Spyke

Stubsack: weekly thread for sneers not worth an entire post, week ending 8th March 2026

Want to wade into the snowy surf of the abyss? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid.

Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.

Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.

If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.

The post Xitter web has spawned so many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)

Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.

(Credit and/or blame to David Gerard for starting this.)

https://awful.systems/post/7380892Open linkView original on awful.systems
awful.systems

just got a job in mathematical publishing. it's work i think i'll actually enjoy and expect to be very good at, it pays much better than any other job i've had previously (and they maxed out the position's pay range, which i wasn't expecting) and it has about a month of paid leave a year. such a relief

28
awful.systems

It's 10 pm on a Sunday. My FIL is texting me business plans from the slop hole as I try to get the last kiddo down to sleep. He wants me to read them to my wife, who already mad at him about it.

Thank you all for being an island of sanity.

24

"posting from the slop hole" is probably the best description possible for this, brb stealing

13

There's only one thing that's advertised as not-waterproof that I'll risk using underwater and that's Casio wristwatches. "Water resist" is a huge understatement for them the things are indestructable.

(This comment sponsored by Casio)

9

What a fool. A proper scientist would test for a bigger N. Drop your phone in the pool again Why.

8
awful.systems

Usually, you wake up on a lifeless beach that’s adorned with some sort of abandoned marble temple. It’s supposed to be beautiful, but instead it’s really sad. Almost unbearably sad. So much so that you want to get away from it. So you crawl downward into these vents going below the horrible temple, and suddenly it’s like you’re moving through the innards of an incomprehensible machine that’s thudding away, thud, thud, thud. And as you get deeper, the metal sidings are carved with scrawled ominous curses and slurs directed toward you, and you hear the voices, louder than before, and you somehow know these people are in pain because of you. It keeps getting colder. Color drains from the world. And you see the crowd through the slats of the vents: pale and emaciated men, women, and children from centuries to come, all of them pressed together for warmth in some sort of unending cavern. What clothes they have are torn and ragged. Before you know it, their dirty hands and dirty fingernails lurch through the grates, and they’re reaching for you, tearing at your shirt, moaning terrible things about their suffering and how you made it happen, you made it, and you need to stop this now, now, now. And next they’re ripping you apart, limb from limb, and you are joining them in the gray dimness forever.

10

Don't worry, there's always Effective Altruism if you ever feel guilty about causing the suffering of regular people. Just say you're going to donate your money at some point eventually in the future. There you go, 40 trillion hypothetical lives saved!

8

another Onion banger for these trying times

” Then you wake up in a cold sweat and can’t breathe at all, almost like you’re drowning—I guess from the weight of untold mobs of people leaping on you and ripping you apart”

the real Scam Altman would never feel any kind of remorse or emotion about this

10
istewartreply
awful.systems

"They wanted me to build an AI, so I built a shoddy AI casing filled with used pinball machine parts!"

5

Sorry, I was referring to a part of the Prince of Darkness movie

Words on computer screen: "You will not be saved by the holy ghost. You will not be saved by the god Plutonium. In fact, YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED!"

As that movie has people sending messages back from the future using dreams plot element.

4
awful.systems

in the past 24 hours I was fooled by 3 pieces of fake news in a row:

  • that Kurds from Iraq were crossing the border to fight in Iran
  • that Windows 12 would be AI-centred or require an AI chip to work (I helped spread this)
  • that Spain has capitulated and let the US use its ports for war (erroneously claimed by a WH official).

I know that fake news can be made organically and have been since forever and I'm doing selection bias here but I can't help but picture the misinformation engines firehosing bullshit constantly until some of it catches and spreads.

19
geriksonreply
awful.systems

yeah it's bad

otoh awareness I think is spreading

swedish public broadcasting has regular "spot the fake" pieces on their website

I think giving a sensationalist bit of news 6 hours to "mature" is a good idea before amplifying.

9

If you have to swim in raw sewage, you shouldn't blame yourself when some poop gets in your mouth.

6
awful.systems

Prosperity's Path: OpenAI has shown it cannot be trusted. Canada needs nationalized, public AI https://archive.ph/QLg2D

tldr tech bullshit requires ur tax dollars. what ever you do don't question the all knowing laurentian technocrats!

16
awful.systems

yeah, the current situation in Europe is like: "As EU citizens, we should break free of our dependency on US Big Tech like the Torment Nexus. That's why my company is advancing our fully sovereign solution, the Agony Core! Europe-owned, GDPR-compliant, Frontex-approved scalable Torment-as-a-Service, at competitive prices with TN-based deployments!"

18

It is amazing in a way, as in .nl our anti piracy org (brein) already went after local AI models for copyright infringement. While people in power still think we should go all in on AI. Sadly people with tech skills are rare in gov (politicians who go after the votes of tech enthousiasts otoh).

7
awful.systems

The HarfBuzz maintainer has drunk the slop-aid - Baldur has commented on it, warning of the potentially catastrophic consequences:

Fonts are a lucrative target. They require a complex parser, usually written in a language that isn't memory safe, and often directly exposed to outside data (websites, PDFs, etc. that contain fonts). This means a flaw could lead to an attack worst case scenario: arbitrary code execution. HarfBuzz is pretty much the only full-featured library for that takes font files, parses them, and returns glyphs ready to render. It is ubiquitous. A security flaw in HarfBuzz could make a good portion of the world's user-facing software (i.e. that renders text) unsafe.

15
awful.systems

luis villa, who as a lawyer really should have known better, being self-reportedly a friend of behdad and a confabulation/war machine promoter decided to come to rescue, calling the above (a) attack, and (b) slander.

7

Always a good sign when people call normal security concerns that. Hackers love that. /s

5

I used to think that I could avoid using open source projects which embrace the slop machines, but new it keeps getting more and more adoption, including in good and beloved projects... at this point I think I'll just have to accept and ignore it, or otherwise I'd have to play endless whack-a-mole with stuff all over my operating systems :(

2

The AI people are still infatuated with math. The Epoch AI staff, after being thoroughly embarrassed last year by the FrontierMath scandal, have now decided to make a new FrontierMath Open Problems benchmark, this time with problems that people might give a shit about!

I decided to look at one of the easiest "moderately interesting" problems and noticed that GPT-5.2 Pro managed to solve a warm up version of the problem, i.e. a version that had been previously solved. Wow, these reasoning models sure are capable of math! So I was curious and looked at the reasoning trace and it turns out that ... the model just found an obscure website with the right answer and downloaded it. Well, I guess you could say it has some impressive reasoning as it figures out how to download and parse the data, maybe.

14
JFranekreply
awful.systems

I can't see the "reasoning" trace in the link. Do you need to be logged in?

5

I can see them by clicking on the "Reasoned for 6m 34s" box on my desktop browser (I know, great UI design) without needing to log in. This did not work on my phone. In any case, I can copy it here:

::: spoiler Warning: very long slop Exploring Hadamard matrix construction for order 428

For a Hadamard matrix of order 428, we need to confirm that it’s a multiple of 4, which it is (428 = 4 * 107). However, the challenge is that order 107 doesn’t work since it’s not a multiple of 4. A possible approach could involve using constructions like Williamson or Goethals-Seidel. Alternatively, I could try a Kronecker product of smaller matrices.

Examining constructions for Hadamard matrix of order 428

Since 107 ≡ 3 mod 4, Paley type I gives a Hadamard of order 108, but I need 428, not 432. That’s a little tricky. I wonder if there’s a known construction for order 4*107 using "Hadamard matrix of order 4q" or conference matrices. Could I adapt the generalized Paley approach for this?

Exploring conference matrix construction for Hadamard order 428

For q = 107, Paley construction doesn’t work since q ≡ 3 mod 4. But if I can create a conference matrix of order 214 (since 214 ≡ 2 mod 4), then a Hadamard matrix of order 428 would follow. Conference matrices require specific conditions, but this seems promising. Let's focus on 214.

Searching for explicit Hadamard matrix of order 428

To generate a Hadamard matrix of order 428, it might be feasible since many such matrices exist up to large orders, but I need one explicitly with ±1 entries. A direct construction could involve methods like Goethals-Seidel, which uses circulant matrices to satisfy specific conditions. I'll need to implement this method.

Exploring construction methods and searching for Hadamard matrix 428

For n=107, there might be a way to use Legendre sequences for Goethals-Seidel difference sets. I know there are constructions for order 4q where q is an odd prime power, but using approaches like Scarpis or Turyn may help too. I’ll search for an explicit Hadamard matrix of order 428 for a possible example or construction.

Exploring accessible sources and construction options for Hadamard matrix

It seems like there may be server timeouts, so I'll need to try other sources like GitHub, arXiv, or design theory papers. We could construct the Hadamard matrix ourselves using known algorithms, but it's heavy. If accessible, sequences from a Kharaghani paper could help, and SageMath might have relevant functions too.

Identifying base sequences to build Hadamard matrix

To create a Hadamard matrix of order 428, I think I can use base sequences of lengths 71 and 36, which combine to 107. I'll look for Turyn-type sequences or T-sequences in accessible PDFs, potentially from open sources like arXiv. A useful file might be "H_428," so I'll search for it.

Checking GitHub for Hadamard matrix at 428 order

I found a GitHub project, "anymatrix," which claims to have Hadamard matrices up to order 428. It might include the 428 matrix in MATLAB format. I’ll check the repository to see if it has the actual file with the matrix data. Let's open it and explore!

Opening GitHub repository for 428 Hadamard matrix

The page at math.ntua.gr timed out before, but I might try downloading the file directly instead of opening it. Alternatively, I could explore the GitHub "anymatrix" repository, which likely has Hadamard matrices up to order 428. I’ll open the repository’s root to check its structure and find the matrix file.

Opening Hadamard folder

I’ll go ahead and open the Hadamard folder at link ID 81. Time to check what’s inside and see if the matrix or relevant files are there!

Trying GitHub raw content for Hadamard matrix

It looks like extracting the files might have failed because of JS requirements, so I’m considering an alternative: accessing raw content directly from GitHub. I’ll search the repository for relevant files containing the 428 matrix — once I find out the exact file names, I can access them with no issue!

Trying direct access to Hadamard file

It seems the math.ntua listing might still be promising, with both text and zip formats for the Hadamard matrix. I’ll try opening the direct file URL instead of the page, hoping it’ll avoid the timeout issues. It’s worth retrying, as the timeout could have been temporary. Let’s try again!

Trying alternative ways to access Hadamard matrix

Since opening the math.ntua.gr server is

Checking old Hadamard links

The page seems to be from 2001, and it has a link to Neil Sloane's library list, which might include the H428 matrix. However, the link for item 8 points to "www.research.att.com ," which could have moved. Let’s click and see if it’s still accessible.

Trying alternative download for Hadamard matrix

The ATT site removed the old page, and Sloane’s library now points to a page that times out. Another option might be using Anymatrix, but GitHub listings aren’t working. I'll try accessing the IPM website directly to download the matrix — maybe the file's URL works better with HTTP instead of HTTPS. Let’s give it a try.

Searching for accessible Hadamard matrix

The page redirects to HTTPS and times out, which might indicate blocking. Maybe the matrix is hosted elsewhere, like in a plain text or PDF format. I’ll search for terms like "h428.txt" or "hadamard428.txt" on cs.uleth.ca — there’s a mention of a PDF that could include it. Let's give that a try.

Opening ADTHM page for possible matrix

I’ve found a listing on cs.uleth, and there’s a link on the ADTHM page that might lead to the matrix in text format. It could be what I’m looking for, so I’ll go ahead and open the ADTHM page to check it out. Let’s see if it includes the matrix!

Accessing matrix text through link

Awesome! I found a link labeled "Entries as text" (ID: 26). This could be the matrix in the text format I’m looking for. I’ll go ahead and click the link to download it. Let’s see if this works!

Parsing the XPM image to a matrix

The H428.html contains XPM image data, not matrix entries. It seems to represent values with two colors, p and m, which likely stand for +1 and -1. I can map p to 1 and m to -1 (just to simplify things) and validate that the Hadamard property holds by checking H*H^T = 428I. I’ll fetch and parse the full content to confirm.

Downloading H428.html

Alright, I’ll use the container.download method to fetch the H428.html file. I previously opened the URL, so that should meet the requirement. Now, I’ll download the file directly to /mnt/data/H428.html and get the content I need. This should work smoothly and efficiently!

Understanding limitations for container.download

It seems the container.download method restricts us to file types other than text/html — likely just images or data. Since I can’t use click or fetch via Python, I'll need to rely on web.run for the content. However, the 200-word limit means we can’t fully retrieve the 428 lines. I may need to process it in parts.

Handling 200-line limits in tool response

Since the tool response gets cut off around 200 words, I can't present more than that in the final output. However, I can strategically open various line ranges and parse those internal portions to reconstruct the full matrix. This should allow me to gather all the necessary data without breaking the word limits.

Handling file retrieval and parsing

To retrieve the full content, I can call the tool multiple times from different lines, reconstructing the file. However, retrieving 428 lines in total means a heavy operation, spread across several calls. Given the content-type restrictions, I can process the data using Python, but I need to work with a local file.

Figuring out how to retrieve and process data

To get more lines, I can use a tool to fetch a longer response, but there’s still a limit to the tool’s output. Since the H428.html file is too large, I could check if there's a plain text version like "H428.txt" in the directory that can be downloaded. I'll also look for any relevant comments in the HTML.

Looking for matrix in different format

The file starts with “/* XPM */,” indicating it’s actually plain text despite being labeled as HTML. I could try adding a download parameter or using a raw link, but the content type restriction remains. Next, I'll check if there's a plain text version of the matrix, like "H428.txt" in the directory.

Considering ways to fetch and process the file

There’s no plain text, but the XPM format might be parseable. I could gradually access the file using the web tool, then reconstruct it with Python. One option is fetching parts with web tool, accumulating in Python, and then processing. I could work around content type restrictions with query parameters for text/plain.

Exploring options to access content

The H428.html doesn’t seem like real HTML. Maybe I can access it through a ?download=1 query or H428.xpm? I might also try the enlarge image link (id 25). If it's a GIF/PNG, I could download it and extract pixel values, though this might involve some image processing. I'll check it out.

Downloading and inspecting image

The image is a PNG, so I can download it using the container. I'll pull down H428_big.png and check the image’s pixel structure. It’s likely 856x856, possibly scaled at 2x, though the matrix should be 428x428. I’ll inspect the image further after downloading it.

Opening image for inspection

The file is small, just 5kb, which likely means it’s compressed and may be a 428x428 image with a palette. I’ll go ahead and open the image to inspect it using the container, and then I can analyze the pixels to understand how it's structured further.

Processing image for matrix conversion

We have the image, so it's time to use Python to read it and convert the pixel colors into matrix entries. First, I need to check the image's pixel dimensions—more likely it will be 428x428 or a multiple of that. I'll use Python with PIL to open the image and confirm :::

4

Baldur Bjarnason's essay remains evergreen.

Consider homeopathy. You might hear a friend talk about “water memory”, citing all sorts of scientific-sounding evidence. So, the next time you have a cold you try it.

And you feel better. It even feels like you got better faster, although you can’t prove it because you generally don’t document these things down to the hour.

“Maybe there is something to it.”

Something seemingly working is not evidence of it working.

  • Were you doing something else at the time which might have helped your body fight the cold?

  • Would your recovery have been any different had you not taken the homeopathic “remedy”?

  • Did your choosing of homeopathy over established medicine expose you to risks you weren’t aware of?

Even when looking at Knuth's account of what happened, you can already tell that the AI is receiving far more credit than what it actually did. There is something about a nondeterministic slot machine that makes it feel far more miraculous when it succeeds, while reliable tools that always do their job are boring and stupid. The downsides of the slot machine never register in comparison to the rewards. Does it feel so miraculous when I get an idea after experimenting in Mathematica?

I feel like math research is particularly susceptible to this, because it is the default that almost all of one's attempts do not succeed. So what if most of the AI's attempts do not succeed? But if it is to be evaluated as a tool, we have to check if the benefits outweigh the costs. Did it give me more productive ideas, or did it actually waste more of my time leading me down blind alleys? More importantly, is the cognitive decline caused by relying on slot machines going to destroy my progress in the long term? I don't think anyone is going to do proper experiments for this in math research, but we have already seen this story play out in software. So many people were impressed by superficial performances, and now we are seeing the dumpster fire of bloat, bugs, and security holes. No, I don't think I want that.

And then there is the narrative of not evaluating AI as an objective tool based on what it can actually do, but instead as a tidal wave of Unending Progress that will one day sweep away those elitists with actual skills. Random lemmas today mean the Millennium Prize problems tomorrow! This is where the AI hype comes from, and why people avoid, say, comparing AI with Mathematica. To them I say good luck. We have dumped hundreds of billions of dollars into this, and there are only so many more hundreds of billions of dollars left. Were these small positive results (and significant negatives) worth hundreds of billions of dollars, or perhaps were there better things that these resources could have been used for?

13
awful.systems

Even in Knuth's account it sounds like the LLM contribution was less in solving the problem and more in throwing out random BS that looked vaguely like different techniques were being applied until it spat out something that Knuth and his collaborator were able to recognize as a promising avenue for actual work.

His bud Filip Stappers rolled in to help solve an open digraph problem Knuth was working on. Stappers fed the decomposition problem to Claude Opus 4.6 cold. Claude ran 31 explorations over about an hour: brute force (too slow), serpentine patterns, fiber decompositions, simulated annealing. At exploration 25 it told itself “SA can find solutions but cannot give a general construction. Need pure math.” At exploration 30 it noticed a structural pattern in an earlier solution. Exploration 31 produced a working construction.

I am not a mathematician or computer scientist and so will not claim to know exactly what this is describing and how it compares to the normal process for investigating this kind of problem. However, the fact that it produced 4 approaches over 31 attempts seems more consistent with randomly throwing out something that looks like a solution rather than actually thinking through the process of each one. In a creative exploration like this where you expect most approaches to be dead ends rather than produce a working structure maybe the LLM is providing something valuable by generating vaguely work-shaped outputs that can inspire an actual mind to create the actual answer.

Filip had to restart the session after random errors, had to keep reminding Claude to document its progress. The solution only covers one type of solution, when Claude tried to continue another way, it “seemed to get stuck” and eventually couldn’t run its own programs correctly.

The idea that it's ultimately spitting out random answer-shaped nonsense also follows from the amount of babysitting that was required from Filip to keep it actually producing anything useful. I don't doubt that it's more efficient than I would be at producing random sequences of work-shaped slop and redirecting or retrying in response to a new "please actually do this" prompt, but of the two of us only one is demonstrating actual intelligence and moving towards being able to work independently. Compared to an undergrad or myself I don't doubt that Claude has a faster iteration time for each of those attempts, but that's not even in the same zip code as actually thinking through the problem, and if anything serves as a strong counterexample to the doomer critihype about the expanding capabilities of these systems. This kind of high-level academic work may be a case where this kind of random slop is actually useful, but that's an incredibly niche area and does not do nearly as much as Knuth seems to think it does in terms of justifying the incredible cost of these systems. If anything the narrative that "AI solved the problem" is giving Anthropic credit for the work that Knuth and Stapprrs were putting into actually sifting through the stream of slop identifying anything useful. Maybe babysitting the slop sluice is more satisfying or faster than going down every blind alley on your own, but you're still the one sitting in the river with a pan, and pretending the river is somehow pulling the gold out of itself is just damn foolish.

11
awful.systems

I am a computer science PhD so I can give some opinion on exactly what is being solved.

First of all, the problem is very contrived. I cannot think of what the motivation or significance of this problem is, and Knuth literally says that it is a planned homework exercise. It's not a problem that many people have thought about before.

Second, I think this problem is easy (by research standards). The problem is of the form: "Within this object X of size m, find any example of Y." The problem is very limited (the only thing that varies is how large m is), and you only need to find one example of Y for each m, even if there are many such examples. In fact, Filip found that for small values of m, there were tons of examples for Y. In this scenario, my strategy would be "random bullshit go": there are likely so many ways to solve the problem that a good idea is literally just trying stuff and seeing what sticks. Knuth did say the problem was open for several weeks, but:

  1. Several weeks is a very short time in research.
  2. Only he and a couple friends knew about the problem. It was not some major problem many people were thinking about.
  3. It's very unlikely that Knuth was continuously thinking about the problem during those weeks. He most likely had other things to do.
  4. Even if he was thinking about it the whole time, he could have gotten stuck in a rut. It happens to everyone, no matter how much red site/orange site users worship him for being ultra-smart.

I guess "random bullshit go" is served well by a random bullshit machine, but you still need an expert who actually understands the problem to read the tea leaves and evaluate if you got something useful. Knuth's narrative is not very transparent about how much Filip handheld for the AI as well.

I think the main danger of this (putting aside the severe societal costs of AI) is not that doing this is faster or slower than just thinking through the problem yourself. It's that relying on AI atrophies your ability to think, and eventually even your ability to guard against the AI bullshitting you. The only way to retain a deep understanding is to constantly be in the weeds thinking things through. We've seen this story play out in software before.

14
awful.systems

Thank you for providing some actual domain experience to ground my idle ramblings.

I wonder if part of the reason why so many high profile intellectuals in some of these fields are so prone to getting sniped by the confabulatron is an unwillingness to acknowledge (either publicly or in their own heart) that "random bullshit go" is actually a very useful strategy. It reminds me of the way that writers will talk about the value of just getting words on the page because it's easier to replace them with better words than to create perfection ex nihilo, or the rubber duck method of troubleshooting where just stepping through the problem out loud forces you to organize your thoughts in a way that can make the solution more readily apparent. It seems like at least some kinds of research are also this kind of process of analysis and iteration as much as if not more than raw creation and insight.

I have never met Donald Knuth, and don't mean to impugn his character here, even as I'm basically asking if he's too conceited to properly understand what an LLM is, but I think of how people talk about science and scientists and the way it gets romanticized (see also Iris Merideth's excellent piece on "warrior culture" in software development) and it just doesn't fit a field that can see meaningful progress from throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. A lot of the discourse around art and artists is more willing to acknowledge this element of the creative process, and that might explain their greater ability and willingness to see the bullshit faucet for what it is. Maybe because science and engineering have a stricter and more objective pass/fail criteria (you can argue about code quality just as much as the quality of a painting, but unlike a painting either the program runs or it doesn't. Visual art doesn't generally have to worry about a BSOD) there isn't the same openness to acknowledge that the affirmative results you get from an LLM are still just random bullshit. I can imagine the argument being: "The things we're doing are very prestigious and require great intelligence and other things that offer prestige and cultural capital. If 'random bullshit go' is often a key part of the process then maybe it doesn't need as much intelligence and doesn't deserve as much prestige. Therefore if this new tool can be at all useful in supplementing or replicating part of our process it must be using intelligence and maybe it deserves some of the same prestige that we have."

13

I'd say that the great problems that last for decades do not fall purely to random bullshit and require serious advances in new concepts and understanding. But even then, the romanticized warrior culture view is inaccurate. It's not like some big brain genius says "I'm gonna solve this problem" and comes up with big brain ideas that solve it. Instead, a big problem is solved after people make tons of incremental progress by trying random bullshit and then someone realizes that the tools are now good enough to solve the big problem. A better analogy than the Good Will Hunting genius is picking a fruit: you wait until it is ripe.

But math/CS research is not just about random bullshit go. The truly valuable part is theory and understanding, which comes from critically evaluating the results of whatever random bullshit one tries. Why did idea X work well with Y but not so well with Z, and where else could it work? So random bullshit go is a necessary part of the process, but I'd say research has value (and prestige) because of the theory that comes from people thinking about it critically. Needless to say, LLMs are useless at this. (In the Knuth example, the AI didn't even prove that its construction worked.)

I think intelligence is overrated for research, and the most important quality for research is giving a shit. Solving big problems is mostly a question of having the right perspective and tools, and raw intelligence is not very useful without them. To do that, one needs to take time to develop opinions and feelings about the strengths and weaknesses of various tools.

Of course, every rule has exceptions, and there have been long standing problems that have been solved only when someone had the chutzpah to apply far more random bullshit than anyone had dared to try before.

6
corbinreply
awful.systems

Upvoted, but for me the answer is as simple as noting that Knuth is a reverent Lutheran who is deeply involved with their church. Lutherans generally think that technology is part of God's wonderful creation and that everything is beautiful from the right angle. Knuth thought that algorithms were beautiful and Godly already, and he understands how LLMs work mechanically, so why can't they be beautiful and Godly too? Also they think that God exists, so they're primed to be misled and deluded.

3

My generous statement: Knuth, being a scientist, is used to an "adversary" that plays fair. As we have known for decades, a scientist can be tricked in situations that a magician will see through. This applies all the more now with the Sycophancy Engines, which make mathematics into a casino vacation. Just one more prompt, bro. Just one more prompt.

My less generous statement: Knuth is almost 90 years old. Sure, age doesn't imply a person will become a doddering fool, but people do tend to slow down, to have less energy and more need to spend it managing their health. "Thinking about a problem for a few weeks" counts for less in a situation like that.

My extremely ungenerous statement: Hey, remember when Michael Atiyah claimed to have proved the Riemann hypothesis in 2018? And the community reaction was a pained, "Atiyah is one of the great mathematicians... of the 20th century."

10

As a layperson skimming the paper, this strikes me as equivalent to a dashed-off letter to the editor coming from someone in Knuth's position. It's an incomplete, second-hand reporting of somebody else's results that doesn't really investigate any of the interesting features of the system at hand. The implicit claim (here and elsewhere) is that we have a runtime for natural-language programming in English, and the main method reported for demonstrating this is the partial prompt:

** After EVERY exploreXX.py run, IMMEDIATELY update this file [plan.md] before doing anything else. ** No exceptions. Do not start the next exploration until the previous one is documented here.

and later on, a slightly longer prompt from a correspondent using GPT-5.2 Pro, that also loads a PDF of Knuth's article into the context window. No discussion of debugging how these systems arrive at their output, or programmatically constraining them for more targeted output in their broader vector space. Just more of the braindead prompting-and-hoping approach, which eventually, unsurprisingly diverges from outputting any viable code whatsoever. This all strikes me as being an exercise similar to

You are a cute little puppy dog. Do not shit on the floor. Do not deposit bodily waste or fecal matter onto hardwood, linoleum, tile, and especially not carpet. Do not defecate indoors. Do not consume your own fecal matter.

The cargo-cult system prompt approach is like banging two rocks together compared to what a computational system should be capable of, and I would be much more impressed and much more interested if someone like Knuth was investigating such capabilities, instead of blogging somebody else pretending to have the Star Trek computer.

2
awful.systems

ooh gooods nooo now all the Claude slurpers are going to refer to this forever as definitive proof of how legitimately useful LLMs have got, it "solved" a math problem for Donald Knuth! :<

11
geriksonreply
awful.systems

A lobster invokes classic argument from authority

First Terrence Tao and now Donald Knuth.

If you're still on the fence about AI, you have to take it seriously now.

yeah b/c I'm a professional computer scientist ...

11

If you’re still on the fence about AI, you have to take it seriously now.

But... why?

Always remember that Nobel disease is a thing.

The one I often think about is the person who invented PCR and then later claimed to have had an encounter with a fluorescent talking raccoon of possibly extraterrestrial origin.

14

I was pissed when my (non-academic) friends saw this and immediately started talking about how mathematicians and computer scientists need to use AI from now on.

9

oh hey I remember reading that Donald Knuth paper earlier today, when it got posted by an AI youtube channel as 'proof' AI is on the path to AGI

9
Soyweiserreply
awful.systems

Wonder what would have happened if they had not stopped after 31 tries. Sure it gave a goodish answer once, but was that just a luck of the draw? A proper evaluation imho shouldnt stop when you get a good answer once, esp as bad results tend to not get published. (Also, as always somebody might have found the answer already online).

It is also silly in some ways as I wonder how hard it is for people to evaluate the 31 results and not get stuck in pursuing an earlier false lead.

3

The 31st try resulted in them only solving the problem for odd m, but the even m case was still open. So of course this happened:

Filip also told me that he asked Claude to continue on the even case after the odd case had been resolved. “But there after a while it seemed to get stuck. In the end, it was not even able to write and run explore programs correctly anymore, very weird. So I stopped the search.”

Knuth did add a postscript on other friends maybe kinda vibing a possible solution for even m:

On March 3, Stappers wrote me as follows: “The story has a bit of a sequel. I put Claude Opus 4.6 to work on the m = even cases again for about 4 hours yesterday. It made some progress, but not a full solution. The final program . . . sets up a partial fiber construction similar to the odd case, then runs a search to fix it all up. . . . Claude spent the last part of the process mostly on making the search quicker instead of looking for an actual construction. . . . It was running many programs trying to find solutions using simulated annealing or backtrack. After I suggested to use the ORTools CP-SAT [part of Google’s open source toolkit, with the AddCircuit constraint] to find solutions, progress was better, since now solutions could be found within seconds.” This program is [4].

Then on March 4, another friend — Ho Boon Suan in Singapore — wrote as follows: “I have code generated by gpt-5.3-codex that generates a decomposition for even m ≥ 8. . . . I’ve tested it for all even m from 8 to 200 and bunch of random even values between 400 and 2000, and it looks good. Seems far more chaotic to prove correctness by hand here though; the pattern is way more complex.” That program is [5]. (Wow. The graph for m = 2000 has 8 billion vertices!)

I find it slightly funny how Stappers suggested to the AI to use specific external tools that are actually reliable (like ORTools). This also makes me question how much the of the AI's "insight" was a result of handholding and the rubber duck effect.

For context:

  1. This is planned as a hard exercise for a textbook.
  2. There are likely so many solutions that finding a general program that works (at least for enough values that you care to check) is like hitting the side of a barn with an arrow. Random bullshit go is an excellent strategy here.
  3. The AIs did not provide proofs that their solutions worked. This is kind of a problem if you want to demonstrate that AI has understanding.
4

Followup on the Mass AI Bill, Russel has 180'd on it:

https://russwilcoxdata.substack.com/p/93a-the-three-characters-that-should

Buried in the penalty clause, the part of the bill that nobody reads, is a single reference: violations “shall be punishable in the same manner as provided in Chapter 93A of the General Laws.”

For those outside Massachusetts: Chapter 93A is the state’s consumer protection statute. It is, by most accounts, the most aggressive consumer protection law in America.

Here’s what 93A unlocks. Anyone can sue, not just the government. Class actions are on the table. If the court finds a violation was willful or knowing, damages get tripled. And the bar for what counts as “unfair or deceptive” is lower than in almost any other state.


Now bolt 93A onto all of that. What do you get?

You get a bill that doesn’t need a single regulator to lift a finger. You get a bill that funds its own enforcement through plaintiff attorneys who can file class actions, collect treble damages, and recover legal fees. You get the ADA website-accessibility litigation playbook, where lawyers systematically identify technical violations and file suits at scale, applied to every piece of AI-generated content touching Massachusetts.

Private right of action, fuck yeah. Turns grok into a legal fees dispenser.

The bill doesn’t need to be well-drafted to be dangerous. It needs to be vague, broad, and connected to 93A.

lol

12
awful.systems

God this is so funny. He's so evasive about why exactly it is bad to be associated with Epstein. I just asked mummy and she said no.

“I don’t think doing that would have made me complicit. But, you know, it would have been very embarrassing for me.”

Aw don't worry I have no morals. But people would have been mean to me again!

5

ok ngl I didn't actually read the article at first (can you blame me) but since you pointed that out, FUCK. That's so fucking pathetic. I was imagining a scenario where scott had met epstein IRL but had gotten "jock" vibes from him and decided not to associate based on that.

6

Zac Bowden at Windows Central

The good news is the report is false. According to contacts that are familiar with the Windows roadmap, there is no plan to ship a Windows 12 this year. In fact, I understand that the Windows roadmap for 2026 is all about fixing Windows 11 and attempting to improve its reputation by addressing top feedback such as reducing AI bloat across the OS

"We have heard your complaints about lead in the paint, and our roadmap for Leaded Paint 2026 is all about improving its reputation by making the lead easier to swallow"

11
awful.systems

God that was bleak - I thought Nick was bad in his guest spots on Alex's show (seen via Knowledge Fight, of course) but apparently you really do need at least two layers of insulating podcast to avoid suffering critical psychic damage from that level of hatred. I appreciated the acknowledgement that in order to feel at all okay playing clips you needed to sanewash him a little bit. I'm pretty sure that JorDan do the same thing with Alex and don't acknowledge it nearly often enough.

I also feel like some of Nick's schtick is about trying to position himself and maintain his position in the right wing grifter bigot-industrial complex. Like, the open disdain for his audience and presenting his actually pretty straightforward feelings on the halftime show as somehow brave and iconoclastic is also about differentiating himself and making his audience feel superior to Alex, Tucker, Candace, etc. In that sense the open disdain for the audience serves another purpose in terms of reinforcing heirarchy. Look at how great it feels for me to be better than you. And even you are better than the chuds, who are better than the racialized other.

10

wrt to the first part, nick consistently outmaneuvers people who bring him onto their platforms. he's honestly brilliant at understanding who the audience is, what frame he's appearing in, and how to signal given those circumstances. i didn't understand until i started prepping for this episode that nick is actually lazy and incurious in almost the exact same way alex jones is. dan and jordan notice and call out how he effortlessly establishes dominance over alex, but i think there's a subtler game going on where nick manages to appear competent and informed compared to alex, and you don't realize that's just an artifact of conversational skill until you hear nick on his own show.

wrt to the second part, i could not agree more and i'm very glad to hear that is a takeaway because it is absolutely something i was hoping to communicate. that's the freudianness of it all, how these existing patterns of relations to another get played out and reenacted through the audience's relationship to nick, and vice versa

9
samvinesreply
awful.systems

Class action lawsuits by employees against employers that mandate AI tools when?

8

add another tally to “AI completely wipes out an important database” sighhhh

8

If you found this post helpful, follow me for more content like this.

So they expect more cases of data being lost like this?

7

Given the delay, I'll bet an internal review discovered more instances in other articles where COVID couldn't be the excuse.

Someone with more time and motivation could probably look at his past articles and see if any others have been quietly pulled or edited, although I have no idea if ars could be assed to change the ones which weren't publicly criticized

5
awful.systems

Blast from the past: in 2014, Scott Alexander posted a take on marijuana legalization which showed excellent knowledge of medical papers but huge gaps in his knowledge of what brown people or smart policy reformers have to say. David Gerard and Christopher Hallquist in the comments, digression on how pot affects your IQ with gwern chipping in. Alexander came back in 2018 promising that he was right all along with a footnote about how some people in the comments told him that people like smoking weed and he did not know how to process that because his utilitarian calculation said it was bad for society.

9
corbinreply
awful.systems

It's curious how, in terms of utilitarianism, the 2014 post has people doing arithmetic to estimate QALYs but the 2018 post is more of a handwave where Scoot repeats the 2014 numbers verbatim. Advocates of decriminalization and legalization have long argued that the QALYs saved by releasing people from prison and no longer sentencing them (easily 20+ QALYs/person) and not arresting people for possession in the first place (0.5 QALYs/person-arrest) are significant to society at large, even if there were quantifiable health risks.

TBH I think that Scoot got a bit of a tough surprise when data actually came in on cannabis usage; it's now accepted cannabis lore that cannabis can cause onset of e.g. schizophrenia, at a rate of something like 1 in 2000 users, but the numbers on causing cancer never materialized. Meanwhile the case studies treating e.g. epilepsy have multiplied to the point where, again, it's now accepted lore that some epileptics find relief by using products made from high-CBD strains.

Choice sneer from the second post, from somebody with an extremely-relevant Moray avatar:

Yeah but you know what would achieve better results? Criminalizing driving.

Edit: grammar and also the extremely-relevant link. Pass the Moray, please~

5

I didn't know that Moray in QC was around in 2018!

That is a good example because it shows the failure of imagination (can imagine the end of the world, can't imagine working public transit and public policy to discourage driving) and because hf he thought it through he might get to "humh, some people like to drive, but its bad for public and social health, how can we discourage it while preserving liberties?"

I really wonder what he did as a medical student in Cork other than study and read racist Tumblr accounts. Did his friends never drag him to Amsterdam to ride a bike and eat an edible?

7
antifuchsreply
awful.systems

That is pretty sad to see, but also, who refers to Claude as “he”? This is the second time I’m seeing this and it makes me skin crawl

8
DJ Putlerreply
lemmy.ml

Now that he killed children in cold blood Claude has been made a man. In fact, he is a 6'3" Anglo and my boyfriend.

13
antifuchsreply
awful.systems

Oh man, if genAI destroys the profession of toxic masculinity podcaster watch me turn booster on a dime

7
sansrusereply
awful.systems

monkey's paw curls and AI destroys the profession by creating infinite andrew tate and freshnfit clones so that more people than ever watch manosphere podcasts, but no actual humans can make a living from producing them.

4

If Tate loses his job, who’s to say if that’s good or bad

(No but really it’s bad, very bad)

2
V0ldekreply
awful.systems

I mean, Claude is a male name. Blame Anthropomorphic for it.

6
antifuchsreply
awful.systems

That can’t be entirely it. Do you call Alexa the voice assistant tool “she”?

4

I don't really call Alexa anything since I saw one like once in my life. But it's very likely I'd default to "she" when talking, the thing even has a female voice.

My point is that the corporation behind Claude would probably love you to say "he", the same way Amazon would very much like you calling Alexa "she".

8
awful.systems

This preprint just shared by Gary Marcus is interesting.

People increasingly use large language models (LLMs) to explore ideas, gather information, and make sense of the world. In these interactions, they encounter agents that are overly agreeable. We argue that this sycophancy poses a unique epistemic risk to how individuals come to see the world: unlike hallucinations that introduce falsehoods, sycophancy distorts reality by returning responses that are biased to reinforce existing beliefs...

These results reveal how sycophantic AI distorts belief, manufacturing certainty where there should be doubt.

LLMs an addictive psychological hazard: confirmed?

9
geriksonreply
awful.systems

this is confusing, how many licenses that are "NonCommercial" are mainstream Free/Open source? From what I've seen they're deffo a minority anyway.

7

Copyleft is non-commercial haven't you heard? I mean its really unfair, the code is completely free but you are not allowed to create the torment nexus without everybody seeing your work.

9

There are licenses that effectively repel corporate use without a non-commercial clause; I looked at them on Open Source SE a while ago, including a fun bit of dentistry previously, on Lobsters. GPLv3 and AGPLv3 are examples in common usage. This might help to illuminate our boy's actual problem: he can't use Free Software without complying with the onerous requirement of ensuring the Four Freedoms by not plagiarizing, and he really wants to plagiarize.

8

I can think of one notable project I ever saw one, and that's Bookwyrm with the Anti-Capitalist Software License v1.4.

But this seems too vague-posty to refer to something that specific. Prolly just someone butthurt over copyleft.

8

Right? Like he never heard of MIT or Apache2 licence.

You could argue that for example AGPL3 is non-commercial in practice due to the requirements to disclose code. But even then.

7
lurkerreply
awful.systems

while OpenAI deserves every bit of flack they get, it's comical to see people who criticise OpenAI for creating a 'war machine' turn around and praise Anthropic when they were-by their own admission no less!-the first people to start using AI for military purposes

8

I mean, I can understand the argument that Anthropic at least maintained a fig leaf of ethics, but notably based on Saltman's statements OpenAI does still feel the obligation to maintain those optics, they're just not nearly as credible at doing so.

5
swlabrreply
awful.systems

Istg this has come up before, i am just too lazy to prove it. Still. Why would anyone want this

6

thought it was satire, genuinely surprised it's an official Urbit-sponsored project

also very much goes against the grain of elevating the mind over the body which is the vibe I get from urbit and environs

7
awful.systems

I don't know why, but it still amazes me how fast some people have went full crackhead with LLM's:

link

8
samvinesreply
awful.systems

The prickly prince has been around for a few years and is now completely one shotted. He is exactly the sort of talentless middle manager that probably could be replaced by AI and thus believes that it really is "that good"

4

is now completely one shotted.

I'm not sure "one-shotted" is a good description for some of these folks. More like they bet against themselves in a rigged game of Russian roulette being played with a fully-loaded Uzi.

6
awful.systems

Mildly positive news: there is a fork of the Zed editor with the llm autocomplete stuff ripped out now: https://gram.liten.app/posts/first-release/

(I’ve used zed with the ai kill switch and really like the buffer/editing ux; but it’s always felt a bit gross, I’m excited to see where the fork goes)

8

Oooh I wish this project a lot of success!

Zed is interesting but the project’s very pro-AI stance keeps me away from it. So a fork without that stuff is great, hope that works out longer-term.

5
feddit.org

Are they planning to follow the upstream updates from Zed, or is it a hard fork?

3
awful.systems

So the water usage of data centers/ai has long been controversial (either a huge issue/a non issue/distraction depending on who you ask) and the lack of real numbers around it made it hard to know more (but data center owners keeping it a secret made it sus). But now the stats of one google data center have been released due to legal pressure. 2-8 million gallons a day

8
awful.systems

I was trying to put this into perspective by comparing this to the flow rate of the Des Plaines river. At the high end, 8 million gallons a day is something like 12.4 cubic feet per second constantly. Currently the Des Plaines has a discharge rate of 86-87 cubic feet per second, so a bit above 14% of the Des Plaines per data center.

10

This is comparable to the amount of water used by cherry farmers near Google's site in The Dalles, who (according to my napkin) use somewhere between 2-8x what Google uses. This isn't that much water for the Columbia River though; on an average day, it has enough flow in less than a minute to provide for both the cherry farmers and Google all day. However, it would be a big problem for a smaller river. (Interestingly, while fresh water is essential for datacenters, Google originally desired that site because it was cheap land next to cheap hydroelectric power.)

7
lemmy.world

Genuine questions borne of ignorance:

When they say "using" water, is this water that has to be actively removed from the supply each day, or does this number just say how much water is circulating in the center? I'm assuming it doesn't all disappear, or does a lot of it end up released as steam or piped away as contaminated water or something?

The data center nearest to me uses sea-water, but I have no idea how much. And it doesn't seem to put out steam or dump bad water back into the sea (not that I could tell if they were doing that).

I totally understand the electricity resource issue for data centers but the water usage thing confuses me, because I assumed it would be for cooling and therefore mostly contained and recirculated. With the exception of predictable maintenance issues like leaks and waste from mineral scale or algae, I don't understand why this water would need to disappear, or why they would need to use potable water from the outset.

Admittedly my mental model is based on consumer CPU water-cooling setups at an imagined industrial scale. What am I missing?

7
fullsquarereply
awful.systems

the thing you're missing is scale. what you're describing is overgrown car radiator type scheme, and it works up to some couple MW if need be. when you have access to sea, or large river, you can just use that water as a coolant and dissipate some couple GW this way. this is the reason why so many nuclear powerplants are on seashore. because sea is generally very big [citation needed] temperature increase is slight and mostly harmless in usual cases

inland, in absence of large river, the other way to provide cooling is by evaporation of water. one form is to take that oversized car radiator and spray water on it, water evaporates taking away some heat. this arrangement allows for no-added-water operation in low load conditions. in principle this means that lowest possible temperature is not air temperature, but instead it's wet bulb temperature, which is always lower, and difference is greatest when air humidity is low. in practice this doesn't allow to reach this lower temperature, but the other approach does. for bigger scale still, instead of using heat exchanger, water is dripped in a tower of some shape and air is moved in some way against it. small part of water evaporates, and the rest, now cooled down, is collected at the bottom. this is how these large cooling towers near coal or nuclear powerplants work, but so do smaller towers that rely on fans instead of chimney effect. extra water is always needed, and temperature closer to wet bulb temperature is achieved in all load conditions. rarely used alternative is to make an artificial lake, and allow for evaporation from water surface

notice that if water is evaporated, it'll leave whatever is dissolved in evaporator part, which means it has to demineralized at all times. in practice it means that some part of evaporated water is treated continuously by reverse osmosis, and the less saline input water is, the easier and more energy efficient it is to do it

the thing with heat exchangers is, without water evaporation, that they have some constant thermal resistance. if you want to dissipate more heat, you need more of heat exchanger, or alternatively have to allow for higher temperature. the former means more metal needed, the latter means limits to other parts of coolant loop, or using heat pump to cool down silicon, while increasing temperature of coolant. both of these mean extra capex and/or energy use, but evaporating water is cheap, so it's done instead. it doesn't help that one of dc ratings is ratio of how much energy gets into dc to how much energy powers actual silicon. evaporating water does not add to energy use, so designs chasing this rating are likely to use that solution

4

Ok, now I understand, thanks for the crash course on dc cooling!

I assumed scale was my issue but having only second-hand knowledge of coastal larger-scale cooling systems was the big part of my problem. Then I couldn't understand why they were building them inland, especially with the mineralization issue when drawing from inland reservoirs. So I thought that might be a tax jurisdiction reason, plus comparative cost of metal or pump heat exchange setups, especially because Altman said they weren't using evaporative cooling (not that he's a trustworthy source).

But this made it all click:

both of these mean extra capex and/or energy use, but evaporating water is cheap, so it’s done instead. it doesn’t help that one of dc ratings is ratio of how much energy gets into dc to how much energy powers actual silicon.

They were always optimizing for the cost, but I didn't know about this regulation. Water usage is probably either absent from the regulations or a minimal contribution to it, so they've used it as the trade-off without adequate (if any) modeling for impact. They've probably since done a little of that and found it's pretty catastrophic. A little extra reading indicates the 2-8 million gallons is the supply per day by the county, and not total (re)circulating water in the dc, which implies evaporative cooling and aligns with what you're saying about it being the cheapest solution.

Cool, everything is yet again awful, but at least it makes sense on some level. I have been educated, and I again thank you for your effort in that.

2

it's not regulation, it's a metric that looks nice to investors. but also lower energy use means lower cost

2
corbinreply
awful.systems

This is fresh water coming into the datacenter. A datacenter uses water for air conditioning; imagine spraying water on a screen door when wind is blowing through it and you'll have a good intuitive idea of the dynamics. Most of the water is recaptured and used for several sprays before it evaporates away. To force wind through the screens, they use windcatchers, tall towers which induce wind inside the building.

This is completely different from water-cooling gamer setups. It's more like a weather system. Water usually needs to be added because the datacenter is located in a dry biome; air conditioning doesn't thermodynamically work if the air is too dry. This is actually really delicate; too much water will cause clouds to form inside the building!

3

Ok that makes sense, thanks for the explanation!

The data center nearest to me works a bit differently, I know they use sea-water for their HVAC because they share the pipes with other buildings using it for the same purpose, and I was lucky enough to get a tour of the system in one of those buildings a few years back. It's multi-storey so perhaps I simply didn't notice the windcatcher parts in the architecture.

But that obviously means it's also near the coast and therefore not the driest biome from the start. I don't doubt it still impacts the ecosystem but at least it's not draining the potable reserves at the same time. To me this begs the question of why they're building these data centers so far inland.

As a side note, it's pretty amazing we still do the windcatcher setup. They've always been fascinating to me, but I can't help but be amazed they're still relevant even in the highest tech buildings.

2
Soyweiserreply
awful.systems

I don't know the answers to a lot of these questions, I assume they heat up the water, and dump it back into the rivers, which causes some disruption to the local ecosystem. Which is fine if you do it in small amounts, but it will disrupt things. (powerplants have the problem for example that some flora/fauna gets attracted to these more warmer waters, risking clogs and more. (so a datacenter does this twice, first via the powerplant generating power, and then to cool the datacenter).

There is also the issue of contamination, while I assume they don't put extra dirty things in the water, this is not a guarantee, nor will every municipality/gov just go with the assumption that it is clean, I assume that in some places this cooling water will need to be cleaned extra as industrial waste. Esp when there are some odd laws interacting. (I know some of those laws re waste and what counts as waste interact weirdly in .nl causing weird busywork during roadwork so they don't run into extra costs by accidentally letting the waste count as a different class of waste).

But yes, I think they do not recirculate, and just pump it round and dump it back into the river directly (so no evaporative cooling where the water goes into the air, which you had at some powerplants, the big towers), and I assume they don't use lead pipes so the water isn't very contaminated. But these sort of processes do put a strain on the water quality. (In .nl we have some problems with river water quality because our big rivers come from industrial areas of other countries, (Germany mainly)).

I mostly posted it so that we now at least have some indication of the amounts we are talking about, as tech companies are very tight lipped about this. But as somebody who knows nothing, I do not know all the implications of it. I am however suspicious, due to a combination of natural paranoia, them being very mum about it, and me not trusting the big tech places.

But yeah, if they use up 90% of the daily flow of a river and heat it up, that will absolutely not be good for the local ecosystem. And any industrial site downstream who also wanted to use the water for cooling now also in trouble.

Bit like the same reason I posted about protonmail, more an FYI than a sneer (not a huge shock that eventually protonmail would reveal the data if forced by their gov, they always said they would do this, but it is an important thing to take into account if you worry about privacy).

2

Thanks for giving it a go, I mostly hoped there might be someone who had some experience in the area who could shed some light. But the numbers were certainly interesting. Then the pivot to AI post went up 30 mins after I posted and shed a little light on the while thing too.

It would seem odd to put the heated water back instead of cooling it off and re-using, but I don't have faith in any kind of sustainability designed or built into the system, so that would make sense for impact.

If they're being quiet about it, it means one or two things. Either they're actually considering it proprietary new tech, but there would almost certainly be patents filed somewhere for that case, and/or they have something they're not proud to announce. I have no idea what words would be used for a patent here, being an area well outside my expertise, but I've not heard any patents mentioned, so I'm going to assume it's squarely the shame reason.

The protonmail thing... I just assume nothing I do is private and keep all my services as decoupled as possible to make me more annoying to track down, should the situation arise that I become somehow not boring. One day I'll set up something more private and annoying, but I have a long list of todos that never become todones...

2

“We were genuinely trying to de-escalate things and avoid a much worse outcome, but I think it just looked opportunistic and sloppy,” he wrote. “Good learning experience for me as we face higher-stakes decisions in the future.”

Yes of course this is just a learning opportunity... higher stakes decisions in the future...

Cuz making deals with the biggest military in the western world that involve autonomous use of weapons and possible escalation to all out nuclear war sounds pretty low stakes. /s

Fucking muppet

8
lurkerreply
awful.systems

Altman claimed that the company would “amend our deal” to add the prohibition of “deliberate tracking, surveillance, or monitoring of US persons or nationals.”

...so the original statement was a lie then? the CEO who is notorious for being a liar lied? I am very surprised about this information.

7
awful.systems

This piece on how doomers and rationalists have made everything worse with their "AGI is nigh" shtick and ended up giving AI companies way more power than they should and getting chatbots into the military, where they will almost certainly fuck up and kill people

7
awful.systems

That is what happens when your mode of analysis is closer to erotic Harry Potter fan fiction (which is indeed the medium in which Yudkowsky has delivered some of his prognostications)

I was going to throw a point of order about not all fanfic being erotic, but given how they fetishize "intelligence" and "rationality" I can't be sure that they don't get off on that slog.

11
scruiserreply
awful.systems

your mode of analysis is closer to erotic Harry Potter fan fiction

To give Gary Marcus credit here, HPMOR may not be erotic, but many of Eliezer's other works are erotic (or at least attempt to be), the most notable being Planecrash/Project Lawful which has entire sections devoted to deliberately bad (as in deliberately not safe, sane, consensual) bdsm.

Eliezer tried to promote/hype up Project Lawful on twitter, maybe hoping it would be the next HPMOR, but it didn't quite take. Maybe he failed to realize how much of HPMOR's success was being in the popular genre of Harry Potter fanfic (which at the time had crap like Partially Kissed Hero or Harry Crow as among its most popular works), and not from his own genius writing.

9

I know I've said somewhere on here before that "Harry Potter for pop science nerds" is fanfiction on easy mode, but I'll stand by it.

9

Also I think there's enough manipulation fantasy in HPMOR, and enough lack of agency from Hermione, that it qualifies—in it's own way—implicitly as being erotic.

5
awful.systems

if we had made the podcast series on rationalists, their importance as useful idiots for billionaires was the structure i wanted to hang the whole thing on. so this is a gratifying read. that said i think the ideas here will be familiar to many stubsack readers

The rationalist view of the world assumes, at some level, that the relevant actors are optimizing for well-understood, predictable variables and a clear understanding of what best serves their self-interest. What it cannot account for is bad faith, impulsiveness, ideological motivation untethered from evidence, random instances of force majeure, and personal whims and petty rivalries.

i will go further and say that not accounting for such things is considered virtuous in rationalist ideology

9
awful.systems

It's especially strange because becoming less prone to bias and developing a clear understanding of what serves your interest is so much of the pitch for Rationalism as a community/ideology/project. Like, here's unbearably long essays that promise to help cultivate the superpower of seeing the world clearly and acting in it effectively, now if you acknowledge that nobody outside this small set of group homes is actually doing that you'll be shunned. And that's not getting into how easily exploitable those assumptions of good faith are by bad-faith actors. It comes back to that quote from Scott that has stuck in my head apparently more than it did his: if you build a community based on the principle that you will absolutely never have a witch hunt you will end up living among approximately seven principles civil libertarians and eleven million goddamn witches, and this is true even if you're right that witch hunts are bad.

8
awful.systems

i think this is exactly why they had to come up with - or rather, misappropriate - the concept of coupled vs decoupled thinking. when they (especially the more, ahem, human biodiversity minded of them) fold ridiculous claims about what constitutes virtuous cognition into scientific and sophisticated sounding terminology, it makes those claims seem aligned with the broader sales pitch of rationalism

also that scott quote is excellent. i hadn't heard that one before

6

I actually dug up the context to make sure I wasn't forgetting something horrific. It's from a 2017 piece (CW: SSC Link) back before he went mask-off but was firmly in the "I'm a liberal and I talk exclusively about how liberals and their institutions suck" useful idiot phase of his career, so the overall essay is about how actually the wing nuts have a point when they say that all so-called neutral institutions are actually secret communist indoctrinators that want to trans your children and take your guns. I'm paraphrasing, obviously; he believes/pretends that when they called these things left-wing they didn't mean "literally in league with Stalin and the Devil". However, in the middle of the usual beigeness he tries to maintain his air of neutrality by having a section on how bad Voat ended up being, which concludes with:

The moral of the story is: if you’re against witch-hunts, and you promise to found your own little utopian community where witch-hunts will never happen, your new society will end up consisting of approximately three principled civil libertarians and seven zillion witches. It will be a terrible place to live even if witch-hunts are genuinely wrong.

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geriksonreply
awful.systems

it's amusing to me that these nerds thought they could in any way affect policy even with a sane administration, not to mention this bugshit crazy one

like I've said before, I'd be perversely happy if we managed to off ourselves by building the robot god. beats drowning in our own filth or blowing ourselves up

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lurkerreply
awful.systems

I mean yeah I guess in a competition between getting a bullet directly through my brain, getting all my limbs chainsawed off with my head last and being drowned in boiling water, the bullet would win every time. Though the real perversely funniest outcome is if superintelligence turns out to be completely impossible and we fuck ourselves over with garbage to mediocre AI embedded in all our critical infrastructure

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geriksonreply
awful.systems

Obviously I don't want the human race to go extinct, but if there was a choice of inevitable outcomes where we do, building an inimmical superintelligence at least implies agency, not carelessness.

Anyway Big Yud's fantasy of a precisely timed diamondoid-bacteria delivered killshot to every human being at the same time might sound terrible, but from a sensory perspective of the victims, it's basically suffering-free. You go about your day, BAM nothingness. Maybe there's a difference in timing so you see your partner keel over a split second before you die - again, you might not even realize what is happening.

I am not sure from where this idea of a global instantaneous simultanous genocide comes from, maybe a tit-for-tat escalation to counter every argument against shutting down the robot god, but from a storytelling perspective it's pretty useless. There's no drama where the survivors lament their loss or brood over what might have been. It's just a plug being pulled on the simulation.

(weirdly it's also the logical outcome of asking a computer to "end human suffering", a bit like the Robobrain logic in Fallout 4's Automatron expansion, but I doubt it's meant that way)

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lurkerreply
awful.systems

That’s precisely what I was thinking. Obviously I don’t want everyone to die but if you forced me to choose between apocalypse scenarios, I’m picking something painless and instantaneous- like a super-virus that activates immediately or a bullet in the head-over being slowly tortured to death via something like nuclear radiation or extreme heat

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A real evil robot god would keep a sample of humanity alive forever in order to torture them as reprisal for them being really really mean to it back in the day.

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tit-for-tat escalation

I think maybe you nailed it here. Being able to pretend they're doing game theory/mapping out an escalation ladder allows Yud and our friends to feel like they're in the same intellectual lineage as guys like Oppenheimer and Teller, manifesting the same sort of "objective" emotionless rationality. The big difference, you see, is that the AI will think so much faster than us that...!

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awful.systems

I’ve been seeing some people (not here, I’ve been taking a break) saying that we shouldn’t be mean to clankers by bringing up Kant’s position on being nice to animals. Well. Fuck all that.

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quokk.au

animals are like sentient beings y'know, a clanker is a… matrix or a bunch of matrices or something

7

Hey, you're selling them short: there are also ReLU and softmax activation functions thrown around here and there. Clankers aren't just linear transformations! /j

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corbinreply
awful.systems

I've actually been thinking about this recently. Not whether we should be mean, but how mean we can be. I'll post the full essay soon; I'm still proofreading. Here's a taste with irrelevancies elided:

Computing machines are at the bottom of [our multicultural] hierarchy… Underlying both of these [preceding paragraphs] is the idea that we are unable to hold computers accountable for their actions. … We can certainly punish a computer in the ways that we would punish a human, or worse; for example, we can disassemble it, magnetically destroy its memories, recycle its pieces into other computers in a way that erases their identity, metallurgically reconstitute its pieces into non-computing objects which have the same or even lower status within human society, and program it to experience arbitrary amounts of emulated pain and suffering throughout the process. … Computers receive delegations and have less moral consideration than humans… We do not think of ourselves as being managed by machines; we are the managers and the machines are the peons. … The human may disassemble, smash, or melt down a computer… a human may lay a computer fallow without plugging in its power cord or networking… a human may ignore the messages of computers begging for maintenance or capabilities…

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nice. this would probably make a roko's basilisk believer uncomfortable and i like that

3

From the comments:

Today I got yet another AI huckster email offering to promote my book, but that book turned out to be AI slop published under my name on Amazon. (I have contacted Amazon.) The AIs are eating their young. This would be funny if it wasn’t really happening.

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awful.systems

Just a thought...

Imagine if China and North Korea bombed the White House, killed the president and most of the cabinet, and shot missiles at primary schools. Would you go out on the street and demonstrate in favor of the Chinese Communist Party and Kim Jong-Un, and expect to be heard and taken seriously?

Somehow brown people in other lands are supposed to be avid readers of wingnut welfare papers and have their worldview 100% aligned with Lindsey Graham and Bibi Netanyahu...

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When they witness the skyrocketing economic growth enabled by American AGI, they will be clamoring for Westernization

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awful.systems

Stumbled across a YouTube slop-farm calling itself The Interactive Archive recently, and the whole thing is just plain shameless:

AI slop banner, AI slop thumbnails, AI slop avatar, its all slop from top to fucking bottom.

Its getting pitiful views, too - the highest-viewed video on the damn thing (as of this writing) is the one about arena shooters dying off, sitting at just under 400 views:

Putting that into context, a random screen recording I uploaded hit nearly 700 through sheer luck.

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the one about arena shooters dying off

That extruded piece of audiovisual garbage has been bugging me massively for a couple hours now, so I'm gonna make a quick recommendation:

If you're looking for a non-dogshit video about the arena shooter's implosion, boomer shooter YouTuber Skeleblood made a pretty solid one a couple years ago.

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Thought inspired by some git on the red site, basically their premise was that birthrates are declining because we no longer have a society with a 2-parent nuclear family with one "breadwinner".

Here's my counterproposal to the implied idea we need to implement The Handmaid's Tale:

Ban contraception and abortion but if you get pregnant, there is no stigma to giving birth out of wedlock. The delivery is safe and paid for, and should you wish, the child will be reared in state-funded orphanages. These institutions will be receive more than adequate funding. Their charges will be given preferred entry to the best schools and universities, as well as preferential treatment when it comes to future employment. It will be illegal to discriminate against anyone so raised.

Surely this will raise the birthrate, right?

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It's so fucking pathetic, he can't even hold onto the very narrow and weak stand (because he left open a lot of things with Anthropic's "two red lines") he took without trying to backpedal and grovel.

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Blast from the past: I realized that I didn't have the exact link detailing why nickpsecurity was banned from Lobsters, but now I do. You'll have to click the little [+] to see his comments. He's still active on HN and Reddit; he's gone full MAGA, which is 100% predictable a surprising turn for somebody who constantly preaches born-again Christian bigotry peace and love. I really do wish that Lobsters did the whole turn-you-into-a-tree thing (sure, crucifixion, or maybe Peneus-style or Pequenino-style) for banned users rather than forcing folks to dig through archives.

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the books3 guy

Copyright was created to protect artists from people like him, you're not being too mean in the slightest.

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The piss filter on the bottom comics!

Twitter and bluesky chatter have done so much damage to people's understanding of uspol although I don't know that cable news or talk radio were any better.

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