G-Assist is ‘real’: NVIDIA unveils NitroGen, open-source AI model that can play 1000+ games for you
Why would I want AI to play the game other than for testing?
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Comments107https://videocardz.com/newz/g-assist-is-real-nvidia-unveils-nitrogen-open-source-ai-model-that-can-play-1000-games-for-youOpen linkView original on lemmy.dbzer0.com
I want AI to do my chores not play my games.
Right? Like, figure out how to sort and fold laundry.
Work is hard, modern games are easy.
Shoot this dot, go to that dot, bring "x" to this dot...
Anything requiring critical thinking like a puzzle, the bot just brute forces trying every possible outcome until something works.
It works because games have a finite set of options and at least one progresses. The real world isn't that clean, and you don't get infinite chances to get 1 correct solution.
Sorry, AI must only be inserted into places it isn't actually wanted.
Honestly I'd be curious about what a couple Minecraft bots could do. If you gave them a roadmap to endgame gear, what kind of farms would they build?
If they're as good at the game as LLMs are at writing, the bots would probably try to build a Nether portal using black wool instead of obsidian, then set it on fire, then die burning on said fire.
Sort of already exists as Baritone. https://github.com/cabaletta/baritone I'm not sure what all it can and can't do but it's pretty sophisticated.
Edit: Note that, as far as I know, none of it is AI in the modern usage of the term.
Yes! I went kind of hard into technical Minecraft during COVID and used it a lot. It's more of an automation framework, it's a terrific piece of software but not "AI".
I've dicked around with a baritone+LLM setup but it's really hard to get the model to do anything worthwhile. The model doesn't really see the world around it, just whatever textual representation you manage to make of it. It's slow and frustrating and only gets the very basic tasks right.
I would imagine a vision+interaction model would be leaps and bounds better at any interesting application. Ultimately I'd love to see a civilization of bots building its own base with mega farms and shit...
Did you see the one where someone trained bots to do crystal pvp on 2b2t? It was fascinating and actually "AI" (not LLM AI but what we would've called AI pre LLM/gen AI lol). I don't remember much else. Basically the bots actually saw the screen, not at full resolution, but enough to really see and move and attack players in a very advanced way. (Crystal PVP involves putting down end crystals and detonating them, it's much more involved than just clicking with a sword or aiming arrows.)
I totally missed that ! Thanks for the reference I'll try to find it.
I used to hang with a crew that was really into crystal pvp, this brings back memories. Personally I find it pretty boring but the coding part on their custom clients was pretty fun.
Silver lining: maybe it could be used to make some games more accessible for people with disabilities
Great! Now the AI can play the video games for me while I do the dishes. I swear it was the other way around in the SciFi.
Shut up and get back down the mines or your robot manager-security-cop will have to terminate you. Meet your billionaire-enforced quota and you'll live to enjoy another day of mining.
Plot twist: turns out that at some point, the billionaire got replaced by robots who have learned to be megalomaniac assholes.
Merry Christmas from Chiron Beta Prime :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DyxaCYlfg
Game companies: spend millions fighting cheating and cheat software.
Nvidia: here comes AI game assist!
Next: game companies can subscribe to NVIDIA anti-AI-cheating AI. This is innovation under capitalism.
Cheaters have been using object detection AI to cheat for quite some time
Why the fuck is AI always being applied to only parts of society that are fun?
So you can spend more time working shit jobs for shit pay. Aren't you happy? 😊
AI took that too! Oops all joblessness! 🤩
I want LLMs to be used to create thousands of characters that have agency in like, Skyrim or something, and to watch the absolutely unhinged fucking chaos of what it creates.
I don't want it to play games for me.
I don't even want that, I'd rather a game have its characters and writing created with intent by a person who cares.
If you use ai as an additive technology rather a replacement to things then really cool, ethical oppurtinitites open up for its use.
Rather than training a voice actor for a small handful of npcs that say the same four lines ad infinitum,pay them the same amount to License their voice, train a model, and use that for the game. Pair this with an LLM and suddenly you have pcs capable of saying all kinds of hillarious shit.
Have the coders that always write box behaviour to write the behaviour of npcs. The give players the option to talk them into doing some weird LLM powered shit.
Like. You can use ai to add things to games. It doesn't have to replace people's
I think a part of why people hate it is that idiots are trying to use it to replace things people do.
Where it's best is when it does things people can't
I'm going to be honest those do not sound like good uses. I want games to be designed with intent, not on the spot by an LLM.
When you create a character with one of those models you are creating that character with intent and purpose. What it thinks, talks, etc etc. it’s not easy to do that. The writing is still there.
In fact you’d take quotes you want the npc to say so that it understands how it uses language. The difference is that you might get a sentence constructed slightly differently.
You're not. You're not doing that work. The LLM is.
That would be so freaking cool
I do too so I’m making a game that does that.
Not sure if I’ll get to fully flesh it out but if I’m doing it it’s definitely coming.
That’s cool. AI can do art and writing and video games for me. It can watch all my shows. All I have to do is work and maybe sleep. Sounds fun.
Leonard > Amy
I guess Elon won't be needing gamers' services to max out his characters anymore.
Fucking AI taking valuable jobs away again.
Y'all laugh but there are way too many people into idle games, not to mention people who prefer watching a stream (even without commentary) over playing a game itself.
I cannot comprehend why, though, just like I can't comprehend how cheating (particularly single player) can be fun.
Have you never played a game with unreasonable grind that saps all the fun out of it ? Often just to drive player hours and 'engagement'. Multiplayer cheats however can die in a fire.
I suppose. When I'm referring to cheats, it's more in regards to invulnerability, infinite resources, etc., which seem to sap the point of having a game in the first place. Like making the fun parts into a grind, rather than the other way around.
That said, I'll also say sometimes part of the challenge is the grind, so it depends. You have to pick your own poison, right?
Like, take Silksong for example. You lose out on the full experience if you mod out the annoying run from bench to boss, it's like a 40 second annoyance built in punishment. But I get why you'd do that-- it's technically there for a reason but I get it. Hell, even the difficulty adjustment mods I can understand.
But making the bosses die in one hit or making yourself invulnerable? Now you've lost me, that's like a core element of the game; you might as well just watch someone else play it because what's the point.
When I was a child I used to ask my dad to input the invulnerability cheat in Doom. I was way too bad at movement, aiming and basically just everything, that I could have had fun otherwise. Likewise for Anno 1602, there I needed the money cheat because otherwise I'd just go bankrupt. I didn't understand the income balance yet but I still had fun building economy chains.
I'm not sure I have a point here. Just remembered cheating as a child because I needed it. Probably haven't cheated in 18 years now.
My dad entered in codes for me when I was really little, but that's kind of another thing entirely. I don't think little kids have an achievement oriented sorta version of play, so anything goes with them. Once you're older, that dopamine rush just hits differently, though.
In education you could also consider it a form of scaffolding. Enabling someone to do something they normally can't do is a form of development, like giving handicaps in games and stuff can foster the skills to not need them eventually.
Good analogy. It also brought to mind the bumpers you can enable for kids in bowling.
I mean it used to be the norm for games to have cheat codes built into them. Maybe you get stuck on one part and need help, maybe you have fun spawning a bunch of weapons and going on a rampage (see GTA), or maybe you just want to see what happens if you spawn a giant enemy in a small room.
Some games I want to play just to experience the storyline, but without getting stressed by danger or frustrated by getting stuck.
Then just don’t play that game lmao
Cheats in single player games is a blast.
It gets old quick but it's fun for a while.
I don't watch others playing games, either, but someone who likes those streams told me he didn't see a difference between watching good gamers play games and good football players play football.
You never used cheat codes in GTA San Andreas and the like? It's a lot of fun
I actually thought about that after my comment and summoning a tank from nowhere was fun. At least for a little bit... but maybe mostly for the novelty of it all. Also I was like, 12.
The one cheat code I still remember from that game by heart lol: aiwprton
I mean it varies. It's fun to just goof off in games sometimes. That's why sandbox games like Minecraft typically have creative modes, sometimes you just wanna play in the sandbox and have a good time without the more typical game parts tying you down
Can someone tell me how an idle game is a game? There is no game being played in one of those.
I was laughing along until you said "watching a stream (even without commentary)". Yeah I've done that one. Sometimes I want to see what's next in the game without spending 100 hours to get there ><. Also watching lets me mentally unwind, playing takes a mental toll.
I think we're all kinda beat down by life, so I don't really judge people on it. I just am not one of them, haha. (But I don't even watch TV or movies much so I'm admittedly a weirdo).
I also don't watch TV or movies -- only Twitch streams. I've been this way even when not beaten down by capitalism and fascism though. Even when I'm taking a break from working on creative projects, it's still nice to be able to turn my brain off and get the experience of seeing the game. Maybe my unmedicated ADHD makes me that way.
Imagine thé thing you cook and guide a rimworld playing ia while making cookie then an horde attack you start yelling the cookie burn your base is lost.
How much legal trouble would I get for kicking a CEO in the testicles? it feels like it would be worth it if I ever met NVIDIA's bosses.
Depends, are you rich?
Or remarkably good-looking?
None if you don't get caught. They're not going to do a full investigation if you don't try to murder the guy. Also, look how badly the current FBI fumbled the investigation into Charlie Kirk's killer? into Brian Thompson's killer?
It's crazy how much Brian Thompson isn't even a name in my head. If someone murders me, I only hope they're not so charismatic that when people try to remember me they just picture a beige balloon named John Lastname.
The age of ai-generated streamers is coming...
People and corporations will automatize all the process and turn it into passive income, and a lot of people will somehow watch it, making the thing profitable.
I'm tired of all this...
A Minecraft and Roblox streamer tried that a year ago, primarily as a pitch to investors to make a service for other streamers to make AI-generated content. His name is Kwebbelkop. This guy managed to make the laziest brand of content I have ever even heard suggested as an idea: An AI avatar reading an AI reaction to an AI-generated image. And I thought reaction videos were bad...
I'm tired of all this...
AI will do all the fun and creative things for you so you can get back to work
Great, another fun thing the LLM craze want to take from me. FFS.
that and the polar ice caps
I wouldn't mind playing games co-op with AI.
Ive got incredible news for you
Few games actually have that and even fewer have ones that play well.
So many games have companions tho. Most of the time, I don't want them but they are forced upon me. Such as in Wo Long or Skyrim.
Yeah, I'm talking about games where they're designed for humans to play together.
Well, I have found that It Takes Two really only takes two controllers and beat it all by myself with these two hands. 😤
That sounds awful, but then again not as awful as dealing with my wife trying to aim
Actually if they can use that to make good ai opponents for 4x games, it'd be pretty sweet
Except you don't need a neural net to do this, nor would you really want one for it because it would be incredibly slow unless you use the GPU to run it which might be a bit busy running the actual game. It's like a "make game run worse" option.
In game AI can be pretty sophisticated even without the addition of neural nets which could be OK with determining strategy based on player action, but really isn't going to be good for the entire control.
This kind of thing is only useful as tech demo for playing platformers and the like with the same inputs a human player would, basically more like a bot.
Given that it has been the weak point in almost all 4x games in the past 30 years, I'd be happy if they give anything novel a try
I could see a way for it to work, but this tech certainly isn't it and you'd need to balance the size of the model for memory use and performance.
…why? What’s the point?
Soylent green I guess. No money, no fun, no job. You're free to die.
Beat Elon in PoE
I don't need AI to do that unless I am actually playing against the dude he pays to play for him.
The bar is low i see.
FYI: Stuff like this is for automated testing, not "playing games for you" 🤣
Also, I won't consider it realistic until it can type out, "lol git gud scrub" after ganking someone who just spawned.
Makes sense. Upscaling and video interpolation instead of optimisation. Image generation instead of artists. Now this instead of actual testing.
The 💩💩💩 gaming industry is going to somehow get even worse.
This seems like a very good use of the tech. Fuzzy testing is difficult to do, and it's all about scale
This is all on the assumption it’ll work and be useful. The track record so far is underwhelming.
Good games are orthogonal to AI usage. It's possible to have a great game that was written with AI using AI-generated assets. Just as much as it's possible to have a shitty one.
If AI makes creating games easier, we're likely to see 1000 shitty games for every good one. But at the same time we're also likely to see successful games made by people who had great ideas but never had the capital or skills to bring them to life before.
I can't predict the future of AI but it's easy to imagine a state where everyone has the power to make a game for basically no cost. Good or bad, that's where we're heading.
If making great games doesn't require a shitton of capital, the ones who are most likely to suffer are the rich AAA game studios. Basically, the capitalists. Because when capital isn't necessary to get something done anymore, capital becomes less useful.
Effort builds skill but it does not build quality. You could put in a ton of effort and still fail or just make something terrible. What breeds success is iteration (and luck). Because AI makes iteration faster and easier, it's likely we're going to see a lot of great things created using it.
The capitalists will control access to the AI and compute resources, which will be the means of production in this new world.
We have access to the models. They cant take it away from all of us. Regular people? Maybe.
I doubt that. New services that host the open models are cropping up all the time. They're like VPS hosting providers (in fact, existing VPS hosts will soon break out into that space too).
It's not like Big AI has some huge advantage over the open source models. In fact, for images they're a little bit behind!
The FOSS coding models are getting pretty fantastic and they get better all the time. It seems like once a month a new, free model comes out that eclipses the previous generation once a month.
What’s a bad game? Those Roblox mini games exist and are popular. Idle games exist…
Finally I will get through my Steam queue!
The ultimate conclusion to cheating in video games is literally just having the robot play them for you
Something is just wrong with their brains which allows them to derive pleasure from antisocial activity 🤷♀️
Bold to assume having an AI play the game for testing is actually useful. Given how buggy games release nowadays i genuinely wonder which companies still properly have play testers. An AI whose results you mostly ignore is pointless.
I suspect it's not a lack of playtesters that's the problem, but harsh deadlines and crunch. That type of environment leads to tech debt to get things working fast, which leads to hard-to-manage code, which leads to bugs...
ftfy
Oh yeah? Go beat Talos Principle then.
I see what you did there.
Zzzt!
Botting just got a whole lot easier - now old bitcoin farmers can go back to currency farming in games. At least in game currency prices will drop.
Mom, I want an aim bot!
But we have aim bots at home.
The aim bots at home.
Great,
And I’m guessing like all gen AI, it would be mediocre at best and never reach the top players.
Now all they need is a way to turn mediocre gameplay into money, surely that part would be easy
Also, I don’t think they could use it for testing as there could be plenty of false positive or negatives.
It’s already been a few years, before the LLM boom, but a neural networked figured out how to play Super Mario Bros by simply looking at the RAM and it mastered the game.
But that’s cheating no? The challenge is playing the game using user input with all the delays and extra steps that can happen along the way.
Also, optimizing a neural network for just one narrow use case is not what’s being discussed here.
ML is very, very good at narrow use cases, same with other tools of automation going back a century, they are talking about generic all purpose ML
Of course it‘s „cheating“, this was a fun research project that came to mind.
Racing games too, especially single player races.
If conditions are the same every run, it will eventually find the mathematically fastest way. I saw a video about a guy doing it, and after thousands of runs the bot noticed a glitch if the car wasn't on four wheels allowing it to move insanely fast. Like grinding a rail in Tony Hawk, the bot would immediately do it, and run the entire course on the glitch.
That's not human intelligence tho, that's the same as when a slime mold can design a transportation network as effectively as we can.
Apart from games, where this can also be used for more capabable and behaviourally more "interesting" NPCs (including computer opponents or teammates), the used techniques can be transferred to robotics. Quite a cool architecture.
I could see this being useful for those with disabilities like muscular dystrophy. Maybe let the AI handle repetitive, input-heavy parts and take over the gameplay at key moments so as to minimize muscle pain.
Ton of dead multiplayer games that don't have bots
This might be a legitimate use case... maybe. Depends on if it can learn games similar enough to humans. Which i doubt. Might be better to just code bot mods but idk, ai-players would be kinda cool. How long before we have to guess if a player is human, cheating, or a bot though?
I guess you answered it yourself, for testing.