Maybe? Absolutely liberals care more about their communities. Part of conservatism is that you don’t give a single shit about anyone but yourself. Maybe your kids. But that’s only if they’re straight and cis.
The right-wingers also aren't from the place they have these rallies at usually. They drive all over the country and get bussed around for these events to make the movement seem more popular. But when there are large progressive/left protests or events, they are mostly actually from that area so they care more about not making a mess.
Both things make sense together - people care more about not making a mess were they live than were they don't and left-wingers also think about others rather than just themselves - "do to others what you would like them to do to you" - which in this case means don't leave your trash behind to dirty up the place were others live, whilst rightwingers are all about what's best for themselves and in a place were they don't live simply dropping their trash on the ground and leaving it to dirty up somebody else's streets is less hassle for them personally than carrying their trash to the nearest trash bin.
conservatives think anything is a flex as long as they can CO-OPT it into thier realm, they dont have a single belief they hold on to, and quite fickle, today its bad bunny, tommorow, its something else.
Well most of project 2025 has been implemented so unless we do something soon we are trapped in a christofacist oligarchy for the foreseeable future. The cage is closing
I agree. And it goes the other way too. All the posturing by ICE and the AI-generated ragebait from the whitehouse, all just screams "what would I hate." They're making really bad moves, unable to understand how others think, feel, or make decisions. We could double-reverse-uno this situation and ask ourselves "what would they think we think?" It could change everything.
and a lot less afraid of engaging with people we’ve been taught to fear and hate.
I think we're all in more trouble with that than we may realize.
I encountered an instigator on Saturday. I found myself catapulted into a cyclone of rage all because of what he chose to wear: all pro-trump gear. Not because of what he was doing, which was next to nothing, nor what he was saying which was honestly not all that rage-inducing. I couldn't think, I couldn't engage creatively, I couldn't demonstrate effectively, my empathy went right out the window. I just stood there, fuming and stun-locked. And that was one guy. It's not like me, and I didn't used to be like this.
Death Metal fans are percieved as incredibly violent, but actually are usually super nice.......unless you give them a reason to get super violent. Then they're super violent.
But after they get done lynching you, they'll stop for coffee and tea and discuss politics and comunity news.
When I can afford a meal at a restaurant that has servers? Generally 20% AND I bus my own table regardless.
I went to a new, delightfully gay hairdresser recently who spent two hours on my own personal episode of Queer Eye for the Less Queer Guy. You bet your little bippy I tipped that man 25% and scheduled a cleanup appointment.
They're only perceived as incredibly violent by religious old people... Death metal (and most other heavy music) fans are generally seen as nice people, because it's true and has ever only been so. Same goes for horror movie nuts etc.
I actually find it odd to see a comment like yours here, it's such a well known thing that religious, conservative and mostly old people get bent out of shape and make a huge fuss about any new and/or, from their view, extreme thing. It's been the same for centuries.
Before death metal they said the same about metal, before that it was rock, hip hop, pop music, jazz etc.
Same with how every new generation is seen as lazy, disrespectful, dumb etc. which we have texts about from thousands of years ago.
As said, I'm very surprised to see a comment like yours here. And it seems like you think you have a liberal (in the word definition meaning, not the current political one) and/or at least open minded view, but it's actually not that at all. My 80yo grandmother has a more truthful and accepting view than what you seem to have.
I do think you were partially very clumsy with your words though, at least I hope so, but even with that in mind it's still surprising to see a view like this from someone in any place like here.
It is certainly not "a good point".
Out of literally anything that you can choose this insult (not even a point) from a pure sociopath that shows what kind of hateful monster it is definitely is not a good choice.
They think they are better than other people. They don't see others as worthy of their consideration. “Am I the only one who is sick and tired of being told to pick up my trash, when we have plenty of janitors who are paid to do it for us?” - advisor to the President Stephen Miller
While in general the comparison is true, in the specific case of the Kirk circlejerk, people specifically were told to leave their shit outside the venue and TP paid for the cleanup.
I wish. My stepmom on Facebook made a post on him yesterday. They really want to hang onto this one, because it's easy to frame it in their persecution complex
Anyone caught throwing trash on the ground should have their voting rights suspended till after the nearest election. If somebody is so lazy and has so little regard for their local community - does anyone seriously believe they care about the whole country?
While i agree in spirit, I feel like that would quickly devolve into cops detaining and beating minorities, just to force them to drop whatever's in their hand, so they can charge them with littering and disenfranchise them.
Sounds a little too far fetched to me. Also like a USA problem. Police in Europe, while definitely not perfect, is a lot more friendly and almost never exhibits the same behaviors as American police.
I don't mean to imply anything or to accuse anyone, but to me this sounds exactly like the kind of argument someone who throws trash around would make.
I wish I'd seen this before replying to the other comment. Now it'll be two parallel discussions.
Can't really disagree with anything here. You're perfectly right to question the ethics of such a policy. It's just an idea that popped up. I'm not saying I'd implement it immediately after becoming the prime minister. Simply something to think about, like we're doing right now.
To solve this debate, I think there are two main questions we need to answer first.
Is everyone unconditinally entitled to voting rights, regardless of their situation?
What is the objective of a democracy?
Personally, I'd say that:
Not necessarily. If you want to have a say in how your community operates, you should not be actively harming that community. If you can't be bothered to pick up your trash and throw it into a trash can down the street - it seems clear to me that you don't care and/or value the community, and so cannot be trusted to influence it with the best of intentions. Of course, excusing special situations.
This one is more complicated. At the roots, I think we can all agree that the overarching goal is to have a fair, well functioning system that promotes positive change. Do people leaving trash around facilitate that objective? Not in the slightest. Would temporarily restricting their voting rights lead to improvements? Would it be fair and just? Hard to say. Not sure I have an answer here.
Disagree, suspending voting rights in general leads to feedback. Like how felons can't vote, so we get more laws that turn their community into felons.
Littering should be punished with community service but your right to vote is not a privilege.
As I mentioned in another comment - this seems like an issue specific to the USA. This sort of trend is extremely rare in Europe. Plus, politicians generally encourage everyone to vote here, so it's not like this benefits them, unless they can effectively target a certain demographic - which, again, never happens.
I wrote that it's "extremely rare". The subsequent "never happens" was not meant literally, which I expected to be obvious to anyone reading the entire comment.
Of course, this happens everywhere around the world. I'm not arguing whether or not it happens here, but to what degree. And it is self evident that the degree to which minorities are discriminated in Europe is magnitudes lower than in the USA. Europeans may have invented racism, but Americans sure have since perfected the craft.
Perhaps you're right about my proposal being a potential source of serious issues. I can't say it's not at all possible. However, my main point here is not to apply American standards to the European Union. It's like saying that restrictions on ICE vehicles in Canada won't work, because the same policy wouldn't work in Eritrea.
Tens of thousands of people and not a single scrap of litter accidentally strewn from the various people with their musical fanfare. I'm not even sure Japan is that good.
Why don't we just focus on the hard policies which are destroying people's livelihoods with provable statistics, instead of scrounging for wishful narratives focused around littering of all things
Tens of thousands of people who had a clear motivation to come across as upstanding citizens, and who generally had a political leaning towards environmentalism. I can believe they didn't leave trash behind.
See, that's the kind of thing that can happen when you value community and work together. You can have significant and nice shared resources. It's not a tragedy of the commons race to the bottom you get with rugged individualists and/or selfish children who see trash on the ground and say "that's bad, the person who did that needs to clean it up and be punished" and then it sits there and rots.
And yeah there are WAY more important things to worry about than how various groups do or do not litter. But it is an illustrative example of the different priorities and values of the groups. It seems like a topic for discussion as we live in a world where some people are still somehow just finding out that this Trump character might not a be all above board.
But for something so minor why are you so insistent upon pushing it away and disregarding it? That's two different justifications now for doing so (these are cherry picked, ok maybe not but it doesn't matter).
Because blindly believing a meme caption just reinforces the bubble. It's not great.
I would absolutely love for this to be true, but it weirds me out that the only image attribution is on one of the Charlie Kirk images. Literally any semblance of a source would be nice to reassure that this isn't an old shot from a movie shoot with the No Kings logo overlaid.
The community on my street is amazing, we check in on each other, we volunteer at the local park, and often host each other for big events. We pick up trash routinely, but due to the nature of wind and trash bags never being fully sealed, there is always something blowing around in a corner to pick up.
That photo is pristine. If that reflects an ideal for you, then power to us both. But if that reflects an actual reality to you, then I need to stop responding to comments in this sub.
While it is a just comparison of 2 single data points, that doesnt necessarily mean they aren't representative of the whole picture. (Not saying they are representative, either)
Generally, cherry picking for something like this would be combing through data sets and finding outliers to point to that aren't representative of the data as a whole.
It appears they just took random photos of each sides most recent event. Now, maybe they did cherry pick photos and the Republicans, say, only trashed that one area, or the no kings' photo is, say, the one area they didnt trash/ a photo of after the city cleaned up after them. (personally, I would have preferred a photo with protesters in it, not an after the fact shot)
But without evidence to the contrary, IMO, this can't be called cherry picking.
Maybe, but political literacy means recognizing that Trump and American liberals share most of their ideals, e.g. freedom as economic 'freedom', or sanctity of private property. In practice, both rather fight the poor than poverty and regarding racist police their solutions only differ in the amount of training they see fit for cops.
But maybe political maturity is understanding that most people (not just in the US) are politically illiterate.
Good effort post. How about starting to call leftist action leftist? If you tell people they are leftists if they oppose the current administrations course the term becomes less scary.
Treat intentions similar - caring for less fortunate people? Leftist. Worrying about working people's rights? Leftist. Praising acts of solidarity? Leftist. Once people realize their intentions are not liberal but actually leftist, they might actually break away from blue MAGA and start becoming a real opposition to the current fascist government.
Maybe? Absolutely liberals care more about their communities. Part of conservatism is that you don’t give a single shit about anyone but yourself. Maybe your kids. But that’s only if they’re straight and cis.
The right-wingers also aren't from the place they have these rallies at usually. They drive all over the country and get bussed around for these events to make the movement seem more popular. But when there are large progressive/left protests or events, they are mostly actually from that area so they care more about not making a mess.
Both things make sense together - people care more about not making a mess were they live than were they don't and left-wingers also think about others rather than just themselves - "do to others what you would like them to do to you" - which in this case means don't leave your trash behind to dirty up the place were others live, whilst rightwingers are all about what's best for themselves and in a place were they don't live simply dropping their trash on the ground and leaving it to dirty up somebody else's streets is less hassle for them personally than carrying their trash to the nearest trash bin.
country folk vs city folk too
Conservatives think destroying the community is a flex.
conservatives think anything is a flex as long as they can CO-OPT it into thier realm, they dont have a single belief they hold on to, and quite fickle, today its bad bunny, tommorow, its something else.
I guess only when they do it. BLM community destruction is still something brought up often.
MAGA is white trash. …And pick me trash. To be fair. I wish we could just split the country at this point. Irreconcilable differences.
Well most of project 2025 has been implemented so unless we do something soon we are trapped in a christofacist oligarchy for the foreseeable future. The cage is closing
I agree. And it goes the other way too. All the posturing by ICE and the AI-generated ragebait from the whitehouse, all just screams "what would I hate." They're making really bad moves, unable to understand how others think, feel, or make decisions. We could double-reverse-uno this situation and ask ourselves "what would they think we think?" It could change everything.
I think we're all in more trouble with that than we may realize.
I encountered an instigator on Saturday. I found myself catapulted into a cyclone of rage all because of what he chose to wear: all pro-trump gear. Not because of what he was doing, which was next to nothing, nor what he was saying which was honestly not all that rage-inducing. I couldn't think, I couldn't engage creatively, I couldn't demonstrate effectively, my empathy went right out the window. I just stood there, fuming and stun-locked. And that was one guy. It's not like me, and I didn't used to be like this.
I agree with most of what you’re saying as sad as it is. The problem is to build a counter propaganda platform takes billions upon billions
I'm sorry but that is objectively untrue.
https://www.project2025.observer/en
48% of project 2025 has been done, which hardly qualifies as "most"
Speak to me at 51%
OK, it's at 51% now. 👍
There are still more than 3 years left. Don't let your guard down until tyranny falls.
48% since the end of January and you’re not concerned? It’s moving at lightning speed
It was a joke,.I was just being pedantic
Got the message
Here here good point
In my town you couldn’t even tell there had been a protest there minutes after.
My major city is still at its typical levels of squalor.
Allegedly true of country music fans too. That Venn diagram isn’t quite a circle, but it’s close.
Death Metal fans are percieved as incredibly violent, but actually are usually super nice.......unless you give them a reason to get super violent. Then they're super violent.
But after they get done lynching you, they'll stop for coffee and tea and discuss politics and comunity news.
But do you tip generously?
The person describing death metal fans never said they were a death metal fans.
When I can afford a meal at a restaurant that has servers? Generally 20% AND I bus my own table regardless.
I went to a new, delightfully gay hairdresser recently who spent two hours on my own personal episode of Queer Eye for the Less Queer Guy. You bet your little bippy I tipped that man 25% and scheduled a cleanup appointment.
"They're nice when they're not mean." is a pretty bad take.
Personally, the only thing that causes me to go from "nice" to "mean" is intolerance or abuse.
Its not "nice when they aren't mean." It's "nice until they/their community are legitimately threatened."
They're only perceived as incredibly violent by religious old people... Death metal (and most other heavy music) fans are generally seen as nice people, because it's true and has ever only been so. Same goes for horror movie nuts etc.
I actually find it odd to see a comment like yours here, it's such a well known thing that religious, conservative and mostly old people get bent out of shape and make a huge fuss about any new and/or, from their view, extreme thing. It's been the same for centuries. Before death metal they said the same about metal, before that it was rock, hip hop, pop music, jazz etc. Same with how every new generation is seen as lazy, disrespectful, dumb etc. which we have texts about from thousands of years ago.
As said, I'm very surprised to see a comment like yours here. And it seems like you think you have a liberal (in the word definition meaning, not the current political one) and/or at least open minded view, but it's actually not that at all. My 80yo grandmother has a more truthful and accepting view than what you seem to have. I do think you were partially very clumsy with your words though, at least I hope so, but even with that in mind it's still surprising to see a view like this from someone in any place like here.
The march didn't go to central ave but yes there were clean up crews
Yeah fake pics.
Fuck Trump though.
I believe Hillary said it best. Deplorables.
Sure bring up that ghoul to make a point.
That whole shitstain of a country needs to go up in flames.
Glad you got Trump.
This comment brings nothing of value
LOL
bad people can make good points. most things aren’t black and white. nuance exists
It is certainly not "a good point".
Out of literally anything that you can choose this insult (not even a point) from a pure sociopath that shows what kind of hateful monster it is definitely is not a good choice.
They think they are better than other people. They don't see others as worthy of their consideration. “Am I the only one who is sick and tired of being told to pick up my trash, when we have plenty of janitors who are paid to do it for us?” - advisor to the President Stephen Miller
"Can't someone else do it?" - Homer Simpson
Ah, you're describing Moral licensing, and that's entirely plausible.
In this case it's "Littering is bad, but there's no trash cans here and I'm a generally good person so, just this once."
Except I suspect that "once" is really "every so often."
I always thought it was "it's just one can/bag/bottle" when its clean, "it's full of trash, one more won't make a difference"
I dont agree with leaving the trash there, but I understand it. It would have been confusing with all the trash already gathering there.
You can tell who lives there.
I literally watched a cop throw a blast ball in 2020 and then subsequently use their own actions to declare a riot
feels relevant : https://xcancel.com/funder/status/893678995404988417
I'm in the middle of watching the Some More News episode about Stephen Miller, and it's the first thing I thought of seeing the post
That was quite an episode. Something is very wrong with that man.
While in general the comparison is true, in the specific case of the Kirk circlejerk, people specifically were told to leave their shit outside the venue and TP paid for the cleanup.
Even if being told, who drops their trash on the streets?
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini
speaks volumes
"Maybe liberals care more about their community"
Im sorry, im so fuvking confused.
It's just meme tier bullshit. Conservatives played this game for decades with every liberal protest imaginable.
Random out of context imagines with captions about the identity group being insincere because trash
Ah, I thank you for clarity
How do you know that all on no kings protestors are liberals?
I would like to think it was only ~50%
Animals. That trash is how their brains must be.
Sometimes I fire up the ole' Charlie Kirk assassination video just to see it happen again.
That's probably not mentally healthy buddy. How about we shift over to destroying all his life's work instead.
I wish. My stepmom on Facebook made a post on him yesterday. They really want to hang onto this one, because it's easy to frame it in their persecution complex
Anyone caught throwing trash on the ground should have their voting rights suspended till after the nearest election. If somebody is so lazy and has so little regard for their local community - does anyone seriously believe they care about the whole country?
While i agree in spirit, I feel like that would quickly devolve into cops detaining and beating minorities, just to force them to drop whatever's in their hand, so they can charge them with littering and disenfranchise them.
Sounds a little too far fetched to me. Also like a USA problem. Police in Europe, while definitely not perfect, is a lot more friendly and almost never exhibits the same behaviors as American police.
I don't mean to imply anything or to accuse anyone, but to me this sounds exactly like the kind of argument someone who throws trash around would make.
(Summoned from other comment)
I don't mean to imply anything, but what sort of person wants to take away people's right to vote? :-P
I wish I'd seen this before replying to the other comment. Now it'll be two parallel discussions.
Can't really disagree with anything here. You're perfectly right to question the ethics of such a policy. It's just an idea that popped up. I'm not saying I'd implement it immediately after becoming the prime minister. Simply something to think about, like we're doing right now.
To solve this debate, I think there are two main questions we need to answer first.
Personally, I'd say that:
Disagree, suspending voting rights in general leads to feedback. Like how felons can't vote, so we get more laws that turn their community into felons.
Littering should be punished with community service but your right to vote is not a privilege.
As I mentioned in another comment - this seems like an issue specific to the USA. This sort of trend is extremely rare in Europe. Plus, politicians generally encourage everyone to vote here, so it's not like this benefits them, unless they can effectively target a certain demographic - which, again, never happens.
Would you please provide a source to the claim that no demographic in your country is systematically disenfranchised? Many Americans claim this too.
I would be concerned that if you start doing the same things Americans do, you will get the same results.
I wrote that it's "extremely rare". The subsequent "never happens" was not meant literally, which I expected to be obvious to anyone reading the entire comment.
Of course, this happens everywhere around the world. I'm not arguing whether or not it happens here, but to what degree. And it is self evident that the degree to which minorities are discriminated in Europe is magnitudes lower than in the USA. Europeans may have invented racism, but Americans sure have since perfected the craft.
Perhaps you're right about my proposal being a potential source of serious issues. I can't say it's not at all possible. However, my main point here is not to apply American standards to the European Union. It's like saying that restrictions on ICE vehicles in Canada won't work, because the same policy wouldn't work in Eritrea.
Whilst I believe the message on the whole, this is just clear... cherry picking, no?
No.
Tens of thousands of people and not a single scrap of litter accidentally strewn from the various people with their musical fanfare. I'm not even sure Japan is that good.
Why don't we just focus on the hard policies which are destroying people's livelihoods with provable statistics, instead of scrounging for wishful narratives focused around littering of all things
Tens of thousands of people who had a clear motivation to come across as upstanding citizens, and who generally had a political leaning towards environmentalism. I can believe they didn't leave trash behind.
See, that's the kind of thing that can happen when you value community and work together. You can have significant and nice shared resources. It's not a tragedy of the commons race to the bottom you get with rugged individualists and/or selfish children who see trash on the ground and say "that's bad, the person who did that needs to clean it up and be punished" and then it sits there and rots.
And yeah there are WAY more important things to worry about than how various groups do or do not litter. But it is an illustrative example of the different priorities and values of the groups. It seems like a topic for discussion as we live in a world where some people are still somehow just finding out that this Trump character might not a be all above board.
But for something so minor why are you so insistent upon pushing it away and disregarding it? That's two different justifications now for doing so (these are cherry picked, ok maybe not but it doesn't matter).
Because blindly believing a meme caption just reinforces the bubble. It's not great.
I would absolutely love for this to be true, but it weirds me out that the only image attribution is on one of the Charlie Kirk images. Literally any semblance of a source would be nice to reassure that this isn't an old shot from a movie shoot with the No Kings logo overlaid.
The community on my street is amazing, we check in on each other, we volunteer at the local park, and often host each other for big events. We pick up trash routinely, but due to the nature of wind and trash bags never being fully sealed, there is always something blowing around in a corner to pick up.
That photo is pristine. If that reflects an ideal for you, then power to us both. But if that reflects an actual reality to you, then I need to stop responding to comments in this sub.
Because hard policy doesn't win elections, it doesn't own them, and of the last ten years have taught us anything; that is the new meta
Sure we could, but that wasn't you question.
How about I'll give you a headstart.
While it is a just comparison of 2 single data points, that doesnt necessarily mean they aren't representative of the whole picture. (Not saying they are representative, either)
Generally, cherry picking for something like this would be combing through data sets and finding outliers to point to that aren't representative of the data as a whole.
It appears they just took random photos of each sides most recent event. Now, maybe they did cherry pick photos and the Republicans, say, only trashed that one area, or the no kings' photo is, say, the one area they didnt trash/ a photo of after the city cleaned up after them. (personally, I would have preferred a photo with protesters in it, not an after the fact shot)
But without evidence to the contrary, IMO, this can't be called cherry picking.
Trump is ultra liberal which is why he's bailing out is ultra liberal buddy Milei. Stop calling leftists liberal
Maybe, but political literacy means recognizing that Trump and American liberals share most of their ideals, e.g. freedom as economic 'freedom', or sanctity of private property. In practice, both rather fight the poor than poverty and regarding racist police their solutions only differ in the amount of training they see fit for cops.
But maybe political maturity is understanding that most people (not just in the US) are politically illiterate.
Good effort post. How about starting to call leftist action leftist? If you tell people they are leftists if they oppose the current administrations course the term becomes less scary.
Treat intentions similar - caring for less fortunate people? Leftist. Worrying about working people's rights? Leftist. Praising acts of solidarity? Leftist. Once people realize their intentions are not liberal but actually leftist, they might actually break away from blue MAGA and start becoming a real opposition to the current fascist government.
Go outside
Man you're smoking some good shit brother!