This thread is hosted on lemmy.world's servers in one of hetzner's datacentres. OP's account is on feddit.org in a datacentre in Vienna.
Your country's banking system probably relies on datacentres. Your supermarkets probably rely on datacentres to get deliveries into stores. All your broadcast/streaming entertainment uses datacentres.
Oh no! Anyway…
They always were, just now we're seeing physical attacks on them instead of cyberattacks.
Network Engineer here with work on data centers.
Lets fucking go
I hope you work from home
Dude carrys his wrench around the data center tightening nuts and bolts for improved performance.
Cool. Legit target. Traffic with the military and get bombed.
Excellent! Hopefully the war on terror also! Because data centers are capitalistic terrorism.
Then it should be war on capitalism
Excellent
Consolidated comms as conflict targets? Knock out comms and Intel in one easy MOAB? Who knew?!? ;-)
Well get to it already, there are still so many that have yet to be destroyed.
Does this include my self-hosting rig?
are you a datacenter, have massive buildings with alot of ai chips/servers, then no.
No, but if all datacenters ceased to exist, 95%+ of the internet would literally be gone. Including lemmy, for example.
At this point I'm OK with that.
you say that like it’s a bad thing?
Fucking idiots. Society would LITERALLY fucking collapse and you would fucking starve to death.
how old are you? do you remember life before the internet? lol.
You do realize just how interconnected the world's gotten, right? Most trade happens over telecommunications, nobody sends written letters or telegrams anymore and even phone calls are digital now. If you live far enough away from food production, you may in fact starve since until the barter economy gets efficient enough, nobody's going to be bringing it to the grocery store near you... And you might not even own any physical goods valuable enough to trade for food.
neat.
Huh. Cool.
I'm 51, kiddo. I grew up using cash and writing checks. And that world is gone.
If you kill all the datacenters, all those neat little cards in your pocket cease to function. And going to the bank won't get you any money because they can't interconnect anymore. Going to the grocery store and gas station will soon dry up even if you have cash because they can't coordinate deliveries anymore.
This gets better and better.
That's already happening from the endless CO2 use.
Oh please, fuck off. Wealth inequality kills far more, and all of those are problems, but internet disappearing (i.e. datacenters going away) would kill billions within weeks. Some people would survive, but it would be several orders of magnitude worse than any disaster that came before.
People are fucking ignorant and talking out their ass.
Yeah, and who do you think is more contributing to climate change?
Your privilege is showing. I honestly don't care anymore. Any action that can threaten the status quo always has some shit coming out of the wood work claiming that more people are helped by the status quo than are being hurt. Don't care anymore. I've heard every permutation of this discussion by now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7GqLQgmm8
What you are talking about is a wildly fucking different conversation, so fuck off then.
Neat
Oh no, I guess we'll just read books and do more outdoor activities.
You gotta eat, yeah? Those neat little cards on your pocket don't work anymore. Go to the bank for cash? No can do, banks no longer interconnected. Doesn't matter, nobody can get deliveries anymore. Most telephone infrastructure is now gone, so good luck finding a land line.
Fucking learn how the world actually works.
I forgot the world never actually existed before 1950 and just magically sprung into existence. I somehow missed that 100% of the worlds data centers are located in Russia.
If data centers go down, where else are sad little people going to argue about pointless shit?
Yes. Go back and read the conversation and you can see what context you apparently missed, because you're having a completely different conversation.
You are a complete fucking fool if you don't undertand that the world has changed and that the wy things worked is not how they work anymore. But join the rest of the fools who don't seem to understand that.
You said "..all data centers.."
The article is about the Russian strikes and possibly of more happening in warring areas.
Since not all data centers are in war areas, then it's unlikely for them all to go down. If 95% of the Internet goes down. Life will still go on. Majority of data centers are just data wearhouses. If my data, (bank account, information, etc) is gone so is the billionaires. This excludes anything hard copy or physically in hand.
Hospitals will go back to paper charting. Something that already happens during planned and unplanned downtime. People will buy things in person with...... Cash after being paid in.....cash. Again not that "...all data centers.." as you put it would be gone.
Did you know there are still countries that don't 100% rely on the internet. Shocking, I know.
By the way you have some boot on your tongue. You should get that looked at. You can reply with whatever. I won't be reading the words of someone defending data centers, anymore.
https://giphy.com/gifs/oh-no-anyway-7k2LoEykY5i1hfeWQB