[Discussion] Which Soulslike will you be playing this weekend and what's your favourite Soulslike theory?
Edit: s/o to @[email protected] for this weekend's discussion topic 💜
A tale as old as time, League of Legends is a garbage game that I cannot stop playing. At least I also fired up Dishonored for old time's sake which got me a little nostalgic. Neither are soulslikes, sadly.
Inspired by @[email protected]'s post on how the Elden Ring maps match up, I'd like to know what your favourite soulslike theory is. I don't really have any - I leave that to people who know more about the lore of the games. :)
I'm not 100% certain that it qualifies as a soulslike even within this community's generally-broader definition of it, but I've had Crypt Custodian in my library for a while and it is calling to me. It's an action metroidvania with a dodge, it has to be at least part of the way there, right? I will also be pretending that the main character is actually my cat
I think my favourite theory is an Elden Ring one: all of Marika's children save for Godwyn was used as seal upon something that threatened her. That's why so many of them are cursed, and it's also why she completely broke down at Godwyn's death despite her utter ruthlessness in all other matters. These seal-children are drawn towards and influenced by whatever they are sealing, but they limit that entity's influence in the Lands Between to be at least mostly contained to that child's work. Some have very obvious connections:
Mogh and the Formless Mother, of course
Ranni and the Dark Moon. It does absolutely nothing during the game
Malenia and the Scarlet Rot. We see very little of the Scarlet Rot without it being directly associated with Malenia in some way, outside of the work
Messmer and the Abyssal Serpent
Rykard and the God-Devouring Serpent
These leave us with Radahn, Miquella, Morgott, and Melina still to explain. Helpfully, we also have threats to match: the god of the Twinbird (or Destined Death), the Fell God (or the Giants' Flame), the Frenzied Flame, and the Greater Will itself. I do think that these match up pretty well:
Radahn is an easy one. He's physically massive, he has the red hair explicitly stated to be associated with the giants, and he intentionally models himself at least partly on the conqueror of the giants, Godfrey. His connection to the Giants' Flame is what made his great rune "burn, to resist the encroachment of the scarlet rot." The use of the fire monks and the flame chariots in his forces could be a reflection of this, but it could just as easily be a practical measure to contain the Scarlet Rot so I won't lean on that
Melina's close connection to Destined Death is pretty much openly stated. Her whole goal is freeing Destined Death, she shares a moveset with the Death-wielding assassins, and she vows to bring you Destined Death in a specific ending. That is the fire that burned her, and she dies to free it
Morgott is the seal upon the Greater Will. His dedication to the Order is absolute, even as it curses him. He's a direct reflection of the Lands Between itself in that regard. The Greater Will is a threat to Marika, though perhaps one she was willing to tolerate as the least-bad option until Godwyn died. Morgott's connection is what gives him abilities to wield incantation magic that nobody else has access to, and perhaps also what de-omen-ifies him as he dies
Miquella. This one is a stretch, I will admit, but I think it actually does work. The only remaining obvious entity to contain is the Frenzied Flame. We know that Frenzy appears in those who feel completely abandoned and lost, and that actually is what happened to Miquella - all of his greatest attempts to work against the cruelties of the world failed, and he lost himself because of it. Why is the Frenzied Flame able to exert so much more influence on the world than the other similar entities? The seal upon it left, abandoned much of himself, and transformed the nature of what was left
Godwyn was Marika finally trying to have a family that she actually saw as family. He's the only one that we know actually had descendants of his own too. He was Marika's hopes for the future, and that's why losing him was so awful for her even as she was willing to exile Godfrey and banish two of her other kids to the sewer-prisons
I will not apologise for my ramblings
I really like your theory :)
That Radahn seals something related to the giants away seems a bit tenuous to me. But we don't need to go that far; he is literally sealing something away. He is called "Starscourge Radahn". He is sealing the fate of the stars away. That this halts Ranni's destiny always seemed a bit of a byproduct to me; at least that is how I understood it. He seemed to halt, or, you know, seal, a significant amount of fate.
Honestly, Miquella doesn't feel as much of a stretch to me in this theory. You use his needle to suppress the Frenzied Flame, and the first clue to this usage of the needle is actually in the tomb with the Frenzied Flame. That seems like a pretty solid connection to me. Something that Miquella crafted, suppressing that which he sealed…
On more quote for the road:
Fantastic ending.
That's reasonable regarding Radahn! I'm not entirely sure how much my position on him having an association with the giants is down to the cut content line from Enia that calls him "slayer of giants". And you are quite right, he is explicitly keeping that threat in check and also shares features of it
Regardless of what he was sealing away under this theory, I do agree that Ranni's fate was a byproduct and not the intended target
Thank you for adding to this!
I don't think I have any fun Soulslike theories to entertain with, unfortunately. I like the idea that Patches is Miyazaki and that's why he's absent from DS2. But I feel like that is a pretty commonly held idea, surely?
No Soulslikes for me this weekend. I am very tempted to play Wuchang after having read a lot of gushing about its level design, but considering how frustrated I got and how little fun I was having in AI Limit recently I feel like I should probably go on a Soulslike timeout before the next one.
I'll probably play some Darkwood, try and see if it sticks. And you know... in a way you could say it's the "Dark Souls of horror games"? Certainly feels so this far. I'm unsure if it'll stick through. I might also start over on Normal difficulty even though Hard (permadeath with limited extra lives) is intended, but I'm giving this a shot first. It definitely makes the game scarier.
And... yeah this game is fucking scary. Beautiful vibes, great setting and some good creepy art, but most of all really phenomenal sound design that sets the atmosphere just right and really freaks you out. And the gameplay design works with this wonderfully, leading to some absolutely horrifying moments during night time when you're holed up in your cabin, windows barricaded and the violent dangers of the night are howling around you, and you hear footsteps on the outside, twigs snapping, bumps in the night... and all you have for weapons is a single rock.
And then eventually, finally, the slowly building, rising deep note in the OST starts as the the red light of dawn slowly pierces the tree line and you realize you have survived another night.
I don't know if I have it in me to finish it on Hard, but this game might be as good as people have said it is.
That sounds absolutely terrifying - I doubt I'd have it in me to play this.
We've recently played through RE8 and that was quite a challenge for my nerves. Some passages were quite fine to move around in since the game is a little more action-oriented compared to RE7 that's just full-on horror with barely any ways to protect yourself + constant jumpscares, but it was still scary to move around in at times. What you're describing, however, is something else.
I'm probably imagining it to be worse than it is, I suspect. I'll have to watch some gameplay.
No, it's pretty much as scary as it sounds. The sound design is spectacular. I'm not particularly easily spooked, but this game gets to me. One thing is because it's not really doing jump scares. It's a game that understands that tension and the unknown are the scariest things in the world. Also, if you play it in the intended semi-permadeath game mode there are actual stakes, which horror games often lack otherwise. Like you know, a jump scare can make me jump a little if it's well done, but it's not really scary. What's the worst that can happen? You reload your last save? Big deal. It's something a lot of horror games get wrong. The first time a zombie jumps out you might twitch, but after that you just go "okay, this is an area with zombies, got it" and it's not scary anymore. It's the unknown that is truly terrifying. It's why Kojima's PT is so fucking scary.
And that's also why this game wants people to play permadeath. I've dabbled in it in STALKER Anomaly before (which also has some pseudo-horror elements) and it definitely adds another dimension.
Okay, you're kinda selling me on it, and that's not good D:
I've played RE8, a little bit of RE7, RE4, a little bit of RE2, a little bit of Outlast 2. Watched a whole bunch more, like Amnesia when that was all the rage, but these are probably the only ones I've actually played myself.
How does this stack up against all the games I've played?
I mean, it depends what you find scary. Darkwood so far has not been psychological horror if that's what gets you going. This also hasn't had all that much gross-out stuff and body horror and that kind of stuff that Outlast does. And again, the developers themselves have said they wanted a game with no jump scares.
This is oppressive survival horror - the whole premise is that you're basically trapped in a fucked up cursed ass plague ridden forest and need to get out. Everyone else you meet is trapped too (there are NPCs, not just enemies). And like I said, a big emphasis is made on the day/night cycle. Daytime is mostly okay, you spend it exploring deeper into the forest and desperately scavenging for anything you can find - then rush back as fast as you can when night falls because if you're caught outside at night it's over.
And you have to sit through the night, by the way. There is no fast forward, there is no bed to interact with to jump to the next morning. You huddle in a corner of your cabin with your back to the wall for five to ten minutes as you can't see what's going on outside - only hear the noises. And you hope your barricades are holding until dawn and nothing gets in.
There are plenty of video essays out there saying Darkwood is the scariest horror game ever made. They started popping up in my feed last year when the sequel got announced, that's actually why I ended up buying it. Anyway, so far I may be inclined to agree. Also it's dirt cheap, currently 80% off and less than €3 total.
I might be getting too comfortable and underestimating things, but I feel like the isometric view is probably not too bad tho, right? I imagined a first-person game. It could very well be still scary as hell, but that probably makes it tolerable at least? D:
Honestly, just give it a try. I guess it's a question of immersion, but for me I don't have any problems getting immersed as is. And I definitely think for the budget and resources they had, this implementation is much better than any full 3D attempt they could have made. I'm trying to picture in my head what a full budget AAA first-person version would be like, but I honestly don't know that it would be all that much scarier.
Also, their use of a limited cone of vision is really effective, so it's not like you're always aware of your surroundings - the opposite in fact. And there is something to that, especially when you're waiting out the night time. You're huddling in a corner - maybe behind a bear trap - holding a rock or maybe a plank with a nail in it, and you only see a tiny circle around yourself, while simultaneously seeing all the screen real estate around you being in fog of war. In a way, it makes you even more aware of everything around you you can't see. You constantly look at the room next to yours on screen, behind the wall, knowing that you can't see what's in there. And then the noises start...
That bit where the trailer goes directly from a close-up of an eye with a dilating pupil to an eye-shaped hole that then bites down to swallow the protagonist is a great bit of visual trickery
The Greater Will doesn't exist.
Many people in the Lands Between believe in it as a guiding force, like something way beyond gods as a conscious cosmos, a conscious reality. But then they attribute all their signs and wants of the Greater Will to the Two Fingers, whose Mother, whom I'm theorizing guides/controls them all, hasn't "received signs" from beyond her microcosm in forever.
All of the Greater Will just hinges on two entities: Metyr and the Elden Beast. But that they come from a cosmic super force is tenuous and probably just propaganda by Metyr. There is surprisingly little in the game beyond the one keyword "Greater Will" to actually connect the Elden Beast and Metyr. Metyr was supposedly first to the Lands Between (according to her Remembrance), but if and how Metyr was before Marika even involved with the Elden Ring is unclear. Was she even there when Placidusax was Elden Lord?
Now my theory: sure, Elden Beast and Metyr come from outer space or another dimension, but there is no reason for them to come from some cosmic super entity/living cosmos thing. They are just super fancy aliens. Metyr just wanted a religion, and if you're a truly immortal, eternal schemer, then, eh, why not have some religion backing so that you can implement your schemes? Sure, Metyr comes from somewhere, and she supposedly wants to make contact to there again (and maybe even returns if you defeat her?), but again, to repeat my theory, there is not "necessarily" a Greater Will there.
The Elden Beast. Something that can be wielded by a god to reshape an era of reality to their desired image is something ginormously powerful and still clearly has a will of it's own - I've been hit by that will quite a few times on the head. But the Elden Beast could just be a wandering entity in the cosmos and/or between realities. It never says where it's from. Most information about it just comes from the Two Fingers. Also, it seems kinda antagonistic towards the Two Fingers, maybe. Is it the Elden Beast or the Two Fingers that lock Marika away in her Erdtree? From my reading, it's the Elden Beast that punishes her for her transgression. The Two Fingers want to continue the scheming; hence… well the plot of the game, Tarnished -> Elden Lord.
Okay, that was really too much rambling, and I kinda lost my own plot there a bit. I will definitely replay Elden Ring again and view it under this lens. Always fun to view Fromsoft games from different angles.
No gaming for me this week; family is visiting. I heard you can have quite a fun time in something called "IRL".
I would give it a shot, but I'm afraid of the brutal difficulty. Also I've heard it's permadeath only. And you can't even save scum!
Can someone explain "made a lot of crap to?"
I cannot get my brain to understand.
I think it's trying to say "made things a lot worse for his people and land". That'd make sense for Gwyn and Allant, at least. Gehrman doesn’t really fit that since he doesn’t have much control in the matter, but I suppose the original maker of the pic might not have known about that
He's carrying out the will of the Moon Presence, and in that sense he doesn't have much of a say in what he's doing. However, he does regularly champion new hunters to be exploited by her too and doesn't really involve them in getting rid of her either. Plus the whole shabang of him cleansing the entire fishing village with Maria to carry out the will of the Healing Church. Also his creepy obsession with Maria and the creation of the Doll in her image...
I guess he's not as bad as the other two based on the smaller scale, but he's definitely not innocent either.
"who made a lot of crap to his people and land" 🤔