Just because Trump also breaks international law, doesn't make it better when Putin does it (and not the first time either). Yes, Russia Man Bad! 👍🏻 Orange Man Also Bad!
Joe Biden supported and enabled the genocide in Gaza, and every president before him committed invasions and war crimes. The fact that you think it's just a Trump thing and not a US empire thing reveals your geopolitical understanding to be puddle-deep. Hell, Putin was our guy. We put him there.
That is not an excuse to forgo object permanence and pretend Trump is an anomaly in any way except for how blatant he is. He's not a deviation from US policy, he's a distillation of it.
Liberals were happy to close their eyes and support genocide when it was covered by the thinnest veil of decorum
Russia: Engaged in a military operation because of ever encroaching US imperialism via NATO and installing a Nazi puppet government against the wishes of the Ukrainian people as is the norm and attempting to liberate them
Why is attacking the outer reaches of Ukraine then, when NATO and US imperialism are the problem? Also how is the government nazi with two Jews in it's cabinet of ministers? You know, the central part of Nazism is the antisemitism. Pretty weak excuses for an invasion.
Typical lib selective memory. Ukraine has been attempting drone swarms into Moscow targeting civilians for half a year at least, just recently struck at Putin's houses to attempt a decapitation strike.
Oreshnik is a good reminder that if they really wanna throw away conventions of war, they don't have a single way to intercept what would come back to them. Even then, the targets were completely legitimate and civilian casualties minimal (despite Ukraine regularly setting up bases in civilian centers, which is a flagrant war crime)
Regarding your edit: Obama was the president of the most racist country on earth ffs. There were plenty of Jewish SS members. Y'all have had it explained to you for ages and you turn around and say it again verbatim next time because you're not interested in learning, you're just cheering for your team and it makes me not at all surprised that y'all choose the guys in Nazi garb with Nazi insignias saying they're going to do Nazi stuff first chance they get.
I agree, but only one of those 2 countries has proclaimed (in law if im not mistaken, but i may be wrong) that they would intervene militarily to prevent one of their own from being tried by the ICC, regardless of the actual crimes they've committed. And im talking about sending special forces to extract said alleged criminal against humanity, from another sovereign nation, abiding by its own laws.
Guess which of the 2 I'm talking about? Russia is by no means the good guy, but its not a binary issue, as most people on the internet seem to react when these 2 countries are mentioned in the same sentence. Russia being 'bad' doesn't automatically make the US 'good' and vice versa.
Sure, who's worse shifts back and forth over the years, but to my eyes, currently, the US is worse, and its been that way for a long time. Way before trump. Anyone who thinks this all started when trump took office, is a bit deluded.
But you're 100% right, send both of them to the ICC, in an ideal world.
Calling the court "a pathetic international organization", Dmitry Medvedev, the Deputy Chairman of Russia's Security Council, warned: "Gentlemen, everyone walks under God and missiles. It is quite possible to imagine the targeted use of a hypersonic Onyx missile by a Russian ship in the North Sea strikes in the Hague court building. Unfortunately, it cannot be shot down... So, judges of the court, watch the skies closely."
Russia’s top investigative body announced Monday that it had opened a “criminal” case against the prosecutor and judges of the International Criminal Court (ICC).
The move comes as part of a concerted effort from Moscow to intimidate the court in the Netherlands, which on Friday issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin over his part in “unlawful” forced deportations of Ukrainian children to Russia.
Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev threatened earlier Monday to target the court in The Hague with missile strikes.
I don't think it's reasonable to equivocate a former president making a verbal threat, which still sucks, with an actual state apparatus signing it into law
Both are violent threats. US just used to be more legalistic about this sort of thing. I mean Russia also sentenced the judges in absentia in Russian courts. I don't think you could say they're better.
Better in what way, morally? Morality isn't real and the level of geopolitics is where it's the least real. From a practical, threat assessment standpoint, one of these things is much more urgent and pressing than the other.
One of them is currently supplying and abetting a genocide, kidnapping heads of state, shooting people in the street during gestapo raids, disappearing activists to concentration camps, bombing countries on multiple continents, trying to topple the government of Iran and preparing for multiple invasions.
The other is at war with the puppet government of exactly one country, which was committing ethnic cleansing and who we put there as part of our own strategy of aggression.
Americans don’t like the USA taking these actions (well until the big fat orange blob actual does them, then his base instantaneously flips their opinion to being for it)
I'm unsure on whether you'll receive a notification for this message, but if you have a lot of time to kill and enjoy podcasts you might wanna check out Blowback season 1 which deals with Iraq and explains the broader context. So many American liberals (and definitely the establishment) wanted to invade Iraq and they did, but since it's now considered to have been a bad thing so many liberals retroactively pretend they were always against it.
Just because Trump also breaks international law, doesn't make it better when Putin does it (and not the first time either). Yes, Russia Man Bad! 👍🏻 Orange Man Also Bad!
Nobody mentioned Trump. I am so fucking sick of liberals acting like the US wasn't constantly attacking other countries before Trump.
Joe Biden supported and enabled the genocide in Gaza, and every president before him committed invasions and war crimes. The fact that you think it's just a Trump thing and not a US empire thing reveals your geopolitical understanding to be puddle-deep. Hell, Putin was our guy. We put him there.
Trump is the president right now though
That is not an excuse to forgo object permanence and pretend Trump is an anomaly in any way except for how blatant he is. He's not a deviation from US policy, he's a distillation of it.
Liberals were happy to close their eyes and support genocide when it was covered by the thinnest veil of decorum
I'm just saying they might've mentioned Trump only since he is the president right now
That's fair, but I also can't know if they think Trump is an aberration and I consider it important to broaden the scope of the discussion
Well lets see the why shall we.
Russia: Engaged in a military operation because of ever encroaching US imperialism via NATO and installing a Nazi puppet government against the wishes of the Ukrainian people as is the norm and attempting to liberate them
US/Orange man; oil and stopped those EvIl CoMmiEs
Oh shit, I forgot I'm posting to a Russian propaganda board 🙄 my bad, forget it happened. And please don't report me to GRU.
Cope
Why is attacking the outer reaches of Ukraine then, when NATO and US imperialism are the problem? Also how is the government nazi with two Jews in it's cabinet of ministers? You know, the central part of Nazism is the antisemitism. Pretty weak excuses for an invasion.
How can America be racist when they had a Black President?
Because those outer reaches are the regions that asked them for help when Ukraine spent 8 years slaughtering them for being too ethnically Russian
And Russia finally came to help them in 2021 and not amy sooner.
Yeah, they were hoping to reach a diplomatic solution but the Ukranian nazi government wouldn't stop breaking treaties. Your point?
Typical lib selective memory. Ukraine has been attempting drone swarms into Moscow targeting civilians for half a year at least, just recently struck at Putin's houses to attempt a decapitation strike.
Oreshnik is a good reminder that if they really wanna throw away conventions of war, they don't have a single way to intercept what would come back to them. Even then, the targets were completely legitimate and civilian casualties minimal (despite Ukraine regularly setting up bases in civilian centers, which is a flagrant war crime)
Regarding your edit: Obama was the president of the most racist country on earth ffs. There were plenty of Jewish SS members. Y'all have had it explained to you for ages and you turn around and say it again verbatim next time because you're not interested in learning, you're just cheering for your team and it makes me not at all surprised that y'all choose the guys in Nazi garb with Nazi insignias saying they're going to do Nazi stuff first chance they get.
Are you saying the 3 year war is in retaliation for drone strikes within the past year?
It must be hard going through life being this intentionally obtuse
Both are bad and should be villified internationally and face repurcussions for their actions.
Should the US pay reparations to Russia?
Once the natives and descendants of slaves are paid reparations, there would be nothing left.
This is why the US chooses to kidnap and murder them, instead.
So both should be villified for invading other countries, right?
Yup, and western European countries that participated should be vilified as well.
How dare you stand against USSR
USSR has been dead and buried for a while now. This was about the US and Russia
Let's send both Trump and Putin to the ICC in The Hague. How about that?
I agree, but only one of those 2 countries has proclaimed (in law if im not mistaken, but i may be wrong) that they would intervene militarily to prevent one of their own from being tried by the ICC, regardless of the actual crimes they've committed. And im talking about sending special forces to extract said alleged criminal against humanity, from another sovereign nation, abiding by its own laws.
Guess which of the 2 I'm talking about? Russia is by no means the good guy, but its not a binary issue, as most people on the internet seem to react when these 2 countries are mentioned in the same sentence. Russia being 'bad' doesn't automatically make the US 'good' and vice versa.
Sure, who's worse shifts back and forth over the years, but to my eyes, currently, the US is worse, and its been that way for a long time. Way before trump. Anyone who thinks this all started when trump took office, is a bit deluded.
But you're 100% right, send both of them to the ICC, in an ideal world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court_arrest_warrants_for_Russian_leaders#Criticism
https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-russia-icc-criminal-case-moscow-ukraine-war/
I don't think it's reasonable to equivocate a former president making a verbal threat, which still sucks, with an actual state apparatus signing it into law
Both are violent threats. US just used to be more legalistic about this sort of thing. I mean Russia also sentenced the judges in absentia in Russian courts. I don't think you could say they're better.
Better in what way, morally? Morality isn't real and the level of geopolitics is where it's the least real. From a practical, threat assessment standpoint, one of these things is much more urgent and pressing than the other.
I mean yeah one of them is right now bombing another European country so Russia is obviously more alarming but the American threat is pretty bad too
One of them is currently supplying and abetting a genocide, kidnapping heads of state, shooting people in the street during gestapo raids, disappearing activists to concentration camps, bombing countries on multiple continents, trying to topple the government of Iran and preparing for multiple invasions.
The other is at war with the puppet government of exactly one country, which was committing ethnic cleansing and who we put there as part of our own strategy of aggression.
I know who I consider the bigger threat to peace.
"Russia is more alarming because they're bombing white people, not just subhumans in the global South!"
Nobody mentioned Trump. I am so fucking sick of liberals acting like the US wasn’t constantly attacking other countries before Trump.
Fine, let's send every single US president.
I'd be on board.
Is there a sane reason why a man at an airport would be wearing all these hats?
They don't fit in his luggage (or would be smashed) so that's the easiest way to take them onboard. Maybe purchased as gifts to relatives.
US man bad too. Come on.
I wonder why no one likes tankies?
Communists can have our own spaces, just like y'all can have your own. Communists tend to not be particularly fond of Lemmy.world either.
Feel free to leave
Americans don’t like the USA taking these actions (well until the big fat orange blob actual does them, then his base instantaneously flips their opinion to being for it)
Yeah they do, they just claim afterwards that they didn't. One Day Everyone Will Have Been Against This.
I'm unsure on whether you'll receive a notification for this message, but if you have a lot of time to kill and enjoy podcasts you might wanna check out Blowback season 1 which deals with Iraq and explains the broader context. So many American liberals (and definitely the establishment) wanted to invade Iraq and they did, but since it's now considered to have been a bad thing so many liberals retroactively pretend they were always against it.
Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check it out