Spyke

Only 16% of Italians would fight for their country, survey shows

The survey by the Centre for Social Investment Studies (CENSIS) showed 39% of Italians aged between 18 and 45 would declare themselves as pacifist conscientious objectors, 19% would try to evade conscription another way, and 26% would prefer Italy to hire foreign mercenaries.

https://www.reuters.com/world/only-16-italians-would-fight-their-country-survey-shows-2025-07-18/Open linkView original on lemmy.zip
lemmy.world

To "fight for your country" has been coopted so many times for wars in far away lands, ideological wars, wars of aggression, that the phrasing alone will make people assume they are being lied to and that somebody is fishing for dumb people to be sent into the meat grinder.

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lemmy.world

"fight for your country" has been coopted

Maybe, but surveys like this have been held in several countries and most show a higher percentage of willingness..Seemingly, most respondents there didn't have this association.

Idk about Italy specifically, or the difference in phrasing per study though.

Add. another factor could be the disinformation landscape. statista

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lemmy.world

China and Russia's absence makes this meaningless.

What do you mean, you aren't talking about the graph, right?

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lemmy.world

Do you see China and Russia's ranking on the statista graph?

Duh, ofcourse you dont. It's a disinformation chart in free democratic countries. Also if you check the comments it was used as an argument concerning an European research.

When we talk about disinformation we commonly refer to Ruzz disinformation, and we mean their psyops hybrid disinformation campaigns in ** democratic** countries.

If you want to see a chart that might answer your question here is one

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ggtdbzreply
lemmy.dbzer0.com

These charts are always suspect when they have a literal apartheid regime run by scores of howling fascists marked as democratic.

I guess as long as you accept their idea where democracy only applies to part of the population, then yes, part of the population can pretend they live in a democratic society. Nothing wrong with just not considering other people as people, no sir. Only freedom here.

(I don’t disagree that disinfo is usually discussed in the context of countries where people are more likely to affect policy)

1
feddit.org

I'd rather migrate to another country than to risk my life and the ones I love for a pointless war driven by maniac idiots.

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saimenreply
feddit.org

Me too. But sometimes I am also wondering what then. Sooner or later the maniac idiots will come to the other country as well and maybe it's better to fight them before they get even stronger.

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Zacryonreply
feddit.org

Maybe. But for a foreseeable lifetime this wouldn't be my problem and not worth risking my life. Life is way too precious to throw it away so easily by becoming a cog in the war machine.

2
lemmy.sdf.org

for a foreseeable lifetime this wouldn’t be my problem

Just one example among many why this isn't the case, at least if you live in a non-democratic country.

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Zacryonreply
feddit.org

Good thing I don't have children and don't live in such a shitty country.

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lemmy.sdf.org

"The unwilling were tasered or had their papers signed for them”: Russia’s fall conscription drive reaches new levels of brutality -- (Dec 2024)

[...] Law enforcement officers break into young men’s homes, dress in plain clothes to ambush them near buildings, and handcuff them in subway stations and shopping malls. Newly drafted conscripts are even apprehended during trips to other cities and dragged into police cars in the streets. Conscripts and their families [say that] military enlistment officials, together with Russia’s National Guard (Rosgvardiya), tase prospective soldiers with electric shockers and threaten them with criminal charges in an effort to force them into uniform [...]

This reality does little to increase the draft's popularity. Instead, it has led enlistment offices to act more aggressively. Aside from the all too familiar tactic of “same-day transfers to the assembly point” — a practice that gained traction in the fall of 2022 — conscripts are subjected to beatings, handcuffing, detention at enlistment offices, and are coerced into signing contracts with Russia’s Ministry of Defense on the spot [...]

As one Russian man tells in the article:

"They came around noon and started ringing the doorbell. My mother refused to open, but they broke the lock and came inside. They justified their intrusion by claiming the apartment was municipally owned and, therefore, they had the right to enter whenever they pleased. They tried to intimidate everyone. My mother stood in the hallway, yelling and trying to block their way, but they pushed her aside harshly, leaving bruises on her arm, and made their way inside [the home].

"My sister started recording everything on her phone. Three men came in. They identified themselves as Nikolai Igorevich Yakushev, a sergeant from the Khoroshevo-Mnevniki [District] police department, and Alexander Balashov, the senior district officer. With them was a plainclothes man — a bald guy who refused to identify himself. We later realized he was from the draft office.”

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Yes, this is horrible. Luckily I don't live in such an inhumane nation.

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Kissakireply
feddit.org

Does that include your country being invaded? Does “a pointless war driven by maniac idiots” include defense from invasion?

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feddit.org

I always thought Italy is full of nationalists

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edinbruhreply
feddit.it

You see, Italians hate their country, but at the same time think it's the best country (right until they need to do some bureaucracy, then it's the worst).

So they nationalisticaly defend it with words against other countries, but they wouldn't actually put skin in the game.

Source: you can see my instance ends with .it

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If you aren't sarcastic, .it is Italy national domain (short for Italy, ofc)

3

Which age are they?

Because a lot of people love war and nationalist bullshit, when it is other people doing the fighting for them

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feddit.org

Instance Name checks out.

I wouldn't really call "trying to evade being oppressed by Russia" fighting for us interests.

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Fifrokreply
discuss.tchncs.de

Quick! Tell me what's your opinion on the Russian annexiation of Chechnya or I'm going to shit and piss your pants.

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Fifrokreply
discuss.tchncs.de

I somehow doubt you would do any direct action, much less murder of working class enemies. But if you do, well that's good, what other direct action do you participate in? I donate to my local food-not-bombs, when I can afford to.

1

As SOD says: "Why do they only send the poor?" Send politicians, high rank officials, billionaires and celebrities to the front for a change. I spent my time in the army. But I wouldn't fight for any country these days...

Actually send no one. War is a stupid game played by stupid people to make stupid money...

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