Cheap proton batteries compete with lithium on energy density
cross-posted from: https://sopuli.xyz/post/1726805
RMIT engineers say they've tripled the energy density of cheap, rechargeable, recyclable proton flow batteries, which can now challenge commercially available lithium-ion batteries for capacity with a specific energy density of 245 Wh/kg.
This is such a puzzle, thank you. :)
I checked Sci-Hub - no matches for "proton battery", neither for "hydrogen flow battery".
Falling back on chemistry - I recalled that "dissolving a concentrated acid in water should be done with care". It is exothermic, water may suddenly boil and splash acid all over the careless chemist.
By definition, acids are substances that can easily give protons (hydrogen ions) to other chemicals. A classic reaction would be acid + base = salt + water (acid gives the H and base gives the OH, so we get H2O), the other components of the acid and base form the salt.
If there is only water on the other side, I thought "the reaction is acid giving protons to water". Which acid? How many protons? Those questions might determine the amount of power available. And of course - how to control the reaction and extract electrical power? Browsing Wikipedia, I came across two pages: protonation and deprotonation and a sample reaction with sulphuric acid, but found no reference to electricity production, though potential / voltage is obviously available when ions are being created and transfered.
Then, finally I found the RMIT press release, and understood that acid is not a central participant of this reaction:
https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/all-news/2018/mar/all-power-to-the-proton
Some pickings:
There is a photo of the three scientists with a cell and multimeter, and the meter reads 1.1559 volts, so we know the cell voltage is low, but not impractically low. A link to a scientific article and a description of the cell follows:
"Technical feasibility of a proton battery with an activated carbon electrode"
(this implies that overcharging results in hydrogen formation, like in lead acid batteries - the solution is to have it vented typically)
(this leads to the question of oxygen availability on the other side, and how to ensure it's adequate - gases are a nuisance due to their low density, but water can dissolve only so much oxygen, and this could limit the power output or storage capacity of the cell, however, if one built a flow battery, a redundantly large mass of water could be used to supply oxygen - but I'd really like to know if they used gaseous or dissolved oxygen)
A summary of the scientific paper:
So, the acid was not a reaction participant, but a proton conductor.
If anyone has a copy of the paper, please share - it seems like it would be interesting. :)
DUDE Thank you!
This was super interesting to read.
Really gives me extra hope that this isn't another vaporware battery technology.
Perhaps the end of excessive lithium mining is in sight!
I'll take it with a grain of salt:
What's the reactions? Proton battery sounds like a media-friendly name for a hydrogen fuel cell?
Is it a H fuel cell?
According to the source, it's different in that it stores the hydrogen before it combines to H2, reducing energy waste to the point that it's feasible to treat it as rechargeable instead of single-use. Lithium equivalent instead of alkaline.
https://newatlas.com/energy/rmit-proton-battery-energy-density/
It seems to be a hydrogen fuel cell with an integrated hydrogen atom store made of carbon, capable of absorbing 1% of its own weight in hydrogen.
This seems a little, but a mass unit of hydrogen contains a lot of molecules, so a lot of chemical energy (it is the lightest element after all). For example, 1 kilogram of hydrogen is 12 cubic meters at room temperature, so 1 gram is 12 liters - enough to do a lot of work, if reacted right.
https://newatlas.com/energy/rmit-proton-battery-energy-density/
Proton battery is in reference to hydrogen having a single proton, so proton battery.
I would love to see a breakdown of the chemistry behind this technology
Here's the real source
https://newatlas.com/energy/rmit-proton-battery-energy-density/
Thank you, the drawing is especially helpful. And apparently, the guys are running little fans off their prototype.
Is there a ELI5?
Electricity flows when there is a voltage difference, ie a more positive side and a more negative side that wants to equal itself out.
This battery uses protons (positive charge) to make a voltage difference.
When the protons flow from one side to the other, electricity is generated.
That's the best I can do I'm afraid.
I'll try too.
Water can be split with electricity into hydrogen and oxygen atoms, which quickly combine into hydrogen and oxygen gas molecules.
This battery stores energy by using an acid environment to preserve the hydrogen atoms as single and electrically charged ions (weakly combining them with opposite-charge ions from an acid) and uses voltage to attract them into a carbon storage medium, where they de-ionize with the help of electrons from a wire and get deposited in porous carbon as single hydrogen atoms.
Meanwhile, oxygen is formed on the other electrode, far across a membrane. The oxygen cannot come across the membrane and combine with the hydrogen or carbon. Oxygen atoms react among themselves and form oxygen gas molecules.
When time comes to discharge, voltage across the terminals is removed and a load with resistance is installed. Hydrogen atoms stored in carbon give away their electrons, which flow across the wire (peforming work at the load) and ionize oxygen atoms on the other side. This creates a voltage gradient which attracts hydrogen ions to leave the carbon substrate and travel across the medium (acid conductor and membrane) to join with the oxygen ions and form water.