Please stop following in Apple's footsteps
https://gizmodo.com/google-s-pixel-8-sim-slot-esim-only-iphone-1850759671
What happened to daring to be different? What happened to having options? What happened to creativity?
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After years of eSim, wanting eSim, asking for nothing but eSim, I'm done with eSim. Having an argument with a T-Mobile rep in store on whether or not my Pixel 7 has an eSim made me no longer want eSim. I want my phone and its service to be as self service as possible, and managing my own sim seems to be my best option.
I mean, technically an eSim at its simplest is just a QR code provided to you by your provider, just like they provide you a SIM card. None of their fucking business whether your device supports it.
The Pixel does support eSim and QR code setup.
T-Mobile will only support QR code setup for Samsungs and iPhones, though. You have to call in if you have a Pixel.
The QR codes aren't tied to any brand. Next time just tell them it's a Samsung phone.
They are for T-Mobile. I tried using it on my Pixel; it didn't work.
Okay, that sounds like a Tmobile problem, not an eSIM problem.
And what makes it more frustrating with T-Mobile is they don't allow their customers to go online and swap a phone themselves. You HAVE to go in or call. My brother got a Pixel 7, and we couldn't swap his 5 out for the 7 online.
I looked everywhere on that shitty website, the closest thing they had was an option "upgrade my phone" that just took you to their online store. Fuck TMobile, I hate them so much.
Why do Android manufacturers keep turning their phones into iPhones? If I wanted an iPhone, I'd buy one.
Prolly cos they sell like hotcakes.
True, but they shouldn't be the only option. A big part of why they sell the way they do is brand recognition.
At this point I dunno anymore why they sell the way they do. Sure, hardware is really great. But the OS is lagging behind Android, CoreAudio aside. Apps are fine if you work around iOS's limitations. Still people really like the ecosystem or are they poor brand followers? Dunno.
Vendor lock-in is a big one. Losing access to your purchased games/apps and having a harder time bringing over your music and video libraries could turn people off, even if F2P games and streaming have made these less relevant. There's also the matter of switching cloud storage providers
Product design and BOM. Less parts. Easier to integrate. Easier IP ratings.
Are you forgetting that the Galaxy S5 had a removable back and still had an IP rating?
Watches can be waterproof to hundreds of meters deep and they have removable backs. It's not about the waterproofing, it's about not letting you change the battery so you have to buy a whole new phone when the battery stays dying. It's forced obsolescence.
Yet they still did it. So regardless if it's easier or not, they can still do it that way.
Are you saying it's not easier to just not have a hole than it is to seal a hole?
I'm not thrilled about it either, but it's obvious why they prefer it.
They need microphones and speakers. There's gonna be holes regardless.
Yeah. But you remove the sim card assembly (BOM), connector/solder pads (system design and internal space) and remove potential ingress points. It's just easier and cheaper from engineering through to production.
Dude, they have under water cameras , you can swim with fucking whales with a huge ass cameras, I'm not going swimming with my phone. Fick all these ratings, it's not like they would make it cheaper for you. Give me back changeable batteries, I'm not fucking fish.
They're chasing IP ratings. I like not losing a phone when I make a dumb, but prefer lightly sealed or unsealed with a replaceable battery. My LG V20 was the bees knees.
Idk, apple replaced their sim card slot with..... Plastic. A plastic insert. "Internal Space"
They're making SIM and non-SIM versions so that let's them use the same tooling for both versions. It's still a BOM reduction, but yeah, the other points would be a much smaller impact.
I don't think it would make that big of a difference.
I'm not entirely sure how much of a difference it would make in reality, but they're probably doing it for a reason. Though, with google devices, they may just be trying to nudge other manufacturers in a direction for their own reasons. Google phones help them set and maintain certain standards without trying to force other manufacturers to do what they want.
Is there a motive you see for Google to do this that isn't per-unit cost savings?
Keyword is easier
Yep. More of the restrictions of Apple but with less of the QA.
To setup an esim you need google framework and play installed (grapheneos is out, except you install Google)
This is the idea behind... More control
I don't think this is true?
I use calyx which has only microg and I've successfully used esims. No play store installed.
It's somewhere on the GrapheneOS website, Says to install you need google play, you can delete it afterwords. That said calyx has microg
Nah, I use GrapheneOS. Unfortunately you need to install the play store/services initially to services and "enabled privileged esim access" in the network access to install esim. After that though, you can purge all the Google crap and easily uninstall it all. Esim will remain in your phone, even if you were to factory reset and reflash to another OS. You just have install esim only once and it's actually stored on the hardware level.
Nonstarter for me then 👎 frustrating too, why
these companies insist onuse Google's infra instead of creating or adopting an actual celluar standard?Edit: sentence
Only to initially install it. After you install the esim, you can purge the Google stuff and it'll remain working perfectly. Esim is actually on your phone at the hardware level.
Do people not remember how fucking annoying this shit was before physical SIM cards? Who in the ever loving fuck is asking for this??
I remember vzw being on 3g and not having Sims. It made changing phones a bit of a hassle. I hated having to either go into a store or call in. Hopefully there's better ways in the future if this does happen.
Especially the original Droids
No one is asking for it. That won't stop Google from continuing the enshitification of everything they can.
It was annoying before because there was no sim. You had to register your device with the carrier for it to work. So it always meant a call to your provider to do anything and you couldn't use the device on more then one network.
E-sim is different. You can have multiple esims on one phone and even move them to other phones.
TIL apple doesn't have Sim slot.
Only in USA.
How do you place calls ? there still has to be something that identifies your device to the service provider, no ?
This is a new thing for them as well. Electronic sims have been around and ultimately eliminate used space and make the phones more sealed against water. The iPhone 14 I believe was the first one launched without a sim card slot.
E-sim cards are supported by Apple, Samsung, Google (pixel), Huawei, Oppo, Motorola, Sony, and likely many others. The idea of getting rid of the physical port is what these users are upset about.
Correct - all iPhones in the US only utilize eSIM which is basically a digital sim card that your device can download from the carrier, usually prompted with either a QR Code or the carrier's app can initialize the download after you sign in to their app.
It was previously used for small devices like smart watches, and then I guess Apple decided "this is good enough" and moved iPhones over to use it.
Cheers, ok
Apple has never been about having options. They have always believed that the customer doesn't know what they want. They enforce whatever they think is best, and provide no ways to change it.
Yep and sadly it's worked out pretty well for them.
A lot of people don't want options, they want solutions. I'm not one of them, but I can't blame them. They just don't care about the same things I do.
9/10 times I'm one of them. I stopped wanting unnecessary complexity in my tech towards the end of my teenage years. I'm much happier now with solutions that just work 100% of the time with no extra effort. The average person doesn't want or need to know how their tech works. It just needs to work
Capitalism it desgned for this you see.
Apple is for iToddlers. That's how they view their customers: as mentally deficient children who must be hand held at all times, lest they run into traffic.
What is being forced here? SIM cards store absolutely no information these days except your phone number?
eSIM has been supported on Pixel and iPhone for years and security wise it is a win: https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/118/ give that a listen.
Additionally, there is support to swap eSIM to other devices Apple has implemented a method and Google is working to do so. Telecom compnaies in the US are already capable of doing so as well: https://www.androidpolice.com/android-14-dual-sim/
What choice did this actually take from you? You either want a phone number or you don't? You either want that number on a device or you don't? The choice still exist here. This post has solidified to me that Lemmy users literally know absolutely nothing about security and let bias interfere with educating themselves on this kind of thing.
Pretty sure its a nothing burger.
Considering majority of the planet doesn't have access to esim. Google just cut off a huge chunk of its markets. I've been waiting on esims for years. They are slowly creeping out but they don't work on all networks and don't work on pay as you go plans.
Think you'd need esim to be much more established before you tried anything like this.
BT headphones had become pretty normal by the time they started removing the jack. You can also get an adapter to still use them. No slot for sim would be incredibly bold and lose them a tonne of money.
Nae chance in hell.
Info is from a leak. C'mon
Google shouldn't remove physical SIM cards until the networks can figure them out. I don't understand why it's so hard for them to do so, though.
Setting my Pixel up with an eSim on T-Mobile was a huge pain in the ass even though it should have been stupid easy. T-Mobile has a QR code you can scan to automate the setup, but, by their choice, it only works on Samsungs and iPhones.
First step was that I had to call up their tech support and confirm my identity. No issues with the identity confirmation, that's the bare minimum they should require. But then I had to manually relay my IMEI, avoiding making any mistakes.
When they finished, the call disconnected and my service no longer worked. Why? Because they need to deactivate your current IMEI to get it to work. And eSim won't work with T-Mobile until you take out your old SIM and restart your phone.
Before losing service, they told me this part would be tricky. If they had made a single mistake, I would have lost service. The online reps couldn't fix this, only the phone reps could, but again, I would have no service so I couldn't call the phone reps. If it didn't work, I would need to go in store to get it fixed and hope they would call in for me.
I don't understand why the process is any harder than just logging into your carrier on your phone.
In the Netherlands I went from not being a customer to making a phone call at the carrier in 10 minutes, while being in a third country. It really isn't hard. And I have a Fairphone, so not even a mainstream brand.
Yeah I used an esim on spark. It took 2 seconds. I bought it used code and had a new sim in like 5 mins.
No idea what the hell you went through. Obviously different systems
Just one correction, I've found plenty of companies offering pay as you go eSims in Switzerland, so I'd imagine it can exist elsewhere too. Digital Republic is an example that I use. Not gonna lie, it's nice to have a fully functioning phone plan right as you land on the tarmac.
Oh excellent I stand corrected. All the sim plans I've seen in the UK France and North America all seemed to offer monthly plans but not pay as you go.
I know there are lots of online only holiday sims. They are fantastic. Was going to use them in Canada but didn't get a chance.
Hopefully more will push into competition
You can get a vodafone PAYG esim, they just don't tell you about it. Get the PAYG SIM, register for an online account, wait a day or two for their ancient backend systems to all update, change to an esim from the account page.
Used it on my pixel 7 at Glastonbury this year
Noice. So there are likely more esims available they just are hidden
I think you can get a Lycamobile one too, but that's all I could find when I was looking a couple of months ago
And there are also those with dual SIMs for work or other purposes. With eSim one can have a personal account and use the physical SIM for work without the need for dual SIM slots. Removing the physical SIM means this is no longer possible.
How is that not possible with dual esims?
Idk, I think they're totally willing to manufacture a separate US model and an international model. And as time goes on, they'll phase out the international model. Just much more slowly.
Could be. But not until esims are ubicuos. Or else what's the point.
Google Pixel leaks are very notorious. Assuming this is true, it still doesn't make the "rumor" a good thing.
But it's a leak. Plenty get it wrong. I wouldn't be throwing in the towel because a leak said esims or nothing. It's from a render from "leaked" details. Some really big leaps there
Fun to speculate though.
We already have US versions and international versions of phones. The international version will probably still have regular sim.
Maybe I'm out of the loop but are eSIMs insecure or something? What's the problem? I started using eSIMs while traveling overseas and it been a game changer. So easy... No more swapping. No more trying to find a Sim provider at the airport etc.
AFAIK esim is not available everywhere and it's also less private since you need to register an account to activate rather than pay cash and pop in the card.
Yes eSIM adoption is low, but half the world requires you to register either way. The main concern is the friction (sometimes inability) with swapping eSIM's between phones. They are great and convenient but they should never be the only option.
In the eu you have to register your regular sim card with your full personal information. So for us nothing would change.
South Africa too. We call it RICA
Iirc the US also started requiring it, too.
What I like about physical Sims is I can easily swap it between different devices without need to login into a website or app to transfer it over.
Is esim that convient when it comes to swapping the same sim between different devices?
Stringer Bell over here with your SIM card shenanigans.
i’d say it’s a toss up really: personally i’d prefer logging into an account rather than having to find/carry something to pop open the sim tray, but i can see why some people would prefer that option
If you're someone who needs to swap SIM cards just keep the tool between the phone's backside and its case. If you don't have a case on your phone then... The fuck you doing playing with fire like that bruh?
No need to waste money on a phone case if you smash your phone or throw it in a river every time you make a call. You don't want the feds to catch up with you, right?
Seeing some of the crowd around here I wouldn't be surprised if and of them only use burner phones...
I keep it on my keys. You need those to get into your house/apartment/vehicle anyways.
that’s very fair!
i don’t actually have keys - everything is phone or watch, but i’m definitely an outlier!
Understandable.
I'd say it's pretty handy if you don't have an ejector pin on you. Don't have to take the phone out of the case either
What are those privacy problems?
I guess there's the fact that you cannot anonymously purchase an eSIM.
Anything else?
That's a big one. It introduces a privacy concern that traditional SIMs dont have, and if all phones use eSIM, there will be no alternative.
As with many things tech, it's a slippery slope, and short-term convenience leads to long-term detriment. But if you don't care about privacy, then yes, enjoy the convenience of an eSIM.
doesn't most the world require registering for a regular sim anyway?
Yeah, I don’t understand where people are getting a SIM card nowadays without an ID or verification.
is there much privacy in attaching your main phone to a new sim?
Agreed, except that it can still be more difficult to get an eSIM than a physical SIM in some parts of the world. It depends on where you are traveling.
That probably won't be an issue in the next couple of years.
why the hell do you need a plastic chip? its useless and redundant. get a username and password from the phone carrier and that's it. just like connecting to an ISP for example. why are people clinging to old technology for no reason.
Besides, phone carrier nowadays are exactly this: ISPs. they provide an IP and a bandwidth.
Most carriers don’t support eSim. Mostly just the more expensive ones do.
I’m on an inexpensive MVNO that supports eSim.
Same. I used to be on ting because it was only $18 a month. No esim support though. I recently switched to tello because now I only have to pay $10/month. Oh and they have esim support. (Also ting's mobile app appears to be no longer available which was a red flag for me that made me feel like maybe they were getting ready to shut down so I jumped ship
There are several companies that provide travel esims. I use knowroaming. Much more convenient than trying to find a shop that sells sim cards after you arrive.
maybe if people stop clinging to old techonology and use it the companies will be forced to advance as well. maybe stop using fax machines and they will stop producing them!
Someone should come in here and explain further, but I believe this becomes a big deal when traveling.
eSIMs are much more comfortable for travel, since you can purchase one online and activate it while still in your home country a few days before your flight, for example.
There, you just got a shitload of options, had the time to comfortably compare plans from your home PC while on home WiFi, and make sure you picked the best one.
Now compare this to: arriving, getting past customs, picking up your luggage from the belt, picking up your rental and oh no fuck I have to buy a SIM from the first scammy desk I can find at the airport or around town.
Thanks, but no thanks.
I am not going to argue either way on this. I am simply repeating the travel issue that I recall reading about when eSims first hit the scene. My understanding is that your example is just not super accurate for countries that you might not have been before - in other words, how do you know it will work or the network will be any good from 1/2 a world away. Especially in 3rd world countries where support and coverage might be iffy at best. Along with that is some of these networks from 3rd world countries might simply not support eSims at all.
Those are just some of the points that I recall.
Because I'm much more likely to lose/forget a username and password and going through the hassle of getting a hold of the carrier, proving who I am, and recovering said info is a bitch. I'd prefer to not go through that over and over. I buy my phone out right with no part of the carrier. They have no need to be a part of me switching phones.
Also a decent chunk of carriers outside of America only support physical sim cards so in alot of countries this phone would be useless.
There are password managers for that
Then click “forgot password”
ISPs also provides hardware.
very short sited comment
esims are neat tho
They may be neat, but I don't think that should be the only means of getting your phone connected to your carrier/telco.
(all carriers support and promote esim where i live)
what advantages do physical, external sims offer over built-in esim modules?
Physical Sims are easier to move around. So someone like a tech reviewer (as an extreme example) can flip their sim into any device for review and switch back without having to do anything further. With esim, generally the qr code initiates the process but doesn't actually represent the sim itself, so the sims are non-transferable. You usually need a new esim qr code and you have to interact with your carrier to move to the new eSIM; usually through an online sim transfer process.
Transplant that for people who travel and may have half a dozen sims for various destination locations which can be swapped out for any reason at any time. Hopping between carriers as they go. Landed in France? Cool, just pull out your collection of sims and pull your France Telecom company sim card, and pop it in. No internet/wifi/data/phone call needed.
For me, I use my esim as dual SIM, my esim is my personal SIM card. For work, I'm usually given a mobile number at least, so I take the sim that work provides and drop it in the physical SIM slot and I'm off to the races. If I'm fired or quit, I just pop it out and hand it back to them. With eSIM, they only have my word that is been removed, and they need to transfer it to a new eSIM QR code. It's just more hassle. With a physical SIM they just pop it into a new device for my replacement, or hand it to that person if they're bringing their own device to the table.... It's just a lot less hassle.
90% of people don't travel enough that the former is a problem, or change jobs enough that the latter is a problem. Most people put the sim into their phone and ignore it exists (as long as it keeps working). So for the vast majority eSIM is barely an inconvenience, and most of the work in transferring the eSIM will be done by the carrier employees when setting you up on a new device as part of an upgrade, so the vast majority of customers won't care or notice.
The main technical argument for eSIM is that it takes up substantially less internal space which can go towards making devices smaller, and lighter, or provide slightly larger batteries or storage or something.
I prefer having a sim as an option, but for the most part, I'm not going to be too bothered if they don't put it in.
you can usually store multiple esims on your phone tho and quickly swap between them... (with only one active at a time)
I have both my eSIM and physical SIM active at the same time; I need it this way, since it's my personal line and my work provided line, both of which need to be able to receive a call, more or less 24/7. I'm an IT tech, and if you're not familiar with the job, we end up on-call, 24/7. Usually there's a rotation to the on-call (one person is on call one week, another the next, etc etc). So I need access to my work SIM all the time. With dual-SIM (one physical, one eSIM), I can make and take phone calls on either, 24/7. I won't sacrifice either personal communication nor work communication for the other; and presently, I don't.
The caveat is that I can only have one of them active for data at a time; so I have to pick which one. To avoid putting a lot of personal data on my work SIM, or a lot of work data on my personal SIM, I limit my work-related data and keep my personal SIM active for data 90% of the time or more. Whenever work demands require that I use mobile data for something that's data intensive, I switch to my work SIM for the duration of that task (like tethering, or a video call or something). That's how I've structured it. I'd like for it to be able to have both connected and direct traffic around based on app, but no such structure exists either with iPhones, nor Android, so I cannot do that for the moment (which I believe would require another cellular modem - which would increase costs for the phone, and most people wouldn't need that).
I haven't used dual-eSIM, though I know it's possible to have multiple of them, and I don't know what the behaviour is with dual-eSIM in this regard.... Since it's a fairly niche use-case, I don't expect to have an answer without experimenting.
Physical sims are physical and contribute to unnecessary waste. Which is bad for the environment. Embrace digital. Personally i hope we can live in a star Trek utopia where we even get rid of currency
And so does buying a new phone every year... Which people do.
stupid apple sheep are gonna be stupid apple sheep, unfortunately.
If we're going to gatekeep on the matter of plastic waste, this is not the winning argument. There's far more common, far more severe wastes of plastic than SIM cards.
Walking to a supermarket in some random country you are traveling to and getting a sim worth 10$ to go.
My favorite phone I've ever had was an LG. I had two easily switchable batteries for it and an external charger. It had an SD card slot and a headphone jack. It did everything I needed it to do, and it had very little bloatware. Hell, it's over decade old or something, and it still works just fine. In fact, last time I used it, the battery lasted longer than ever since it doesn't have a SIM card anymore, I rooted it and removed every unnecessary app, and it spends all its time in flight mode occasionally playing MP3s. I've no doubt if I fired it up tomorrow, it'd still work, though Google would certainly complain that it hasn't been updated 8 bajillion times in the interim. Every phone I've had since then (Google Nexus 6P, Samsung Galaxy Note 9, and now an S23 Ultra) has had a better camera, a little bigger screen resolution, and was worse in just about every other way.
I'm still on an old ass LG because there is nothing that isnt a massive downgrade in functionality.
Because fuck what people want amiright?
Corporates: Because shits still sold amiright?
We only have ourselves to blame.
Microtransactions, subscriptions, non-removeable battery, no headphone jack, no sim slots, $2000 phones, $2000 GPUs,........ It's all us. We keep buying their shits no matter how much they screwed us.
And who gave people what they wants?
Fairphone: sustainable phone. -> No one buying.
Iphone: Sold out.
AMD GPUs: somewhat the lesser evil. -> No one buying.
Nvidia: Reach over a Trillion in value.
Framework laptop: fully repairable, upgradeable. -> No one buying.
MacBook: Sold out.
I said "No one buying" is just exaggerated, but you know what I mean.
It needs to be on regulators. Consumers aren't good at being informed or wearing hair shirt for long term goals. Little guys struggle competing with giants due to economy of scales.
Yeah, but then, who voted for those Corporate-minion dinosaurs?
Again, us.
The average age of US senator is 65, even higher than the retirement age. Those dinosaurs probably think anything gaming related is a "Pokemon" made by "Nintendo".
Old democracies are becoming the norm in the developed world I'm afraid. When it's our generation that are the old voters, we may be no better.
Fairphone not available within my reach
AMD GPU yes, RX 6700XT
Framework laptop not available within my reach instead bought toshiba's
I mean the Fairphone isn't even available in the States.
It is through Murena, but it is sold out for now.
So people are buying
What the shit? Really? That's dumb.
Eh. EM bands, regulations, supply chains, and marketing are complicated, is my read on it. Doubly so when you want to do everything sustainably and ethically, and then market that in a famously hyper-consumeristic country.
I wish they did sell it directly in North America. But I don't blame them for focusing on the EU where they're at home.
yup.
I'm still on a LG v20. Can't blame me for this.
My PC is i7-3770 from 2012, my laptop is $100 from craigslist, my phone is 5 years old Xiaomi, my handheld is Nintendo DSlite. Can't blame me either. :)
Ps:LG V20 is so neat, I still remember drooling over it when it's released, I was still a student back then so I can't afford it 😔
Yea IMO the V20 was the peak as far as phones go. Everything after that I looked at was stripping things out. It was expensive but I definitely got my money's worth out of it.
I mean of all the stupid shit to remove from a phone, why is the sim card THE big deal? I mean who the fuck cares? a SIM card is infrastructure dependent inherently, it is just a token for a network! What is the problem of storing the token for a network digitally. The SD slot and the headphone jack, Yeah those are useful. But the SIM slot? I don't get it.
if your phone dies you can easily love the sim card to the new one and move on with life.
edit: I'm keeping the typo
Move. And, yes.
Make love and have baby Sim cards
that's how nano Sim cards are made
There still are operators that don't support esim, like the one I'm on.
There won't be for long once the iPhone drops support
the iPhone already did... in the United States,
Then there won't be carriers that don't support it for long in the United States!
This started when we lost swappable batteries and it never stopped. Will never get over it either.
eSim is a good thing.
Sure, but current pixels support esim and regular sims. As someone who hops around phones often sim cards are unbeatable
Idk what you're experience with esim and switching phones is but Google Fi does it pretty much instantly for me. I've switched back and forth between my s21 and pixel 7 multiple times and never had an issue.
I disagree, but that's my opinion.
Why? It's like wanting a floppy drive when buying a new PC nowadays.
I'm exaggerating a bit, but physical SIMs will be redundant soon enough, no idea why you need a slot so bad?
You're exaggerating a lot. Floppy disks were barely in use 25 years ago.
I feel like a broken record at this point. So allow me to quote... myself
So what should it be then? Full size, mini, micro, nano?
This is not a new problem, if we keep relying on outdated technology, we'll get nowhere.
It's not outdated if it still works.
Soon phones are required to have replaceable batteries! At least in the EU
I had heard about that! Kinda nuts that America seems to just be universally doing the wrong thing about everything. We can't have nice things here, ever bc the worst people just want things to be worse.
Nah, the average consumer is kind of over it.
I remember being very happy that pixels went from 3 year support to 5. But then they got rid of the headphone jack, so I never bought it. Seems to have been the right choice.
I really miss it sometimes on my pixel 5. But having a physical sim and an e-sim active is really nice.
Well, I guess that rules out the Pixel 8 as my next phone. My telecom, as with most in my country, only issues eSIMs to phones that they officially support - in other words, Samsung Galaxy phones and iPhones only.
Tell them you have one of those. Problem solved.
Unless they have some fancy/magical way to install the esim remotely on your phone (which I highly doubt), they will just send you an email with a QR code to scan. And guess what, the Pixel can totally handle that.
Which telecom is that?
If you buy this pixel from Verizon, and use it as trade in for, say, samsung phone via their website, how are you supposed to get Sim service switched? You don't have Verizons phone (because you sent it to them), and your new phone doesn't have service (because they sell you a blank unlocked phone), nor is it connected to Verizons towers. You're going to be....expected to go to verizon? Use someone else's phone?
Like using someone else's car at the dmv for driving tests, it's horribly reliant on external factors and is fuckin' duuuuumb
I mailed in my last phone and it was a situation where it's "X" price /if/ they get the trade in within a certain number of days. So I had a few days where I had both phones and they warned me to do the switch over before I sent back the other phone.
Not my experience but I may have done it wrong lol. Samsung's fold4 shipments were so delayed I ended up 2 weeks without a phone after boxing up my Verizon branded Fold2 as trade in. But nah your explanation makes sense
You take the phone you get to Verizon before you send your trade out. You say, give me a SIM for a phone that doesn't support it or switch my number to this phone via an eSIM.
Most companies send you the new phone first and you have time to send the trade-in after the fact for a set amount of days. If you do this from Verizon to Verizon as another example the new phone should activate with an eSIM out of the box and move your number. If not, Google is working on a tool to fix that:https://www.droid-life.com/2023/08/22/first-look-at-androids-native-esim-transfer-tool/
This is not any offense to you as your questions are relevant and reasonable, but this post has proved my point that Lemmy users know jack shit about security and why this is a good change. If you want learn there is a good podcast that elaborates on the issue with current physical SIM standards: https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/118/
Since physical sims are well physical items. They create ewaste. Whereas esim which is not a physical item, doesn't.
Just embrace better technology
Just download more ram
Mark my words, this is coming. Once RAM is cheaper than having multiple production lines, you'll buy phones with RAM that is disabled and you'll have the option of enabling it OTA.
Let's not give them any more 'innovative' ideas.
Isn't there a designated chip for the esim? From what I found, it looks like it is a physical Item too. We could of course argue that standard sim require a sim reader on the phone.
But the possibility to replace a SIM if defective without replacing the whole phone is an advantage. You can also swap sim really easily when travelling.
But the esim doesn't need to be at the edge of the phone body. It enables significant simplification in layout design.
I don't think the size of a micro SIM is significant, considering the size of the phone it's in.
Sorry what? It creates a door, which needs to be sealed for IP rating, which needs to be located in physical relation to the edge of the phone body, needs power and data vias routed to/from which dictates the location of the radio, antennae etc. etc. etc.
It's absolutely impactful to the electronics design no matter the screen size, you just can't see all the decisions and compromises associated with it.
Yeah, I didn't think about the amount of tiny little parts it needs around it. But what I meant by that is that once a phone gets wasted, all the micro-tiny cables and plastic SIM door and the SIM's collective weight and volume are quite minuscule, compared to the phone's weight and volume. It's an improvement, for a fact. But is it really worth gutting that phone of the SIM slot for such a tiny improvement?
In theory, I like esims.
In practice, I worry that the manufacturers/networks will screw us over somehow as you can't just take their SIM out...
In my country you have to pay €10 every time you reset your phone to download the esim.
Think I'll pass.
What network and where? Many (the majority) networks offer it for free. There is talk of regulation forcing it to be free to download too, and it can't come soon enough.
In my country I was given the physical sim for free from Best buy. I felt like I was stealing walking out the store with it.
So does upgrading your phone every year. Yes, people do that.
As someone who switches between my iPhone and Pixel regularly for fun, this would kinda be a dealbreaker
I wanna know what the benefits and drawbacks are of esims?
Control for the carriers I believe.
Okay.
Pro: One less avenue for water ingress Con: last I checked a lot of budget mnvo's didn't support them.
I see...
There was that news article just the other day that some obnoxiously high percentage of youth (80%?) wanted iPhones over Android devices. There is a reason why every other phone company copies Apple and it isn't just because it is cheaper to copy than be original - Apple has a lock on the youth market. In this particular case, they are copying something not aesthetics/design related, but if you are going to copy one thing, you might as well copy everything that Apple does. Or at least that is what these companies believe they should so.
I'm a teenager too and these trends are stupid. The only two reasons in the United States for iPhones being popular are because of the "Ecosystem" and iMessage. Unlike every other country where they use an app like WhatsApp or Signal or Telegram and no one bats an eye on what you use. I find it better to stand out rather than blend in with the crowd.
Only in the US tho.
It is worse in Asia and I would say in parts of Europe it is just as bad. Apple's marketing is second to none and one thing teens care about more than anything else, that's image and branding.
I really have to wonder if teens prefer apple as a status symbol and peer pressure.
Whyyyyy
For now it's only a rumor based on leaked renders, it could be that the renders simply didn't have all the details. I'd be very surprised if Google really ditched physicals SIM cards as that would definitely hurt sales.
I dunno, they ditched the headphone jack when they shouldn't have.
Same goes for shipping power adapters with phones
To be fair, most headphone jacks were utter trash so it did not bother me too much, but I used to specifically choose LG because they had built in quad DACs for their phones. I choose a pixel now because it is the best phone otherwise.
I'd rather have that than nothing.
Oh, look more Lemmy users not understanding security, again. All because they hate big Apple and change because Apple did something is bad.
I am convinced Lemmy users are more prone to let their bias get in the way of actually understanding the benefits of this change and the reason this is going away.
If you want to educate yourself.
https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/118/
If you want a summary because you don't want to listen to a podcast or read the transcript of a podcast. There is a lot of theft occurring at the SIM card level in phones. This change is a bigger benefit than it is a negative. Is it annoying? Sure? Does it change how the phone functions? No.
Most phones can't dual SIM, and phones that do typically have issues. I am convinced this will quite literally not affect any of you, and if anything it protects the average consumer.
Pixel and iPhone have been doing eSIM for a while and I personally use a Google Fi number and First Net number. If you are wondering how the number transfer process will work then here is another article about how that is going to be handled: https://www.droid-life.com/2023/08/22/first-look-at-androids-native-esim-transfer-tool/
This means no one can just take your SIM card. They need to fully get into your phone. If you are worried about number transfer from telecom company to telecom company then you should know that is also already being handled and both Verizon and AT&T have implemented this change to their systems. You just transfer the number like normal and the systems generate an eSIM for you.
This is a win for security of your phone, you, and for your number.
While you do have great points, I'd personally rather have the option to have a SIM card than just having eSIM. Sure, there may be a huge security benefit, but again, i'd rather have the option to do so.
NGL, I went into this expecting it to be like the headphone jack thing... But you make a good point
Main argument is probably who actually supports esim and will people check that before buying a phone expecting it to work like any other phone they've ever owned. Good on the US for being ahead of the curve and having more providers support esim, but this is an international device and looks like support is piss poor everywhere else https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT209096 including in the UK where I am, my current provider doesn't support esim at all so I'll have to switch if I want one.
End or the day I think it's really a matter of what is simpler for consumers. I agree based on all your points esim is better, but given physical sims are a standard and probably will be for years to come it's absurd to remove support for them in flagship phones and just expect people and providers to switch to one that supports it.
Well, when Google jumps in the wagon and makes Android 14 support eSIM and Apple being one of the largest companies also does it. I would imagine others will as well. This kind of thing forces your carrier to finally get with the program and start supporting it that being said. There should be more concern that a phone manufacturer and telecom company aren't changing for the future and that future makes your life more secure.
It seems like the people that left Reddit for lemmy are mostly super biased in some way and highly argumentative. No one here is willing to have a discussion and recognize valid points from the other person, even if your opinion differs.
I recognize valid points. I just don't agree with them.
When it comes to this change I have personally not seen a valid point. The argument is being compared to the loss of battery swapping. These are not comparable in anyway is the issue. If you want to argue that you should be able to swap batteries in phones then I agree you should be able to.
However, eSIM versus physical SIM is an actual security advantage and a good change and the methods we will use to transfer them is all that will be different. The podcast transcript above is a good source for understanding why this is fundamentally different. Losing the ability to swap a battery sucks. However, there will be ways to swap a SIM while still keeping the end user safe and honestly even safer and it doesn't change how a SIM functions for your use of the phone. You could still swap a battery and an eSIM would literally not make a difference. The point is that you are not losing anything with no physical SIM your freedom to what you want with your phone hasn't changed in the same way that you can't replace your own battery because and eSIM can't be stolen or lost the same way a physical SIM.
I think Lemmy users are absolutely far more biased than they think and I have leaned in the few months I have been here that often times they just stick their way of thinking to something without even asking why this kind of change could be a good thing.
I have also found that Lemmy users don't know shit about security and privacy like they think they do. Lemmy as an app being the biggest example.
I know I'm biased when it comes to a lot of things, but I have devices that can never support eSIM and as those devices could be used as a device if my main phone ever breaks, I'd be SOL if I had an eSIM. Sure, you want to keep them safe. Why not just put the majority of phone users on eSIM and have the SIM card for people who would rather have that instead?
I 100% agree with you on eSim usage. Like you said, the only thing that changes for the user is how we transfer the SIM to the new device. But we also get the added benefit of better security. I love darknet diaries btw. Anyone that works in cyber or is considering a career in it should check it out for sure.
Welcome to the Internet bucko!
It's pretty crazy you can have more meaningful conversations in forums on the dark web than here.
Can you name one forum?
Dread, want another one?
NONONONO
eSIM kind of solves this issue to a degree. However it's up to network provider not to suck. In my country when you buy eSIM you get it on a folded cardboard which contains qr code. If am nit mistaken you can buy them on kiosks as well. So they work every bit as well as regular sim. Problem arises if you phone doesn't have regular Sim and country you are visiting doesn't have eSIM.
Then again this has fewer issues in EU due to no roaming charges.
Which is why I want a hard sim card.
How will all those Russian spies ever get to use all those copies of Sims 3 now?
eSims 3
Yeah but your carrier need to support eSim. And that's the issue.
While you have a point. I feel like you should have the option with a regular sim too. Maybe they could put their phone number on the eSIM for the common users, and have the regular SIM for people who want it.
What I mean by this is that the majority of users would have eSIM while the users with more technological knowhow could have the regular SIM instead.
If Google could do something like that, I'd be less disappointed.
I don't think I have it backwards. I have technological knowhow and I'd rather have the physical SIM. I don't want eSIM as my main thing. Especially since I have devices that don't even support eSIM in case my main device breaks or something like that.
If your theory is true, I still don't want that.
I would actually prefer this tbh. I setup my sim card for a new mobile plan from their app instantly. I couldn't do that with sim and would have to wait for them to ship. Unless you swap phones often, it's pretty much a lot better.
That's your opinion, but if you had a previous phone, you'd just swap the SIM card into the new device. While I personally disagree with your opinion, I understand your points.
Yeah that's definitely an advantage of traditional sim, but imo I think the upsides of esim outweigh that inconvenience
Understandable.
Now you will just do it electronically. This really isn't as big of a deal as I am seeing in the comments. You will just move them across devices. This already works on iPhones. When you move from an eSIM on a 13 to a 14 for example. It will be similar on Android. On top of that, security wise, this is an absolute win for the average consumer, albeit annoying for Lemmy users that can't bother to learn a thing or two about why.
https://www.androidauthority.com/android-esim-transfer-3356508/
Here is a podcast if you want to know a little bit more about why this is happening: https://a.lemmy.world/lemmy.world/post/3584474
In short, hot swapping is a big deal right now and it is costing people a lot of money and a lot of trust in telecom as well.
Not every phone I have supports esim. If my phone breaks for some reason, or something software wise happens to it and I don't have the time to deal with it at the moment. I can pop out my sim card and put it into another phone to get it working so I have something at the moment rather than nothing. The example I've provided has actually happened to me before and I'd be screwed if I had an eSIM instead.
iPhones and Pixels have had an eSIM for ages, in addition to their regular SIM slot.
Brought a 8849 tank 2 by unihertz which has a dual Sim card slot with a SD card slot.... I don't understand this trend of removing things from phones
removing things is also removing manufacturing complexity and reducing the number of points of failure. If it costs $0.13 to add a headphone jack, but an increasingly smaller number of your customers use it, eventually there's a tipping point where removing the feature is worth the grief the company will get from the noisy minority. Your manufacturing run of a million devices just got many thousands of dollars cheaper. Same with removable batteries, SIM slots, and CD drives in laptops, etc.
Leave removable batteries out of that list, that was about planned obsolescence
So now when it fails you need to buy a whole new phone instead of a replacement part. Everybody wins, except the consumer
We as customers don't give a fuck about manufacturing complexity. It's not like the products get cheaper when they remove this shit.
Image Transcription:
A close-up of the side of a Google Pixel 8 with a UK O2 SIM card next to it and the SIM card holder next to that. The text added underneath by user Gizmodo reads: Google Pixel 8 Could Eliminate the SIM Slot, Just Like the iPhone
[I am a human, if I’ve made a mistake please let me know. Please consider providing alt-text for ease of use. Thank you. 💜]
My pixel 4a is already like this after the cheap plastic sim tray broke. 🤷
I mean this doesn't help as much, but don't they sell replacement parts for it?
Oh great. So basically leaving me with no dual sim options (I live in a country where esim is not available yet.) Basically pushing me to Samsung. Nice work Google.
Esim should be on the device level rather then mobile network I thought. But assuming the phone companies do support eSim, you can still dual sim with them rather easily by installing an app or scanning a qr code.
You realize there are multiple variants of devices? Chances are there will be a universal or international version of the Pixel 8 on top of that this forces your carrier to support it which is a win because more choice.
Additionally, the Pixel 8 and Android 14 carry support for dual eSIM: https://www.androidpolice.com/android-14-dual-sim/
That is kind of the point of the Pixel. To be the iPhone of Android.
Not an apple fanboi but isnt that coming to the iphone in the next ios update?
Not sure what point is being made here. I'm saying that Pixel is the iPhone of Android because it is aimed at the same market. It is the stylish, simple, don't have to think about it solution that is updated regularly and has the best their OS can provide.
?
I mean that Pixel is the default, slick, polished option. It isn't like Samsung that has every software feature and form factor under the sun, the absolute best specs, the lowest price, etc.
It is the slick, polished default option. The option that you recommend everyone.
While you have a point, I think the pixel stands out because of the giant visor it has now. It stands out more than iPhones today.
Google is definitely embracing that look, but if we're cynical about it, that's also following in Apple's playbook. Apple basically made the home button on their older iPhones their design queue for years. And then they switched to the notch, and it was again their design signature. And recently they switched to the pill shaped camera cutout, and again, it's a design feature.
Amazing!
Or just accept a better technology.
I have older devices that don't support eSIM. "Accepting" it here wouldn't help one bit. Sure, my main device does support it, but if this device breaks, or something happens to the software (which has happened before on other devices I've owned), I would've been screwed out of a phone if I had eSIM.
Should I be saving up my extra sims? I’ve been throwing them away and now I feel I should’ve held onto them for a potential sim sacristy
Omg how surprising. I definitely didn't see that coming.
Great news!
If I don't have a SIM card slot, how do I plan on using my phone to.... oh I don't know, use a mobile phone network?
And how exactly will I swap between networks at will, by swapping SIMs, if I can't swap SIMs?
Ridiculous.
You can load multiple esims and choose which one you want to use for calls/data/text just like a physical SIM card
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESIM
Can you explain how to load multiple esims? I thought they were embedded into the device, akin to an IMEI and unchangeable.
The eSIMs in phones are reprogrammable with new "profiles", and Android can store multiple profiles and reprogram the eSIM with whichever one you want to use. Non-programmable eSIMs are only used in embedded devices.
Android 13 also has something called eSIM MEP that allows it to do dual SIM using a single eSIM chip.
Edit: here's Android documentation for developers on eSIM MEP: https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/esim-mep
Thank you for sharing your information, I did not know that at all. 👍
I don't understand why people cling on to crap, probably better me posting in unpopularopinion... but I just don't understand why people want a headphone jack, removable battery, SD card slot, SIM slot etc. I actively look to purchase phones that don't have this.
I recently bought a new phone and I'm quite frustrated that it doesn't have esim support. As others have mentioned, it'd make using your phone abroad so much easier. Surely in 2023 a physical SIM just shouldn't be needed any more...
Headphone jack means I can use the same earphones for years and not throw away my wireless earphones after a year (of heavy use). Whole point of Airpods was to create a new revenue stream for Apple, not just make your life easier.
Because having options is great.
not always. it's not always good to have options for the sake of options.
My phone is on it's 4th battery. If this one dies I can buy another one for 20$ and have them swapped in 20 seconds. My sd slot allows me to carry my entire music and game rom collection as well as a decent selection of movies. If I wanted it would be trivial to load the rest on SD cards and swap them out. The headphone jack allows me to use Wired headphones that dont cost 100+ dollars and don't have batteries that need to be charged and wear out. It also lets me plug my phone into my cars AUX jack and play the aforementioned music collection.
You don't want your phone to last very long or have the option to be expandable when you need it, which most people do want or need.
esim is purely a software thing it seems, I know my phone has a dual sim slot and esim and all of it has been very useful in my travels compared to just having one of those. I also know that the battery is getting old and I'm going to need to replace it with a lot of pain, I also need a little extra storage for videos.
There's also been situations where I do want to plug in my headphones into my phone and forget it doesn't have a headphone jack.
Here's also the reminder that having these features on a phone wouldn't compromise anything about it and that there's plenty space to have all of this, there's no reason not to advocate for having these features. Removing things like the sim slot might be good in the long run to force carriers to support esim, but for many people It's obviously a scary thing for now.
This isn't the case for the removable battery and aux port though as these will pretty much always be needed or at least be a good thing, or they can put some money into supporting USB to AUX better and make dongles that perfectly fit their phones.
Boy, you people will go out of your way to really bitch incessantly about anything and everything.
I'm a bitch, I'm a bitch. Oh, the bitch is back. Stone-cold sober as a matter of fact.