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Luminous5481's ban

Some recent threads have pulled lemmy.ca into the drama around lemmy.world and Luminous5481. We banned them a few days before LW did, and claims have been made that we're aligned with LW in the pro-zionist behavior LW has been accused of.

~8 days ago Luminous had "murder all Zionists" in their name, during which time they banned [email protected] from the community agitprop memes. The reason given was "zionism, genocide apologia" with a 74 year expiry time. Recursive saw this, was confused and insulted by the insinuation / threat, and retaliatory banned Luminous. This happened 2 days before the LW issue began, and from our point of view was unrelated.

Recursive posted in our internal chat immediately after they placed the ban, letting us all know. We all agreed that being flippant about who Luminous labels a zionist while also repeatedly calling for the murder of zionists, wasn't appropriate for lemmy.ca. It violates our of our "Be Civil" rule, and is toxic behaviour that doesn't belong here.

None of us knew at the time why Recursive had been banned, although yesterday while digging I found this thread. Luminous placed the ban because Recursive had banned [email protected] with a "suspiciously similar ban message" to one MrKaplan used. Recursive used "Troll and perpetual history of bad faith behavior" vs MrKaplan removing a comment as "troll". That's a pretty shitty reason to label someone a zionist genocide apologist, while you're calling for the murder of all zionists.

None of us support Israel, we're all horrified by what they're doing. That doesn't mean throwing around death threats on Lemmy should be tolerated.

Context if you're unfamiliar with this issue:

View original on lemmy.ca
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Comments17
i_stole_ur_taco
lemmy.ca

Ugh. Thank you admins and mods for sorting through stupid drama so we don’t have to.

37
Shadowreply
lemmy.ca

Worst part of running a fediverse site IMHO. We just want to build a space where people can come and share memes / discuss ideas in an intelligent + reasonable fashion, without being personally attacked.

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WizardGedreply
lemmy.ca

for whatever it's worth I think you're doing a hell of a job 👍

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recursive_recursion
piefed.ca

Due to a hasty mistake without evidence on my admin action alone not involving any of the other admins, I unfortunately banned [email protected] which I have now reverted. Discussing with the admin team I have proposed steps to ensure that I don't repeat this dumb mistake again.

I will be creating steps such that checks with the admin team will occur before ban actions happen.

On the topic of the connection to the lemmy.world admin action, that honestly was purely coincidental. Being too busy IRL; after I gave the team heads up on the wild situation with:

zionism, genocide apologia

I moved on without realizing problems were brewing so again that's on me. None of the rest of the admin teams have anything to do with this.

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WizardGed
lemmy.ca

The othering of people and culture wars that some people are doing in that yptb thread is sickening. Also a pretty shit thing to do to go around calling for any group of people to be murdered while at the same time deciding for them if they believe in something/are a part of that group, or not. It's pretty damn sad that intelligent and respectful discussion is pretty much dead on this because if you aren't calling for zionists to killed you must be supporting them. Pacifists and those that want them to face a trial for what has happened be damned. I can already hear the dumb arguments, false dichotomies and fallacies justifying there viewpoints.

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Grainnereply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Culture wars?

What about the literal wars killing innocent children, the weaponised rapes, and other war crimes being committed by Israel?

You sound more upset over bad language online.

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WizardGedreply
lemmy.ca

You certainly didn't waste any time with the fallacy.

What about the literal wars killing innocent children, the weaponised rapes, and other war crimes being committed by Israel?

I do not support them and condemn them. I also realize that randomly calling people zionists when the above is the case is indirectly saying they agree with killing innocent children, weaponised rapes, and other war crimes. The reality is whether you like it or not people do call themselves zionists because they believe in the dictionary definition and not the historical and real life consequences that come up when the land that zionism either requires everyone on that land to be okay with it being turned into jewish land when other cultures had claim to it or force. Is it stupid? yep. Do You go around calling for death because they are stupid and don't understand that or think there is some magic man that will make everyone ok with it? No.

I think it should be clear from my language how I "feel" about it.

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dubyakay
lemmy.ca

No one is born a policeman. They choose to be a class traitor.

No one is born a Nazi. They choose to be a Nazi.

No one is born a zionist. They choose to be a zionist.

Speaking out against zionism, zionists and wishing them death is not othering.

Don't be a zionist.

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Curious_Canid
piefed.ca

You folks are doing a great job. It is not possible to maintain a healthy environment without locking toxic people out. Those are always going to be tricky judgment calls, but someone has to make them. I appreciate the thought that you put into making those decisions, as well as the transparency in letting us know why.

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Domino
quokk.au

I was asked to share this here as the user cannot themselves.

The ban for Deceptichum was not only suspiciously worded, it came almost instantly after the one from Lemmy.World. There is zero context for the ban beyond basically copying what MrKaplans ban was and adding outright lies about bad-faith behaviour.

I was banned from the entire instance and had every single one of my communities, even those moderated by other users deleted from Lemmy.Ca because I use the word 'ZioNazi' to describe an origination? There was no death threats or any thing else beyond such a basic statement and this happened before anything to do with Luminous. I can't see where in the rules that word results in such a extreme response.

Not once had I ever received any moderation from lemmy.ca, and had only ever participated in this instance in good faith. Posting music, sharing TIL's, posting Canadian news, etc. The decision to wipe my entire existence off of this instance can only be seen as directed by MrKaplan and enacted by recursive_recursion due to MrKaplans personal feelings around the word 'ZioNazi' of which he took great offence to the 'Nazi' part as he is apparently German.

Edit: - Is the comment that I was instance banned and communities like ![email protected] were removed for. Is that really a justified response?

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Shadowreply
lemmy.ca

I was asked to share this here as the user cannot themselves.

Thanks.

We're still reviewing Deceptichum's ban internally and will follow up in the next day or so once we've had a chance to dig / discuss more.

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Grainnereply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

I am frustrated to have communities I run removed by the Lemmy.ca team and still no reason given.

Like I said a few days ago, it very much feels like you are in cahoots with Lemmy.world

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Shadowreply
lemmy.ca

Removing all the communities wasn't intentional, we've restored https://lemmy.ca/c/[email protected] so far and will go through the rest.

Edit: I've restored all of these -

       id    |       name       |                actor_id
     ---------+------------------+----------------------------------------
      1547851 | anarchymemes     | https://anarchist.nexus/c/anarchymemes
      1483002 | 90s_memes        | https://quokk.au/c/90s_memes
      1505780 | acab             | https://quokk.au/c/acab
      1352665 | ausmusic         | https://quokk.au/c/ausmusic
      1546155 | auspol           | https://quokk.au/c/auspol
      1546127 | australia        | https://quokk.au/c/australia
      1586724 | clips            | https://quokk.au/c/clips
      1332922 | emo              | https://quokk.au/c/emo
      1402823 | greeneggsandspam | https://quokk.au/c/greeneggsandspam
      1620458 | historygallery   | https://quokk.au/c/historygallery
      1620049 | historymusic     | https://quokk.au/c/historymusic
      1677786 | mop              | https://quokk.au/c/mop
      1555028 | musicvideos      | https://quokk.au/c/musicvideos
      1567365 | peoplemastodon   | https://quokk.au/c/peoplemastodon
      1463985 | philosophymemes  | https://quokk.au/c/philosophymemes
      1076676 | shitprop         | https://quokk.au/c/shitprop
      1421739 | sigh_fi          | https://quokk.au/c/sigh_fi
       975270 | SighFi           | https://quokk.au/c/SighFi
      1560152 | usa              | https://quokk.au/c/usa
      1407065 | videos           | https://quokk.au/c/videos
      1330813 | weird            | https://quokk.au/c/weird
      1485860 | y2k_memes        | https://quokk.au/c/y2k_memes
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givesomefucksreply
lemmy.world

Oh man ...

If only there was other instances where you could host communities..

it very much feels like you are in cahoots with Lemmy.world

The big communities act the same, because that's what most fedivwrse users wanted.

If most people wanted db0, .ml, or any other flavor of instance, then those would be the most popular.

You think the popular ones are coordinating, when it's just they're all popular for the same reason in the first place.

If the shit you want was what most people wanted, most people would be on instance like yours.

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Phoenixz
lemmy.ca

None of us support Israel, we’re all horrified by what they’re doing. That doesn’t mean throwing around death threats on Lemmy should be tolerated.

Why is it that so many people these days can't see that two things can be wrong and that two wrongs don't make a right?

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