Sidenote: if you're pretending shit for internet points, at least try for 10 seconds to put yourself in the shoes of the person you're pretending to be...
Okay, I'm gonna bite the bullet and say it. This is disheartening. I'm not one to clutch pearls, but come on. Would you say this about anyone else? Dogs? Cats? Anything at all? Do you understand how fucked up it is? I just don't get it. It was the same in Reddit, and it's fucking same in here. Why do you hate children? You don't wanna have them, that's fine. Why would you say these things?
Maybe you're joking. Even after assuming that you are, this is in poor taste and a fucked up thing to say.
It's usually the air pressure causing the kid some pain from mild barotrauma / airplane ear. They can't help it. No amount of good or bad parenting changes the pressure differential in the inner ear.
See, here's the neat thing about things. You get to choose what you do and don't care about. Empathy should not go so far as to cost. Your baby is not my problem and it's your responsibility to keep it that way. I have my own, I didn't take them to public places till they were able to have some self control. Is that always possible? No, but it's really obvious if you are the type of person who doesn't even try.
noisy children, insufferable karens and the occasional nut job
but that doesn't mean I have much empathy for them.
Being loud in public imposes a cost on the people around you. In our society parents with babies are generally allowed to impose such a cost, but so are raving lunatics...
Part of using public transport is that you need to share it with the public, which is why I broadly detest it and cannot comprehend the fuck cars weirdos.
Couldn't agree more. The anti car movement among young millennials and Gen Z is weird as hell to me. I've lived in a large city and taken well designed public transit for years. Compared to living in a small city and driving, it's awful - so I left. There's a literal loss of freedom and autonomy that comes with it, and I can't fathom why the younger crowd wants to live in crowded apartments and post angry screeds to r/fuckcars. I like walking and hiking and biking too! I have no desire to do it in a city, so I have to drive somewhere uncrowded to do it. If public transit served those places, they would be crowded.
If you live in NA, you haven't lived in a walkable city designed for people over cars. You can find clearer explanations of the rationale from Strong Towns or NotJustBikes.
Your concerns are not unfounded, but they would benefit from some context.
Of course these things do exist but most of the time(at least in my experience) the problems are shitty parents.
For example I had 2 kids crawling under my seat for the whole flight(takeoff and landing included) and the parents just watched something on the phone.
Yet everyone seems to ignore that maybe, just maybe, that child is being “shitty” despite having good parents.
If you're bringing an infant onto a plane, you're a shitty parent.
Maybe she’s fleeing domestic violence and needs to get to family to safe.
You don't need a plane for this
Maybe the kid has a medical issue causing pain and discomfort and there’s not a damn thing the parent can do except get on that flight to see a specialist.
You don't need a plane for this
Maybe the mother has postpartum depression and unfortunately cannot properly care for her child so she’s seeking help elsewhere.
You don't need a plane for this
I think you can figure out the pattern for the rest of your points.
You can train dogs and cats to be quiet and sit still. Not all of them will be happy doing it for a long plane ride, but you can do it. Babies on the other hand? Babies don't give a fuck.
Hungry?
Scream.
Tired?
Scream.
Happy?
Scream.
Mad?
Scream
You can do everything right and the baby will still scream.
See, I have this speculation that early humans were fucking dumb, had no object permanence, couldn't keep track of their kids, and generally pretended they didn't exist unless they were being annoying. So their babies had to fucking scream as loud as a firetruck for their parents to not lose them.
That's the other thing too. The sound of a crying baby will drive anyone who doesn't have antisocial personality disorder or has been driven deaf by the wonders of childcare completely insane. Why? Because while the sheer volume of a baby's scream might not be as loud as a barking dog on an objective decibel scale, but when it comes to perceptual decibel levels, babies are loud. Our hearing sensitivity varies based on pitch. The higher the pitch, the more sensitive our ears are. On top of that, our brains are hardwired to have a reaction to a screaming baby, which can manifest itself as irritation, annoyance, frustration, and other negative emotions, because our primitive monkey brains are screeching, "WHY WON'T YOU TAKE CARE OF BABY!?" but we can't do anything because it's not our baby.
That's why people like to make jokes about dead babies, infant abuse, etc. Because babies are annoying as hell and literally everything they do is designed to make sure we know they're there at all times.
Edit: AND ONE MORE THING, have you ever wondered how a parent can love their baby when it's quiet but hate it when it's awake? Yeah, that's almost certainly a result of primitive humans trying to take advantage of the fact that the annoying poop demon was finally quiet and wasn't ear-fucking their monkey brain into guilt-tripping them anymore, so that they could ditch their babies when they were sleeping. So you can probably thank the negligent, sociopathic protohumans for babies being annoying as shit.
I love this theory that early (and current) humans were so incompetently stupid that we evolved to fucking scream all the time just so they don't walk away and forget us.
Considering how many kids get left in locked cars in the summer, as well as no other species of animal has annoying ass babies I have to canonize this as the Truth.
Consider this as well: if you're a primitive human and you have to take your baby somewhere, you're going to be praying to whatever deity(s) you believe are watching over you that your baby understands the severity of the situation and doesn't start screaming in the middle of the jungle. 'cause if it does, every predator in a 5 mile radius is going to hear your baby screaming and dinner bells will start going off in their heads. Our only major survival traits are our near-infinite stamina (if properly trained) and ability to magically fuse or deform useless objects into something useful. Additionally, the usefulness of both of those traits diminishes with the size of the group as a single human with a spear is far less likely to survive a tiger attack than two humans with spears. To put it another way, your baby will actively alert predators that you're burdened with its existence and that you could be free food so that you get removed from the gene pool if you're stupid or unlucky enough to travel alone.
Would you say this about anyone else? Dogs? Cats? Anything at all?
What an odd comparison, given that pets are crated and put in (a warm/pressurized part of) the cargo bay. Is that better then hiding under a seat or the overhead bin? It seems about the same to me.
No i wouldn't think this about dogs and cats etc. As those are not annoying 24/7. Of course there are dogs and cats that are but the majority is well behaved... unlike Babies
I don't get the rage that some of these comments have from seeing this meme.
It doesn't say that anyone actually did or said anything, just that their expression dropped after seeing an infant board a plane.
People are allowed to be disappointed. I mean, I don't think that most parents actually love hearing screaming and/or crying either. Is a (probably) brief facial expression seriously the same as hating all children, or wishing for them to dissapear to some of you guys? Jeez Louise.
I mean, normally I wouldn't give a hoot either way. Kids on the plane, no kids on the plane, whatever. If I had a migraine that day though, yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled. I wouldn't be upset at anyone for the noise in the slightest, but I also wouldn't be joyful about it.
Are we certain that that's the actual contect of the picture, or did someone just say it was? Is this the accurate, OG text on the picture? Did any one of those people actually say or do anything beyond a facial expression when seeing very small children board the plane?
Some of you guys need to take a deep breath and just relax. I'm referring to both extremes with this.
I'm gonna be unapologetically that person one day. Get into a tube full of stinky humans and complain that babies exist in the world. People need to get over themselves.
Especially now that Noise Cancelling headphones are everywhere and work as good as they do. Since I've got my Sony headphones a crying infant becomes only a really minor inconvenience
Tbf I don't think babies are the worst. They cry, but that's it. The kids that can talk walk and kick you are. And also let's always remember that the major anger is not about the kids but the lazy parents that think everyone else should suffer so that THEY don't have to deal with it.
I had a man in his 60s tell me "if you board a flight without noise canceling headphones in 2023, that's on you."
We were flying to Italy (from US) with our 5 month old to visit my Aunt one last time before she passed away a few months later. Baby cried here and there for a total of maybe 1.5 out of the 9 hours. We felt so guilty but people were incredibly nice at the end when we apologized for disturbing their flight.
She's a pretty good flyer overall but will throw her occasional 5 minute fits. I think about that man's joke after working our asses off to calm her down.
I don't know what kind of noise-cancelling headphones he has but mine wouldn't help against crying - they reduce the volume of buzzes, humms, and other background noises, but I can definitely still hear shrieks quite well.
Interesting. Not saying you're wrong because, sure, I can hear some crying with mine too but with music or a podcast playing its a distant background noise that my brain just kind of ignores, I guess. But I like to do work on planes so now I'm wondering if I just got used to tuning it out when I'm zoned in. I'm also one of those weirdos that can sleep on planes. So... I Might be in a small group of outliers on this one.
Yeah, noise cancelling headphones delete the mechanical noise and the standard level of chatter. Screaming is left in that void to come right on through and into your brain. They don't block angry baby screams, they make them stand out.
When you realize most of those judgemental passengers were those kids like 20 years ago (2003’sh). 😀
As long as there is effort from the parent’s side to help the baby adjust, then people should be more human and acknowledge this is how humans grow up!
No-one's claiming that it's unreasonable or unprecedented for kids to be noisy and disruptive due to (among other reasons) still-developing brains that can't fully process social norms and responsibilities.
We're saying that, given that everyone knows that fact, the parents who choose to bring poorly-behaved kids onto planes are being selfish and irresponsible.
The kids are mostly blameless in these situations - they're still developing, they can't (depending on age) be expected to be fully responsible. It's the parents that are selfish shitbags.
I didn't chose to be born nor did I chose to be a child. I have the right to be irritated though by other people's mistakes. It is completely OK not to make humans. We are not just mindless beasts only good for reproduction. People have a right to find people's poor life choices distasteful, lie smoking cigarettes and doing drugs.
Yes you should. That child is going to face pretty bad economic and climate times. The likelihood of them dying from climate change or starvation is going up. And because of covid damaging immune systems, dying of the increasing numbers of illnesses running around. Not to mention the return of once defeated diseases due to anti-vax movements.
They chose to bring a kid into a world of misery because they were needy, or they thought it would be cute, or whatever. Selfish reasons. That's who should go f themselves.
The likelihood of each of us dying goes up every day we wake up. So by your logic we might as well just all kill ourselves now and get it over with? As much as I agree with your list of real concerns, your suggesting we should put an end to human kind altogether because life is getting harder each generation?
Yes, I should hole myself in my house because I could potentially get hit by a car tomorrow. That’s what your reasoning sounds like.
Look, yes, the world is grim and the climate is changing, but why shouldn’t I instill the harsh realities of this world in my children so that they can grow up and cope and deal with this stuff. This sort of stuff is part of upbringing that should be instilled in our children so that they don’t grow up and make those mistakes.
Even more importantly, we should all lead by example and show them, by example, by being more active in the causes we care about enough to pursue so that life is more meaningful than mere existence.
This is how I was raised, and that’s how I intend to raise my children instead of cowering away from it and choosing not to have children which seems like the easy way out and really, is pretty pathetic.
So yes, people can go fuck themselves if they can’t deal with crying children. :-)
Maintaining the status quo is what keeps humanity from progressing. Slavery was acceptable and still is in many places, except for where the status quo was challenged. Having kids should no longer be the status quo and it won't be long until civil rights catch up to the abusive nature of being created without consent.
Maybe it's different in the USA, but I've travelled a lot and don't think I ever remember a long haul flight without multiple babies and young children. It's just a fact of travelling.
I recently did a 16hr flight solo and the other 3 seats in my row of 4 were parents and a toddler.
That's just part of flying and you should plan for it (noise cancelling headphones, sleeping tablets, ear plugs).
This is one of those things I see people complain about everyone complaining. Like vegans or CrossFit people. I've met far more people complaining about complaints than actual incidents.
Most of us get it. It's kids. I've seen obviously not emotional support animals brought in by asshats. Kids aren't my concern.
I don't think hours of noise canceling headphones are a realistic solution for everyone, like people with autism or sensitive ears.
What we should have is a "children's section" in the back of the plane. If your party only contains adults, then you can only book in the adult section until it's filled, and same with parties that have kids. Parents don't want to disrupt everyone, but imagine this on a longer bus or train ride!
When I bring my whole family somewhere I almost always book the farthest back on the plane I can. There doesn't have to be specific sections... just people with common courtesy.
but one thing I'm noticing as a common theme in these threads is that there's an innate blame on the children/parents. Kids oftentimes CANNOT pop their ears due to how narrow their Eustachian tubes are. https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/flying-ears.html There can be cases where the baby's ears actually tear if the Eustachian tubes are blocked due to a cold or something of that nature.
The better answer is to just educate them in a friendly manner. If you do it tactfully then maybe junior will simmer down and everyone can move on without this passive aggressiveness we see in the photo. Giving the kid a bottle (if they're that young) is often all that needs to happen to work the tubes open a little bit to relieve the pain.
Now... if you're a parent... and have a colicky little one... skip the plane if you can. You know your kid. If they're not going to take to the plane well, then you're just being a dick to everyone around you.
I've had to use canceling headphones for several hours a day for months due to asshole neighbours. Doing that provokes and exacerbates migraines. Using common sense and separating noise emitters from noise sufferers should always be the first step.
I have a dysfunctional baby. We took an 8 month old on a plane to Japan because of a family tragedy and she freaking got excited when we hit turbulence and when we landed. Five other babies lost their shit but my kids all giggling.
Actually, she also lost her shit in a literal way, Jesus fucking Christ the amount of poop that came out after the pressure change or someone. Ain't nobody talks about that but all babies shit their pants at landing--- pretty sure.
Why not make an airline for people with kids and then they could deck the inside of the plane out to make it fun for kids complete with a flying tube sized playground, maybe a mini arcade, and definitely a ball pit. The pilots could even be those creepy ass animatronic creatures from Chuck-E-Cheese.
I'm gonna be that guy in about a week, kid is 6 months. Any seasoned parents got good tips? It's not a long flight at least, only 2h.
Edit: Thank you all, I read every one of your replies. Flight goes at 6am, but we booked a night at the airport hotel so we just have to walk across the street. Baby will be in a carrier and get the bottle during takeoff/landing. Fingers crossed.
I think most people will give you credit for trying. Parents get it, non-parents who are non-assholes will also have some level of tolerance as long as it looks like you're doing your best to keep the child calm and quiet.
Shit happens. Kids are unpredictable.
You can also try a baby dose of benadryl to knock them out just before takeoff.
Googling your benadryl solution results in what I can only describe as the Internet desperately yelling at me to NOT DO THAT
The specific search terms being "benadryl to make baby sleep", resulting in the Office of the Child Advocate
Connecticut Child Fatality Review Panel's writing in all-caps
"CAREGIVERS SHOULD NEVER USE BENADRYL OR OTHER ANTIHISTAMINES IN ORDER TO GET THEIR INFANTS TO BE QUIET OR TO SLEEP. ANTIHISTAMINES LIKE BENADRYL SHOULD ONLY BE USED WHEN PRESCRIBED BY A LICENSED MEDICAL PROVIDER."
IMO, yes. As long as you’re following the label instructions. Otherwise, it shouldn’t be offered OTC. Also, as long as your child has no health conditions that may cause unwanted side effects. Your child should be getting regular check ups so as a parent, you should have an understanding of what is or isn’t okay for your child.
I’ve given my kids OTC meds without consulting their doctor first. I just read the label and gave them the recommended dosage. Sadly, they’re still kicking (jk jk, I love my kids lmao).
Unfortunately not yet. It only works the other way around right now. But I gotta be honest, if that baby yawns at me there is absolutely no chance for me to suppress that counter-yawn. The urge is super strong.
Child free by choice person here, though not the child hating kind.
At the end of the day, do your best. Your kid is all that matters. Focus on comfort, stuff to help with popped ears, and other soothing things that can help your baby sleep.
Feed them on the way up and the way down. Sucking/drinking greatly helps with the air pressure changes. We did that and worked wonders. We would walk of and people would be surprised there were children were in the plane.
When we flew for the first time (also short flight, baby was ~11 months) we had her in a carrier (ergobaby) and she fell asleep. I don't know if you planned on booking an extra seat or not, we didn't since it was a very small plane and there were no 3 seats in a row and also we didn't come by car (so bringing an extra maxi cosi would have been a nuicance). If you don't, you get a kind of extra seat belt to attach to your seat belt so the baby sits on your lap. What surprised us is that they didn't force us to take her out of the ergobaby but looked at us, basically saying "noiccce" with their eyes, and let us just sit like this. It was insanely more comfortable and actuallt more secure than with that seatseatbeltbelt consturction. I guess they realized this, I mean the baby is completely strapped to my body. Anyway, I was very grateful that it turned out there was no policy about having to use the seatseatbeltbelt and prohibiting the carrier. This way our baby was secure and slept for most of the flight (also on the way back. She slept 50/60 minutes one way and 60/60 the other.) The other obvious recommendation is breastfeed (/bottlefeed) on the lap during takeoff and landing.
Assuming your partner is breast-feeding, pop that kid on a nipple. We flew several times with young kids and being able to suckle kept the little ones quiet for most flights.
Don't give a shit what other people think. I went through puking etc. in transport and public places. Just focus on kid comfort and prepare yourself with bags, wet wipes and backup clothes.
This thread is goddamned train wreck. If you need to fly with young children, buy a big bag of those el cheapo foam ear plugs and pass them out to whomever wants some.
I don't have kids, and I have sensory issues that make baby crying noises physically painful, but I get it. Sometimes you need to take your tiny human places, and I just have to deal. It's a part of life.
One thing I will say about lemmy is y'all take shit way too seriously. It's a meme. A relatable one at that. Getting annoyed by children is normal and it's not like anyone's actively trying to get rid of your kids.
Screaming kids are easy to ignore on most flights but I recently had one on a 14.5+ hour flight (Asia to US). Screamed 10-20 mins every 1 to 2 hours. I got 2 hours of sleep and felt as if I had the flu.
Logical solution to this is to wait until your kid grows up a little bit and stops crying for no fucking reason. You can still travel with your toddler if you really want to, but use your own car. I don't get the reason to take a kid this young, to travel with you, since he's not going to remember anything anyway
You can have holidays in the same country that you live you know... Since you have a small child, it would be best to take care of him, instead of flying around in planes
Probably yeah, but also less stressful would be to plan your exotic seaside resort vacation in two years, when the little spawn of satan is not prone to crying for reasons classified.
Logical solution to this is to use your own means of transportation in order to be sure to be alone if you don't like children. You can still take a plane if you really want to, but use your own plane. I don't get the reason to take public means of transportation, since there will always be other people in them anyway.
Lol, allright let me just sit with my fucking toddler right next to you in a 6 hour flight. I coud've just waiter two years until he's old enough to not cry at random shit to take him to Spain, but fuck ya'll. I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me and my toddler
Either you seriously hate children to a ridiculous degree- in which case you need to see a therapist because this shit ain't healthy- or you're a troll.
Yes, because I disagree, I automatically hate children and I'm brain damaged. Very smart argument 👍. And I just started commenting, so of course all of my comments are going to be here, since I'm arguing with you all and your lame ass excusees
Genetics isn't destiny, but a lot of important traits are highly heritable. Consider for example the heritability of IQ. I can see why someone who considers him or herself a good specimen would want children more like him or herself that like the sort of person whose children end up needing to be adopted.
I imagine it wouldn't be profitable at all, but I would love services like flights, resturants, movies, etc that were adult only. Would be nice to just not have to deal with it.
It's unavoidable and a part of life you just have to deal with though. You roll your eyes, you turn up the noise cancelling on your headphones and you deal with it. But at the same time, parents should do all they can to keep their kids quiet and well behaved and maybe consider whether flights before their child is even a toddler are the best idea.
Spends hundreds of euros on a flight. Cant buy a noise cancelling heqdphone or earphone. I kinda assume a babys gonna cry when i fly because 200 people closed in an aluminium cylinder together isnt the most pleasant experience.
Noise cancelling headphones don't work against babies. They are designed for cancelling ambient sound by playing frequencies to cancel out the noise, but can't predict sudden noises like children crying very well. Earplugs or earbuds do a better job at drowning those out by plugging your ears from outside noises
30 years ago, when I was a child, my father was in the US Army. Because of that, we relocated all over the country every two years or so. We did NOT have the choice of whether or not to bring my baby brother onto the plane we couldn't even afford ourselves because the move was paid for by the Army. They say jump, you say "how high?".
You don't know every situation. And after 41 years of life, I don't pretend to know what someone else's situation is either. So I generally let dumb shit like this slide now. It's not important enough to get worked up over.
That's not how reassignments work if you have a family. You don't travel with a pack of grunts. You do it as a family on a civilian airline like everyone else.
Because while a baby on a plane might be annoying to other passengers, they're getting the worst of it and the contempt from others on top of that. Must be fun
Adults without kids should bring speakers with crying noises blasting from it. When people understandably get upset tell them to deal with your bad decisions.
If you unable or unwilling to take care of your child to keep them from making a scene and bothering people your child has no business being on a plane.
You know how everyone has the right to free speech, but saying some things makes them an asshole? Same situation. Legally you're allowed to bring babies on a plane to to a movie theater, but doing so makes you an asshole.
If you can't understand that then you're an entitled prick.
I used to think that way until I had my own baby. I understand the parents a lot more now. We don't bring our babies in flights/places to annoy anyone (some parents might do it, Idk :v). It's a complicated situation where we want to stay with our loved ones and at the same time don't be yelled by strangers who can't handle baby noises, trust us, we try to calm them down, if we could, babies wouldn't annoy so much, but they kinda have a mind of it's own 🙂 (stubbornness at its peak)
I don't expect anything to change, specially in the terms lf having patience with strangers, but... idk :v
I think perhaps you misunderstand. Most people don't think parents bring their kids along to deliberately disrupt travel. At least, I certainly hope that's not what people think.
But, intent is irrelevant. It doesn't stop it being annoying for some/many people.
As for the picture here. I suspect the reason more people are looking this way than usual. It looks to be a business class cabin. I know many people book business class because it more likely puts you at some distance from the noisier cabins. This looks like they probably have a dedicated business class boarding door. So they likely realise they're coming to sit in the same cabin.
If you book in economy, you're used to and expect it more, I think.
Yes, and I'm agreeing with you. But the animosity is a general illogical (but human) thinking of "Why did you bring them on MY flight?"
Like I say, when people reflect, they're not angry at the people, they're angry at the situation they're in. At least, I hope that's what normal people are doing.
Believe it or not, we're not all despondent nihilists, hell bent on self fulfilling prophecies of negligent apocalypse incapable of empathy and compassion for those who still gently carry that same flame that brought us all here, not yet lulled like so many into a dark shroud of self doubt and loathing by gluttonous corporations who grow fat on the grief and despair of those who are content to take what is given and slip through life soundless and meak, refusing to create change, however individual, however small, so sure that three hundred thousand years of humanity is unquestionably doomed to the darkness you choose to wallow in.
Some of us want to fight and we love our kids (and yours) and this world, and yes, we even love you nihilists, and we'll fight for you too.
I'm one of those nihilists but it doesn't mean I'm apathetic, it just means I'd rather help other people survive this shit than add another number to the count.
Also damn, are you the reincarnation of Hemingway or something? here I am checking out lemmy and you wrote a full on award winning post.
One of the best things about moving here from the bad place was how their senseless, rabid hatred of young people didn't carry over. It's heartbreaking to see sentiments like this starting to spread.
Come on. It's not that bad. Plus "maybe don't take babies on plane trips" doesn't equal "kill all babies" or "fuck Dem kids". There are many subtle levels.
The entitlement of the edgy childfree people (not all childfree people; most of you are cool) is hilarious. Screeching about entitled parents daring to take their children in public because they (the edgy childfree people) are entitled to being perfectly comfortable at all times. The irony is amazing.
And a bunch of entitled douchenoozles, not understanding that THEY used to be screaming babies too!
Edit: The replies to this are wild lol this platform really is just single dudes circle jerking. If you really have no compassion for the parent in this picture, you need to take a deep look at yourself.
I'm not a screaming infant anymore. And I chose not to reproduce because I didn't want to deal with screaming children. Not wanting to listen to someone else's screaming/crying children in an enclosed space you can't get away from them in isn't being a douche its expecting common courtesy and a pleasant experience everyone has pain potentially a lot of money for.
Tbh taking your baby on a trip is a giant waste of money. They aren't going to enjoy/remember it. And if you bring them on a plane they will have no clue what's going on, be stressed, and annoy everyone else
Exactly! All these parents and self absorbed people trying to come after me for my comment because they think they should be catered to or bent over backwards for because they popped out a kid is laughable. It's not a good experience for the kid and it's not a good experience for other passengers who had no input on the kid being there.
Don't be stupid. It's on the parents not the infant. Nobody cares if the infant cries some, or if they do they aren't worth talking to. The point is if you know you can't control your child or have no way to handle them on a plane, you have no business bringing them and you should've driven. Simple as that.
"You used to be a child once, so you aren't allowed to be frustrated at any behaviours of children or choices of their caregivers" sure is a perspective.
Yes, I was once a child. And if my parents had taken me on a flight before I was sufficiently mature not to yell during it, they would have been being irresponsible and selfish. "Babies scream, sometimes there's nothing you can do to stop them" is true, but doesn't imply that you should be allowed to take them anywhere.
What about ugly people or people with body odour? Do we not allow them to travel on planes, too? I can easily block noise with earplugs. Can't really plug my nose or keep my eyes closed all the time.
Why is everyone else responsible for your comfort? Wanting all families banned from airtravel just because wearing earplugs is asking too much is in my opinion a lot more selfish than bringing a child onto a plane.
Neither of those things you described are intentional life-choices that people have planned, so no, it is not the same thing at all.
Why is everyone else responsible for your comfort?
This is a circular argument I've seen a lot of times on this thread (from several people), so I'm going to respond to it just once and then stop engaging here because this whole thread is not convincing anyone. Both sides of this issue believe that that argument supports them:
Pro-babies think "other passengers should just bring earplugs, I don't have to be responsible for their comfort" (let's leave aside for a moment the question of whether earplugs are actually fully effective against screaming children (they're not) and give this view the benefit of the doubt)
Anti-babies think "just don't bring the baby on the plane. The whole rest of the plane shouldn't have to adapt to your choices"
The thing is, one of these groups of people is knowingly introducing a factor that will cause distress to hundreds of people and is saying "fuck all of you if you aren't prepared to adapt to my choices", and the other group is saying..."please don't do that". The latter feels way more reasonable to me.
The key point here seems to be that air travel is considered to be a fundamental inalienable right, something which should not and cannot be denied. Parents are saying things like "well without air travel, how are we supposed to go on holiday", to which the answer is...maybe you're not (or you go by car/boat) until the baby's a real human? Maybe that was something you should have thought about before you had a child? Maybe, just maybe, it should be the cultural and social norm that a choice that you made does not permit you to inflict the negative outcomes of that choice on a tube of strangers?
JFC, some of these responses here about people with children “should” do this or that. This is precisely why Reddit and most social media is cancer and people filled with 0 social and life skills.
Parents shouldn’t have to do anything. If you have an issue with a crying child, the onus is on you to find another space for yourself to make yourself comfortable instead of mandating what other people should/should not do.
Does that mean that parents should let their kids run around? Hell no. But this also means that you stop acting like another baby and find a way to adjust just like everyone else incl other parents.
Please don't fly with your kids, especially babies, and if you do, please for the love of all that might be holy, don't do it in business and first class!
People in business class or first class are almost never rich. Sky mile programs, travel credit card point programs, gaming point relationships between airlines and affiliates can make business and first quite affordable. And for when it can't be affordable, if someone is paying for it, it's not usually for luxury. I try to always send my wife at least business class so she is treated MUCH more as a human being than she normally has been in coach, as she is a minority and disabled. Rich people charter planes or own them. Those in business class are usually people who just plan ahead better than you. And if you're jealous of that, then you're a jealous piece of something.
Lol. I'm also not the biggest fan of children, but what are the parents supposed to do? Not having vacation? Leave them home alone? Throw them out the window on the drive to the airport?
Don't have vacations or visit family even if it's for a wedding or funeral. Stay inside your house until your kids graduate high school to be sure. Having a life is not worth the possibility of inconveniencing other people for a few hours every so often. You're ruining other people's lives if you do so.
last flight I was on had a crying kid and a guy who kept trying to slip booze into his coffee and had to be confronted several times.
guess who was the most annoying one.
point is, flying fucking sucks, most mature adults realise this and just get through it despite the discomfort. complaining about it like an entitled prick demanding certain people can't fly is frankly pathetic
Screaming children are half the reason flying sucks. If your kid does not do well in public, pick another vacation or have someone watch them. Part of the responsibility that comes with having kids.
Why would they care about your opinion enough to not go on holiday where they want? If you want to fly without the chance of noisy kids then fly first class, or better still, private jet.
No? Can't afford? Suck it up then lol, people are going to live their lives regardless of a bit of noise that you can easily cancel out with headphones.
No? Can't afford? Suck it up then lol, people are going to live their lives regardless of a bit of noise that you can easily cancel out with headphones.
Lmao How about the parents suck it up and choose a different vacation where they're not subjecting the public to their terrors? I didn't choose to have kids, I should not have to put up with other people's kids. Too many people have kids who have no business being parents.
For a night, for a couple days maybe but for weeks? Hell no, that is not what babysitters are for. And you’re delusional if you think so. A parent who leaves their kids with a stranger for weeks is not a good parent and could be brought up on child abandonment charges.
Oh yeah, one hundred percent. The only reason I got kids was to make sure they can take care of my retirement.
Just as I'm taking care of my parents. I have totally absolutely 100% not broken off all contact with them because of their shitty behaviour. No sir, absolutely not.
Usually, yes. Stay home or have a sitter or nanny. If it's a family emergency or tragedy, benedryl for the child before the flight. Do NOT change the child outside of the plane's lavatory. Premium economy, not business class, as premium has some perks for bringing your baby, is more affordable than business class. Daytime flights if possible. Red-eye's people want to sleep. Be prepared, binkies, blankets, diapers, quiet toys, etc. Try to fly when you will have the most energy, hard to parent if you yourself are sleeping from exhaustion. (not always a choice, we know.) Insure your flight. If the baby is sick, colic, or especially if it has inner ear problems, don't go or again, arrange care for the child. No need to make the baby suffer, and in turn making you and everyone else miserable, too. Many people will not be kind if the child wasn't feeling well and kept them up 14 hours, which will be hard on you in addition to your own exhaustion.
It’s not. But it’s much easier to deal with kids on a 2hr flight than it is to deal with them on a multiple day drive. And just because I have kids doesn’t mean I have to choose the more difficult option. I say this as a parent who has driven across the country with my kids, multiple times.
But it’s much easier to deal with kids on a 2hr flight than it is to deal with them on a multiple day drive
"I'll make everyone's flight miserable because I don't want to experience the bad consequences of my choices"
And just because I have kids doesn’t mean I have to choose the more difficult option.
you did choose the more difficult option the moment you chose to have children. having children comes with inconveniences and because that's your choice to have children you have to deal with the consequences, not others
Lmao dude. Get off your high horse. Your comfort doesn’t trump mine and vice versa. If anyone is entitled here, it’s you, believing that parents have to always go out of their way to make sure everyone else is comfortable just because they have kids and you don’t.
I'm going to go with the very opposite opinion. Don't fly with your kids, especially babies, but if you do, do it ONLY in business and first class. Working class people have enough shit without having to deal with your baby.
Up to you. May or may not go well for you. While I won't do anything to you except an unkind look, you don't know who else we're flying with and what they might be going through. You really want to risk you or your child's well being just be right? Have you seen the crazy's on planes lately? I'll tell you this, if someone does read you the riot act or worse, I sure as hell won't come to your aid. And despite wanting to film such a happening to see you miserable or worse, I won't, because I won't want to contribute to giving you evidence you could use against your attacker(s). If you think it's terrible I wouldn't try to protect your baby, not my fault you were such a terrible parent that the child would have been better off being aborted than being your child.
OP, 2023.
Sidenote: if you're pretending shit for internet points, at least try for 10 seconds to put yourself in the shoes of the person you're pretending to be...
Give them a break, they haven't slept in weeks/months/years
Yes, I traded an iPod for them
Self reporting here.
Rothbard moment
Yeah, I can't even begin to address how much is wrong with that.
I know, right? Why would you willingly keep a child? Just put it away or put it down.
Carry ons should be put in the overhead bin or tuck under your seat.
If you carry your baby onto the plane, be kind to your fellow passengers and put it in the bin.
and not on kbin
Okay, I'm gonna bite the bullet and say it. This is disheartening. I'm not one to clutch pearls, but come on. Would you say this about anyone else? Dogs? Cats? Anything at all? Do you understand how fucked up it is? I just don't get it. It was the same in Reddit, and it's fucking same in here. Why do you hate children? You don't wanna have them, that's fine. Why would you say these things?
Maybe you're joking. Even after assuming that you are, this is in poor taste and a fucked up thing to say.
Gee, you think?
Finish that line, buddy.
I'm not your buddy, pal, and I don't appreciate the accusation.
I'm not your pal, guy
Im not your guy, amigo
Yeah, I agree with you on that one.
U don't hate children but what i hate is that one child with shitty parents will ruin the entire flight for everyone else.
It's usually the air pressure causing the kid some pain from mild barotrauma / airplane ear. They can't help it. No amount of good or bad parenting changes the pressure differential in the inner ear.
See, here's the neat thing about things. You get to choose what you do and don't care about. Empathy should not go so far as to cost. Your baby is not my problem and it's your responsibility to keep it that way. I have my own, I didn't take them to public places till they were able to have some self control. Is that always possible? No, but it's really obvious if you are the type of person who doesn't even try.
I expect
but that doesn't mean I have much empathy for them.
Being loud in public imposes a cost on the people around you. In our society parents with babies are generally allowed to impose such a cost, but so are raving lunatics...
Couldn't agree more. The anti car movement among young millennials and Gen Z is weird as hell to me. I've lived in a large city and taken well designed public transit for years. Compared to living in a small city and driving, it's awful - so I left. There's a literal loss of freedom and autonomy that comes with it, and I can't fathom why the younger crowd wants to live in crowded apartments and post angry screeds to r/fuckcars. I like walking and hiking and biking too! I have no desire to do it in a city, so I have to drive somewhere uncrowded to do it. If public transit served those places, they would be crowded.
If you live in NA, you haven't lived in a walkable city designed for people over cars. You can find clearer explanations of the rationale from Strong Towns or NotJustBikes.
Your concerns are not unfounded, but they would benefit from some context.
Of course these things do exist but most of the time(at least in my experience) the problems are shitty parents.
For example I had 2 kids crawling under my seat for the whole flight(takeoff and landing included) and the parents just watched something on the phone.
If you're bringing an infant onto a plane, you're a shitty parent.
You don't need a plane for this
You don't need a plane for this
You don't need a plane for this
I think you can figure out the pattern for the rest of your points.
You can train dogs and cats to be quiet and sit still. Not all of them will be happy doing it for a long plane ride, but you can do it. Babies on the other hand? Babies don't give a fuck.
Hungry?
Scream.
Tired?
Scream.
Happy?
Scream.
Mad?
Scream
You can do everything right and the baby will still scream.
See, I have this speculation that early humans were fucking dumb, had no object permanence, couldn't keep track of their kids, and generally pretended they didn't exist unless they were being annoying. So their babies had to fucking scream as loud as a firetruck for their parents to not lose them.
That's the other thing too. The sound of a crying baby will drive anyone who doesn't have antisocial personality disorder or has been driven deaf by the wonders of childcare completely insane. Why? Because while the sheer volume of a baby's scream might not be as loud as a barking dog on an objective decibel scale, but when it comes to perceptual decibel levels, babies are loud. Our hearing sensitivity varies based on pitch. The higher the pitch, the more sensitive our ears are. On top of that, our brains are hardwired to have a reaction to a screaming baby, which can manifest itself as irritation, annoyance, frustration, and other negative emotions, because our primitive monkey brains are screeching, "WHY WON'T YOU TAKE CARE OF BABY!?" but we can't do anything because it's not our baby.
That's why people like to make jokes about dead babies, infant abuse, etc. Because babies are annoying as hell and literally everything they do is designed to make sure we know they're there at all times.
Edit: AND ONE MORE THING, have you ever wondered how a parent can love their baby when it's quiet but hate it when it's awake? Yeah, that's almost certainly a result of primitive humans trying to take advantage of the fact that the annoying poop demon was finally quiet and wasn't ear-fucking their monkey brain into guilt-tripping them anymore, so that they could ditch their babies when they were sleeping. So you can probably thank the negligent, sociopathic protohumans for babies being annoying as shit.
To be honest you can train your baby to be quiet, it just takes like 12 years
Considering some babies i know, it's still failure after 50+ years...
I love this theory that early (and current) humans were so incompetently stupid that we evolved to fucking scream all the time just so they don't walk away and forget us.
Considering how many kids get left in locked cars in the summer, as well as no other species of animal has annoying ass babies I have to canonize this as the Truth.
Consider this as well: if you're a primitive human and you have to take your baby somewhere, you're going to be praying to whatever deity(s) you believe are watching over you that your baby understands the severity of the situation and doesn't start screaming in the middle of the jungle. 'cause if it does, every predator in a 5 mile radius is going to hear your baby screaming and dinner bells will start going off in their heads. Our only major survival traits are our near-infinite stamina (if properly trained) and ability to magically fuse or deform useless objects into something useful. Additionally, the usefulness of both of those traits diminishes with the size of the group as a single human with a spear is far less likely to survive a tiger attack than two humans with spears. To put it another way, your baby will actively alert predators that you're burdened with its existence and that you could be free food so that you get removed from the gene pool if you're stupid or unlucky enough to travel alone.
Babies evolved to cry all the time because their parents had this habit of making the species that just looked at the baby in a weird way go extinct.
What an odd comparison, given that pets are crated and put in (a warm/pressurized part of) the cargo bay. Is that better then hiding under a seat or the overhead bin? It seems about the same to me.
No i wouldn't think this about dogs and cats etc. As those are not annoying 24/7. Of course there are dogs and cats that are but the majority is well behaved... unlike Babies
Good. Making Anthony Jeselnik proud.
I don't get the rage that some of these comments have from seeing this meme.
It doesn't say that anyone actually did or said anything, just that their expression dropped after seeing an infant board a plane.
People are allowed to be disappointed. I mean, I don't think that most parents actually love hearing screaming and/or crying either. Is a (probably) brief facial expression seriously the same as hating all children, or wishing for them to dissapear to some of you guys? Jeez Louise.
I mean, normally I wouldn't give a hoot either way. Kids on the plane, no kids on the plane, whatever. If I had a migraine that day though, yeah, I wouldn't be thrilled. I wouldn't be upset at anyone for the noise in the slightest, but I also wouldn't be joyful about it.
Are we certain that that's the actual contect of the picture, or did someone just say it was? Is this the accurate, OG text on the picture? Did any one of those people actually say or do anything beyond a facial expression when seeing very small children board the plane?
Some of you guys need to take a deep breath and just relax. I'm referring to both extremes with this.
How anybody flies without noise-canceling headphones these days is beyond me.
If pets can travel in the cargo hold hopped up on benzos and ketamine, why can't babies? Or me?
I'm gonna be unapologetically that person one day. Get into a tube full of stinky humans and complain that babies exist in the world. People need to get over themselves.
Especially now that Noise Cancelling headphones are everywhere and work as good as they do. Since I've got my Sony headphones a crying infant becomes only a really minor inconvenience
While this reads like a Sony advert, I have to agree.
Children don't only make noise. So noise canceling headphones only handle one possibility of the outcomes.
Tbf I don't think babies are the worst. They cry, but that's it. The kids that can talk walk and kick you are. And also let's always remember that the major anger is not about the kids but the lazy parents that think everyone else should suffer so that THEY don't have to deal with it.
Well, someone not watching their kid while the kid harasses or kicks you is a different story.
99% of the time that's the case
I had a man in his 60s tell me "if you board a flight without noise canceling headphones in 2023, that's on you."
We were flying to Italy (from US) with our 5 month old to visit my Aunt one last time before she passed away a few months later. Baby cried here and there for a total of maybe 1.5 out of the 9 hours. We felt so guilty but people were incredibly nice at the end when we apologized for disturbing their flight.
She's a pretty good flyer overall but will throw her occasional 5 minute fits. I think about that man's joke after working our asses off to calm her down.
I don't know what kind of noise-cancelling headphones he has but mine wouldn't help against crying - they reduce the volume of buzzes, humms, and other background noises, but I can definitely still hear shrieks quite well.
⭐
Interesting. Not saying you're wrong because, sure, I can hear some crying with mine too but with music or a podcast playing its a distant background noise that my brain just kind of ignores, I guess. But I like to do work on planes so now I'm wondering if I just got used to tuning it out when I'm zoned in. I'm also one of those weirdos that can sleep on planes. So... I Might be in a small group of outliers on this one.
Being angry at babies is what pathetic people do.they cant do much about their situation.
Its on their parents but... as you say.. sometimes you just gotta fly. With the kid.
Yeah, noise cancelling headphones delete the mechanical noise and the standard level of chatter. Screaming is left in that void to come right on through and into your brain. They don't block angry baby screams, they make them stand out.
When you realize most of those judgemental passengers were those kids like 20 years ago (2003’sh). 😀
As long as there is effort from the parent’s side to help the baby adjust, then people should be more human and acknowledge this is how humans grow up!
No-one's claiming that it's unreasonable or unprecedented for kids to be noisy and disruptive due to (among other reasons) still-developing brains that can't fully process social norms and responsibilities.
We're saying that, given that everyone knows that fact, the parents who choose to bring poorly-behaved kids onto planes are being selfish and irresponsible.
The kids are mostly blameless in these situations - they're still developing, they can't (depending on age) be expected to be fully responsible. It's the parents that are selfish shitbags.
I didn't chose to be born nor did I chose to be a child. I have the right to be irritated though by other people's mistakes. It is completely OK not to make humans. We are not just mindless beasts only good for reproduction. People have a right to find people's poor life choices distasteful, lie smoking cigarettes and doing drugs.
Anybody that complains about children and babies can go fuck themselves. You shouldn’t have to feel guilty for being a parent.
Yes you should. That child is going to face pretty bad economic and climate times. The likelihood of them dying from climate change or starvation is going up. And because of covid damaging immune systems, dying of the increasing numbers of illnesses running around. Not to mention the return of once defeated diseases due to anti-vax movements.
They chose to bring a kid into a world of misery because they were needy, or they thought it would be cute, or whatever. Selfish reasons. That's who should go f themselves.
You should try getting out of the house.
You’re assumption that I don’t is in error.
The likelihood of each of us dying goes up every day we wake up. So by your logic we might as well just all kill ourselves now and get it over with? As much as I agree with your list of real concerns, your suggesting we should put an end to human kind altogether because life is getting harder each generation?
Whatever, man. You’re going to do or say whatever.
Hahaha bro. Go touch grass.
While we still can.
Yes, I should hole myself in my house because I could potentially get hit by a car tomorrow. That’s what your reasoning sounds like.
Look, yes, the world is grim and the climate is changing, but why shouldn’t I instill the harsh realities of this world in my children so that they can grow up and cope and deal with this stuff. This sort of stuff is part of upbringing that should be instilled in our children so that they don’t grow up and make those mistakes.
Even more importantly, we should all lead by example and show them, by example, by being more active in the causes we care about enough to pursue so that life is more meaningful than mere existence.
This is how I was raised, and that’s how I intend to raise my children instead of cowering away from it and choosing not to have children which seems like the easy way out and really, is pretty pathetic.
So yes, people can go fuck themselves if they can’t deal with crying children. :-)
Justify it however you want. You’re a terrible person who like hurting your child and annoying everyone. Got it.
Considering your cowardly outlook on life, your words don’t hold any weight.
Maintaining the status quo is what keeps humanity from progressing. Slavery was acceptable and still is in many places, except for where the status quo was challenged. Having kids should no longer be the status quo and it won't be long until civil rights catch up to the abusive nature of being created without consent.
Except it's a choice.
Maybe it's different in the USA, but I've travelled a lot and don't think I ever remember a long haul flight without multiple babies and young children. It's just a fact of travelling.
I recently did a 16hr flight solo and the other 3 seats in my row of 4 were parents and a toddler.
That's just part of flying and you should plan for it (noise cancelling headphones, sleeping tablets, ear plugs).
This is one of those things I see people complain about everyone complaining. Like vegans or CrossFit people. I've met far more people complaining about complaints than actual incidents.
Most of us get it. It's kids. I've seen obviously not emotional support animals brought in by asshats. Kids aren't my concern.
I don't think hours of noise canceling headphones are a realistic solution for everyone, like people with autism or sensitive ears.
What we should have is a "children's section" in the back of the plane. If your party only contains adults, then you can only book in the adult section until it's filled, and same with parties that have kids. Parents don't want to disrupt everyone, but imagine this on a longer bus or train ride!
I DROVE across Canada rather than dare take a plane with a possibility of screaming and kicking children. Sensory issues are a bitch.
When I bring my whole family somewhere I almost always book the farthest back on the plane I can. There doesn't have to be specific sections... just people with common courtesy.
but one thing I'm noticing as a common theme in these threads is that there's an innate blame on the children/parents. Kids oftentimes CANNOT pop their ears due to how narrow their Eustachian tubes are. https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/flying-ears.html There can be cases where the baby's ears actually tear if the Eustachian tubes are blocked due to a cold or something of that nature.
The better answer is to just educate them in a friendly manner. If you do it tactfully then maybe junior will simmer down and everyone can move on without this passive aggressiveness we see in the photo. Giving the kid a bottle (if they're that young) is often all that needs to happen to work the tubes open a little bit to relieve the pain.
Now... if you're a parent... and have a colicky little one... skip the plane if you can. You know your kid. If they're not going to take to the plane well, then you're just being a dick to everyone around you.
I've had to use canceling headphones for several hours a day for months due to asshole neighbours. Doing that provokes and exacerbates migraines. Using common sense and separating noise emitters from noise sufferers should always be the first step.
oh my god it’s so relieving to hear that i’m not the only one
Imagine being a childless person in a children' section. No one should have this kind of pain for hours
Yep, during booking they should only show the back rows available if you're traveling with children of certain age. It should be simple, I think.
I have a dysfunctional baby. We took an 8 month old on a plane to Japan because of a family tragedy and she freaking got excited when we hit turbulence and when we landed. Five other babies lost their shit but my kids all giggling.
Actually, she also lost her shit in a literal way, Jesus fucking Christ the amount of poop that came out after the pressure change or someone. Ain't nobody talks about that but all babies shit their pants at landing--- pretty sure.
Get her a dirt bike and a ramp. You may have a future stunt woman on your hands.
Why not make an airline for people with kids and then they could deck the inside of the plane out to make it fun for kids complete with a flying tube sized playground, maybe a mini arcade, and definitely a ball pit. The pilots could even be those creepy ass animatronic creatures from Chuck-E-Cheese.
I'm gonna be that guy in about a week, kid is 6 months. Any seasoned parents got good tips? It's not a long flight at least, only 2h.
Edit: Thank you all, I read every one of your replies. Flight goes at 6am, but we booked a night at the airport hotel so we just have to walk across the street. Baby will be in a carrier and get the bottle during takeoff/landing. Fingers crossed.
Since Roe v Wade has been overturned, I'm all out of ideas
I think most people will give you credit for trying. Parents get it, non-parents who are non-assholes will also have some level of tolerance as long as it looks like you're doing your best to keep the child calm and quiet.
Shit happens. Kids are unpredictable.
You can also try a baby dose of benadryl to knock them out just before takeoff.
Googling your benadryl solution results in what I can only describe as the Internet desperately yelling at me to NOT DO THAT
The specific search terms being "benadryl to make baby sleep", resulting in the Office of the Child Advocate Connecticut Child Fatality Review Panel's writing in all-caps
Try googling infants or children’s Benedryl. Definitely never give your kids regular adult meds. But the infant/child options should be okay.
should be okay ... administered by a parent at will?
IMO, yes. As long as you’re following the label instructions. Otherwise, it shouldn’t be offered OTC. Also, as long as your child has no health conditions that may cause unwanted side effects. Your child should be getting regular check ups so as a parent, you should have an understanding of what is or isn’t okay for your child.
I’ve given my kids OTC meds without consulting their doctor first. I just read the label and gave them the recommended dosage. Sadly, they’re still kicking (jk jk, I love my kids lmao).
To avoid the screaming ear popping, have them eat some baby food, or those teething crackers. The sucking and chewing should help pop their ears.
Also yawning, if they see you yawn it makes them yawn.
Unfortunately not yet. It only works the other way around right now. But I gotta be honest, if that baby yawns at me there is absolutely no chance for me to suppress that counter-yawn. The urge is super strong.
Well that's probably a good thing and means you have some social connection or empathy with the baby! Lucky baby!
Not a seasoned parent but have been through this process. Try to get enough sleep yourself so you can give the necessary attention while traveling.
2 hours in the plane also means like another 3 hours in the car + airport queues. Don’t forget that bit.
Sleep deprivation is a great reason why parents are angry with kids and can’t focus even for a minute due to irritability.
The kids are the only ones on the plane who are going home with you
Child free by choice person here, though not the child hating kind.
At the end of the day, do your best. Your kid is all that matters. Focus on comfort, stuff to help with popped ears, and other soothing things that can help your baby sleep.
Feed them on the way up and the way down. Sucking/drinking greatly helps with the air pressure changes. We did that and worked wonders. We would walk of and people would be surprised there were children were in the plane.
When we flew for the first time (also short flight, baby was ~11 months) we had her in a carrier (ergobaby) and she fell asleep. I don't know if you planned on booking an extra seat or not, we didn't since it was a very small plane and there were no 3 seats in a row and also we didn't come by car (so bringing an extra maxi cosi would have been a nuicance). If you don't, you get a kind of extra seat belt to attach to your seat belt so the baby sits on your lap. What surprised us is that they didn't force us to take her out of the ergobaby but looked at us, basically saying "noiccce" with their eyes, and let us just sit like this. It was insanely more comfortable and actuallt more secure than with that seatseatbeltbelt consturction. I guess they realized this, I mean the baby is completely strapped to my body. Anyway, I was very grateful that it turned out there was no policy about having to use the seatseatbeltbelt and prohibiting the carrier. This way our baby was secure and slept for most of the flight (also on the way back. She slept 50/60 minutes one way and 60/60 the other.) The other obvious recommendation is breastfeed (/bottlefeed) on the lap during takeoff and landing.
Assuming your partner is breast-feeding, pop that kid on a nipple. We flew several times with young kids and being able to suckle kept the little ones quiet for most flights.
Don't give a shit what other people think. I went through puking etc. in transport and public places. Just focus on kid comfort and prepare yourself with bags, wet wipes and backup clothes.
Just keep loving them. Fuck everyone else. They'll get over it.
2 hours, you're good.
Fly when your kid normally sleeps. Practice having them sleep on you. Motrin for kids.
This thread is goddamned train wreck. If you need to fly with young children, buy a big bag of those el cheapo foam ear plugs and pass them out to whomever wants some.
I don't have kids, and I have sensory issues that make baby crying noises physically painful, but I get it. Sometimes you need to take your tiny human places, and I just have to deal. It's a part of life.
This ass taking weird selfies in his first class seat looks so entitled
not gonna lie that guy has an incredibly punchable face
there are quite a few people that have faces that just have a "punch me" written on them. he is one. I am not a violent person
One thing I will say about lemmy is y'all take shit way too seriously. It's a meme. A relatable one at that. Getting annoyed by children is normal and it's not like anyone's actively trying to get rid of your kids.
Screaming kids are easy to ignore on most flights but I recently had one on a 14.5+ hour flight (Asia to US). Screamed 10-20 mins every 1 to 2 hours. I got 2 hours of sleep and felt as if I had the flu.
Honestly? You should.
Thanks, Satan!
Right?
I just fly Delta cause parents can't afford it 🤷 Problem solved.
I miss Delta. I always flew Delta, but my wife likes to be frugal.
Were you forced to have kids at gunpoint?
Logical solution to this is to wait until your kid grows up a little bit and stops crying for no fucking reason. You can still travel with your toddler if you really want to, but use your own car. I don't get the reason to take a kid this young, to travel with you, since he's not going to remember anything anyway
Yes I’ll just load my kids up into the car and drive across the fucking ocean to see my family.
Because, as we all know, the only way of travelling across the ocean is by plane.
It doesn't take a month to travel by ship.
Greta could do it in less than 2 weeks. And that was in a sailboat.
It won't kill you to not go to Norway for a couple of years
It is also nice to not be on a plane with crying kids.
That would solve a lot of problems... You should get on that.
You're not entitled to dictate other peoples' behavior in a public place that you both paid to be at.
I'M NOT???
People have families lol
We all have families...
Doesn't mean you have to fly somewhere for a simple holiday.
Could you? Then we can find that child a better parent.
It’s a baby, baby don’t know, baby don’t care. YOU want time in Spain. Ffs
You can have holidays in the same country that you live you know... Since you have a small child, it would be best to take care of him, instead of flying around in planes
Probably yeah, but also less stressful would be to plan your exotic seaside resort vacation in two years, when the little spawn of satan is not prone to crying for reasons classified.
Are you forced to take a plane at gunpoint?
Logical solution to this is to use your own means of transportation in order to be sure to be alone if you don't like children. You can still take a plane if you really want to, but use your own plane. I don't get the reason to take public means of transportation, since there will always be other people in them anyway.
Oh right I’ll just take one of my many planes that I have just fucking lying around
It was an answer to Mycoolnejm, not to you ^^
Lol, allright let me just sit with my fucking toddler right next to you in a 6 hour flight. I coud've just waiter two years until he's old enough to not cry at random shit to take him to Spain, but fuck ya'll. I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me and my toddler
90% of your profile's comments are in this thread
Either you seriously hate children to a ridiculous degree- in which case you need to see a therapist because this shit ain't healthy- or you're a troll.
I'm going with troll.
Yes, because I disagree, I automatically hate children and I'm brain damaged. Very smart argument 👍. And I just started commenting, so of course all of my comments are going to be here, since I'm arguing with you all and your lame ass excusees
yah please do no one wants your little shits around.
don’t go on holiday if you have cum pets. You chose that when you couldn’t keep it in your pants.
i stay quiet and read my book and don’t annoy the entire plane/train/bus.
You're annoying the entirety of lemmy instead
I'm here on lemmy, and I think he right fine. Shit, I should buy him a beer. It's the baby's that annoy, aaaand their entitled parents.
You do realize you don't have to take a plane to go on vacation, right? It won't kill you to not take a plane for a couple of years
One kind of people makes humanity not go extinct in the near future.
humans are an overpopulated and invasive species, there are millions of human children waiting to be fostered
Genetics isn't destiny, but a lot of important traits are highly heritable. Consider for example the heritability of IQ. I can see why someone who considers him or herself a good specimen would want children more like him or herself that like the sort of person whose children end up needing to be adopted.
yeah that actually makes sense
Eh, I'm mortal anyway. I don't benefit from other people's annoying offspring being around after I'm gone.
Yeah, that's why I leave them alone and I want them to leave me alone.
I imagine it wouldn't be profitable at all, but I would love services like flights, resturants, movies, etc that were adult only. Would be nice to just not have to deal with it.
It's unavoidable and a part of life you just have to deal with though. You roll your eyes, you turn up the noise cancelling on your headphones and you deal with it. But at the same time, parents should do all they can to keep their kids quiet and well behaved and maybe consider whether flights before their child is even a toddler are the best idea.
Dang that’s a big plane! 4x4??
That motherfucker is not real
Spends hundreds of euros on a flight. Cant buy a noise cancelling heqdphone or earphone. I kinda assume a babys gonna cry when i fly because 200 people closed in an aluminium cylinder together isnt the most pleasant experience.
Hell, after dealing with airports I want to cry. I just have a bit more self control than the infants and toddlers.
Not much more, mind you.
Noise cancelling headphones don't work against babies. They are designed for cancelling ambient sound by playing frequencies to cancel out the noise, but can't predict sudden noises like children crying very well. Earplugs or earbuds do a better job at drowning those out by plugging your ears from outside noises
Cause they are entitled parents that think just because they can content with their own child, everyone else around them should too.
It is not like they are the ones using noise cancelling headphones in planes.
Well mine wark great with babies crying as well but i do have 350€ headphones sooo
Benadryl.
Damn I feel bad for the parents
They chose to bring the baby on the plane.
No shit? That doesn't somehow stop my sympathy
30 years ago, when I was a child, my father was in the US Army. Because of that, we relocated all over the country every two years or so. We did NOT have the choice of whether or not to bring my baby brother onto the plane we couldn't even afford ourselves because the move was paid for by the Army. They say jump, you say "how high?".
You don't know every situation. And after 41 years of life, I don't pretend to know what someone else's situation is either. So I generally let dumb shit like this slide now. It's not important enough to get worked up over.
Then it is up to the US army to prepare a plane. You and your brother can sit next to the soldiers.
That's not how reassignments work if you have a family. You don't travel with a pack of grunts. You do it as a family on a civilian airline like everyone else.
Why? They chose a life of hell.
Because while a baby on a plane might be annoying to other passengers, they're getting the worst of it and the contempt from others on top of that. Must be fun
Don't want to be pedantic but you don't "own" children, you are parent.
Ugh, parents going somewhere long distance? Disgusting. You should be on house arrest until at least 18 months.
./s
Adults without kids should bring speakers with crying noises blasting from it. When people understandably get upset tell them to deal with your bad decisions.
Bad parents just suck
One time, my one year old niece screamed all the way from Barbados BGI to London Gatwick
I was glad of my headphones.
She was fine on the way out there though
I'd be interested in acquiring some children. For... purposes... Where can I get some?
If you unable or unwilling to take care of your child to keep them from making a scene and bothering people your child has no business being on a plane.
Agreed. I don’t have kids and I feel that it’s my responsibility to bring earplugs and headphones if I want a quiet flight.
Or maybe people shouldn't bring toddlers on a plane. You don't need a plane to have a perfectly fine vacation.
your second sentence is a solution for you too
As if that's a good reason to make a flight completely miserable
If the option is between:
"Kicking out everyone except for the bad parent with noisy children"
or
"Kicking out the bad parent with the noisy children"
I know which option I would pick.
so you want freedom to fly but think others don't. A+ hypocrisy
You know how everyone has the right to free speech, but saying some things makes them an asshole? Same situation. Legally you're allowed to bring babies on a plane to to a movie theater, but doing so makes you an asshole.
If you can't understand that then you're an entitled prick.
nah I just think complaining about I makes someone a wanker
ANC headphones don't work against shrieking cum pets.
Everyone acting like they weren’t a kid themselves at some point in life. Get over yourself and stfu.
Parent who fly with toddlers here. My kids made noise throughout the entire flight. To those passengers who got mad, you know what I think: Fuck you!
To be clear, I never met anyone who was angry. Most people made fun with them and enjoyed seeing the youth
Seems that everyone forgets they were kids once . I mean, we were not born adults and intolerant, right?...
That's irrelevant. Yes, we were all kids once. That doesn't make children any less annoying to travel with.
I used to think that way until I had my own baby. I understand the parents a lot more now. We don't bring our babies in flights/places to annoy anyone (some parents might do it, Idk :v). It's a complicated situation where we want to stay with our loved ones and at the same time don't be yelled by strangers who can't handle baby noises, trust us, we try to calm them down, if we could, babies wouldn't annoy so much, but they kinda have a mind of it's own 🙂 (stubbornness at its peak) I don't expect anything to change, specially in the terms lf having patience with strangers, but... idk :v
I think perhaps you misunderstand. Most people don't think parents bring their kids along to deliberately disrupt travel. At least, I certainly hope that's not what people think.
But, intent is irrelevant. It doesn't stop it being annoying for some/many people.
As for the picture here. I suspect the reason more people are looking this way than usual. It looks to be a business class cabin. I know many people book business class because it more likely puts you at some distance from the noisier cabins. This looks like they probably have a dedicated business class boarding door. So they likely realise they're coming to sit in the same cabin.
If you book in economy, you're used to and expect it more, I think.
The main point here was: parents wants their children to be quiet as much as strangers do
Yes, and I'm agreeing with you. But the animosity is a general illogical (but human) thinking of "Why did you bring them on MY flight?"
Like I say, when people reflect, they're not angry at the people, they're angry at the situation they're in. At least, I hope that's what normal people are doing.
here's a solution:
don't take planes for a few years until the child doesn't cry for no reason anymore
just stay home then
you chose to have children, in this day and age where all they’ll ever know is suffering and pain
so don’t make everyone else’s life worse because you just had to creampie someone.
Believe it or not, we're not all despondent nihilists, hell bent on self fulfilling prophecies of negligent apocalypse incapable of empathy and compassion for those who still gently carry that same flame that brought us all here, not yet lulled like so many into a dark shroud of self doubt and loathing by gluttonous corporations who grow fat on the grief and despair of those who are content to take what is given and slip through life soundless and meak, refusing to create change, however individual, however small, so sure that three hundred thousand years of humanity is unquestionably doomed to the darkness you choose to wallow in.
Some of us want to fight and we love our kids (and yours) and this world, and yes, we even love you nihilists, and we'll fight for you too.
how will you fight for nihilists?
I'm one of those nihilists but it doesn't mean I'm apathetic, it just means I'd rather help other people survive this shit than add another number to the count.
Also damn, are you the reincarnation of Hemingway or something? here I am checking out lemmy and you wrote a full on award winning post.
Or like, you could stay home if normal things that happen in public bother you so much.
Tbh, I don't have a single memory from when I was an infant.
Most babies are born crying and yelling for a manager, they're just bad at forming sentences.
That's so true lol
Is it a Sync problem or a Lemmy problem that comments seem to be in wrong threads? 🤔
Fine in Jerboa.
One of the best things about moving here from the bad place was how their senseless, rabid hatred of young people didn't carry over. It's heartbreaking to see sentiments like this starting to spread.
Come on. It's not that bad. Plus "maybe don't take babies on plane trips" doesn't equal "kill all babies" or "fuck Dem kids". There are many subtle levels.
And you think you didn't annoy the fuck out of your own parents when you were one?
That's irrelevant. Yes, we were all kids once. That doesn't make children any less annoying to travel with. Source: RealEarthHuman
Huh? Maybe you should reread my comment
Edit: I love it when people just downvote without providing context
Except people don't hate the babies for screaming on the plane. They blame the parents for bringing them on the plane.
I was never a kid on a plane, because I don't have bad parents.
yes but they chose to have children
Not anymore in some states.
The entitlement of the edgy childfree people (not all childfree people; most of you are cool) is hilarious. Screeching about entitled parents daring to take their children in public because they (the edgy childfree people) are entitled to being perfectly comfortable at all times. The irony is amazing.
In this picture:
1 cute baby
1 caring parent taking his kids on a trip
And a bunch of entitled douchenoozles, not understanding that THEY used to be screaming babies too!
Edit: The replies to this are wild lol this platform really is just single dudes circle jerking. If you really have no compassion for the parent in this picture, you need to take a deep look at yourself.
I'm not a screaming infant anymore. And I chose not to reproduce because I didn't want to deal with screaming children. Not wanting to listen to someone else's screaming/crying children in an enclosed space you can't get away from them in isn't being a douche its expecting common courtesy and a pleasant experience everyone has pain potentially a lot of money for.
Tbh taking your baby on a trip is a giant waste of money. They aren't going to enjoy/remember it. And if you bring them on a plane they will have no clue what's going on, be stressed, and annoy everyone else
Exactly! All these parents and self absorbed people trying to come after me for my comment because they think they should be catered to or bent over backwards for because they popped out a kid is laughable. It's not a good experience for the kid and it's not a good experience for other passengers who had no input on the kid being there.
people travel for reasons other than just taking holidays too...
Why are all of you assuming people are going on vacation? People travel for all sorts of reasons.
Why isn't this infant baby showing common courtesy? My God does this infant have no shame?
Fucking lol
Don't be stupid. It's on the parents not the infant. Nobody cares if the infant cries some, or if they do they aren't worth talking to. The point is if you know you can't control your child or have no way to handle them on a plane, you have no business bringing them and you should've driven. Simple as that.
Why are you under the assumption all parents who travel are doing so for leisure?
Cause they would pick other options than the plane if it wasn't.
"You used to be a child once, so you aren't allowed to be frustrated at any behaviours of children or choices of their caregivers" sure is a perspective.
Yes, I was once a child. And if my parents had taken me on a flight before I was sufficiently mature not to yell during it, they would have been being irresponsible and selfish. "Babies scream, sometimes there's nothing you can do to stop them" is true, but doesn't imply that you should be allowed to take them anywhere.
What about ugly people or people with body odour? Do we not allow them to travel on planes, too? I can easily block noise with earplugs. Can't really plug my nose or keep my eyes closed all the time.
Why is everyone else responsible for your comfort? Wanting all families banned from airtravel just because wearing earplugs is asking too much is in my opinion a lot more selfish than bringing a child onto a plane.
They get called out all the time.
Remember the story of Andre the Giant that took a shit on a plane and they had to make an emergency stop?
They should do the same when a baby starts to cry.
Neither of those things you described are intentional life-choices that people have planned, so no, it is not the same thing at all.
This is a circular argument I've seen a lot of times on this thread (from several people), so I'm going to respond to it just once and then stop engaging here because this whole thread is not convincing anyone. Both sides of this issue believe that that argument supports them:
The thing is, one of these groups of people is knowingly introducing a factor that will cause distress to hundreds of people and is saying "fuck all of you if you aren't prepared to adapt to my choices", and the other group is saying..."please don't do that". The latter feels way more reasonable to me.
The key point here seems to be that air travel is considered to be a fundamental inalienable right, something which should not and cannot be denied. Parents are saying things like "well without air travel, how are we supposed to go on holiday", to which the answer is...maybe you're not (or you go by car/boat) until the baby's a real human? Maybe that was something you should have thought about before you had a child? Maybe, just maybe, it should be the cultural and social norm that a choice that you made does not permit you to inflict the negative outcomes of that choice on a tube of strangers?
Body odour is - thanks to deodorant - very much a choice.
You are right, air travel is no fundamental right. Same as air travel in complete silence.
Ugh, forget it. The majority here are young people, mostly men, without any experience with children.
I've had plenty of experience with children crying on planes.
Well, what would you expect from someone who says they "own" children?
It's a joke...
JFC, some of these responses here about people with children “should” do this or that. This is precisely why Reddit and most social media is cancer and people filled with 0 social and life skills.
Parents shouldn’t have to do anything. If you have an issue with a crying child, the onus is on you to find another space for yourself to make yourself comfortable instead of mandating what other people should/should not do.
Does that mean that parents should let their kids run around? Hell no. But this also means that you stop acting like another baby and find a way to adjust just like everyone else incl other parents.
Please don't fly with your kids, especially babies, and if you do, please for the love of all that might be holy, don't do it in business and first class!
Based and energy pilled.
People in business class or first class are almost never rich. Sky mile programs, travel credit card point programs, gaming point relationships between airlines and affiliates can make business and first quite affordable. And for when it can't be affordable, if someone is paying for it, it's not usually for luxury. I try to always send my wife at least business class so she is treated MUCH more as a human being than she normally has been in coach, as she is a minority and disabled. Rich people charter planes or own them. Those in business class are usually people who just plan ahead better than you. And if you're jealous of that, then you're a jealous piece of something.
Lol. I'm also not the biggest fan of children, but what are the parents supposed to do? Not having vacation? Leave them home alone? Throw them out the window on the drive to the airport?
Don't have vacations or visit family even if it's for a wedding or funeral. Stay inside your house until your kids graduate high school to be sure. Having a life is not worth the possibility of inconveniencing other people for a few hours every so often. You're ruining other people's lives if you do so.
They can pick a vacation where they don't have to fly... They chose to have kids and that comes with a lot of baggage.
last flight I was on had a crying kid and a guy who kept trying to slip booze into his coffee and had to be confronted several times.
guess who was the most annoying one.
point is, flying fucking sucks, most mature adults realise this and just get through it despite the discomfort. complaining about it like an entitled prick demanding certain people can't fly is frankly pathetic
Screaming children are half the reason flying sucks. If your kid does not do well in public, pick another vacation or have someone watch them. Part of the responsibility that comes with having kids.
Why would they care about your opinion enough to not go on holiday where they want? If you want to fly without the chance of noisy kids then fly first class, or better still, private jet.
No? Can't afford? Suck it up then lol, people are going to live their lives regardless of a bit of noise that you can easily cancel out with headphones.
hell yeah, fuck them poor people
Lmao How about the parents suck it up and choose a different vacation where they're not subjecting the public to their terrors? I didn't choose to have kids, I should not have to put up with other people's kids. Too many people have kids who have no business being parents.
get a sitter. If you can afford a holiday, budget for a sitter.
Or don’t have holidays until the snot factories are old enough to behave if you can’t afford a sitter. You chose to have children.
Yes, because it’s perfectly normal to leave your young kids with strangers for a couple weeks while you go on holiday, or visit family.
Then don't go on vacation until they're old enough to be well behaved lmao
The same can be said for adults.
Couldn't agree more lol
For a night, for a couple days maybe but for weeks? Hell no, that is not what babysitters are for. And you’re delusional if you think so. A parent who leaves their kids with a stranger for weeks is not a good parent and could be brought up on child abandonment charges.
Let's see who will pay for your retirement and medical care eventually... (unless if you live in that US hellscape ofcourse)
If that's all you're having kids for please do not have kids.
Oh yeah, one hundred percent. The only reason I got kids was to make sure they can take care of my retirement.
Just as I'm taking care of my parents. I have totally absolutely 100% not broken off all contact with them because of their shitty behaviour. No sir, absolutely not.
If you're having kids with the express intent that they care for you when you're old, you're already doing it wrong.
well most likely be dead before anyone under 30 reaches that age.
Usually, yes. Stay home or have a sitter or nanny. If it's a family emergency or tragedy, benedryl for the child before the flight. Do NOT change the child outside of the plane's lavatory. Premium economy, not business class, as premium has some perks for bringing your baby, is more affordable than business class. Daytime flights if possible. Red-eye's people want to sleep. Be prepared, binkies, blankets, diapers, quiet toys, etc. Try to fly when you will have the most energy, hard to parent if you yourself are sleeping from exhaustion. (not always a choice, we know.) Insure your flight. If the baby is sick, colic, or especially if it has inner ear problems, don't go or again, arrange care for the child. No need to make the baby suffer, and in turn making you and everyone else miserable, too. Many people will not be kind if the child wasn't feeling well and kept them up 14 hours, which will be hard on you in addition to your own exhaustion.
Why do you need to fly for vacation? When did flying for vacation become mandatory?
It’s not. But it’s much easier to deal with kids on a 2hr flight than it is to deal with them on a multiple day drive. And just because I have kids doesn’t mean I have to choose the more difficult option. I say this as a parent who has driven across the country with my kids, multiple times.
You require a multiple days drive for a vacation?
Oh, I was speaking for other people. I’ve never actually been on a vacation.
"I'll make everyone's flight miserable because I don't want to experience the bad consequences of my choices"
you did choose the more difficult option the moment you chose to have children. having children comes with inconveniences and because that's your choice to have children you have to deal with the consequences, not others
Lmao yes, I have to make my life more difficult because I chose to have kids. That makes perfect sense.
'your choices, your consequences'
not 'your choices, everyone else's consqeuences'
it isn't that hard to understand is it? your entitlement is insane
Lmao dude. Get off your high horse. Your comfort doesn’t trump mine and vice versa. If anyone is entitled here, it’s you, believing that parents have to always go out of their way to make sure everyone else is comfortable just because they have kids and you don’t.
Please don't leave your house, and if you do, please for the love that might be holy don't do it in areas actually inhabited by people.
Please tell that to parents who can't keep their kids polite in public. Being a child is not an excuse to be a monster.
I'm going to go with the very opposite opinion. Don't fly with your kids, especially babies, but if you do, do it ONLY in business and first class. Working class people have enough shit without having to deal with your baby.
Uh, we're working class people who are paying to avoid your baby.
I'm going to do it and then laugh at your annoyance.
Up to you. May or may not go well for you. While I won't do anything to you except an unkind look, you don't know who else we're flying with and what they might be going through. You really want to risk you or your child's well being just be right? Have you seen the crazy's on planes lately? I'll tell you this, if someone does read you the riot act or worse, I sure as hell won't come to your aid. And despite wanting to film such a happening to see you miserable or worse, I won't, because I won't want to contribute to giving you evidence you could use against your attacker(s). If you think it's terrible I wouldn't try to protect your baby, not my fault you were such a terrible parent that the child would have been better off being aborted than being your child.
If someone attacked me or my child on a plane I would fuck them up real bad.
While we popcorn and watch your inflight entertainment.
Ah, so you are as unmannered as your kids, good to know.
If you have to fly business with the rest of the poors that can't afford a private jet, you don't get to complain.