I can corroborate this as well firsthand. Shit had its amazing highs but set me back years and nearly tore apart everything in the process. It's just not worth it
Yeah, I don't understand what they're getting out of it. Here's my pros/cons list:
Pros:
trust?
Cons:
if you break up, they can screw you
if there's a data breach, you can get screwed
they accidentally leave their phone unlocked
send phone for repair and the tech sees the video
they accidentally send it to someone else, mistaking it for another
That doesn't seem very balanced to me... Instead of mutually assured destruction (assuming this is reciprocated), just be a good BF/GF? Why isn't that enough?
I think it's honestly just a test and the person does actually believe those things but is saying it as a "joke" to see how far they can push it with their new partner. So the biggest pro would be "did I find someone equally as racist and shitty as me and if so, score", I guess?
Sure, but this is also a weird miscommunication. Why do this crazy trust exercise when you can instead have honest conversations? This sounds like the relationship is going to be based on proving yourself to the other instead of genuinely getting to know them.
If I received this, I'd show them me deleting it from all my devices and ask them to never do anything like that again, because you never know what could be exposed in a breach. I'd also tell them if any of that was genuine, we would need to end the relationship.
Yup. I don't want blackmail on them, and I don't want them to have blackmail on me, because if the relationship goes south, one of us (or both!) will resort to the nuclear option.
Protect yourself and build a relationship based on respect. Trust is earned, not ransomed.
Idk, I have shit (emails and texts) that could be considered blackmail on my ex wife of 15 years (not legal but would trash her relationship with her family which for all our faults she values and depends on as much as anything in life) and I would never open that can of worms. I also have video sent to me that would cost my current girlfriend (she shared them) massive headaches and likely thousands in lawyer fees and support. I can’t imagine a scenario where I would leverage it for anything. I value that my ex and current GF know they can trust me, entirely, without consequence. Relationships are hard and things don’t always become or remain what one would like but I can’t imagine purposefully hurting someone like that. My ex wife and I can’t stand each other but theirs comfort in knowing we can trust each other. I wouldn’t go to her funeral but I’d help her bury a body and I know she feels the same.
First, 100% a red flag. Even if they wanted to give some sort of "I trust you with my life" sort of video, there's a bunch of better ways to do it. Going for a racist rant makes me think that they're a racist.
Secondly, this is deeply submissive - they're giving you the power to ruin their life. If you want to do that sort of stuff as a couple you should really talk about it first and be on board with receiving that sort of power and responsibility. Entirely possible+reasonable for the receiver to find this shitty because they don't want to make a choice like this, especially if these are truly held beliefs.
The healthy response to this is to send them to a therapist. And definitely dump them if they're actually racist.
I can (and have, many times) dropped a hard-r for comedic effect, even around my black friends, as they have the context to know that I'm not actually the kind of person to use that word normally
If I was recorded and shared to the internet doing so free of context, I would be labelled as a racist shithead immediately and forever
That's how I read it, yes. But we obviously don't have enough context to say whether the GF is actually racist or just pretending to be as a crazy trust exercise. I'm taking it as a crazy trust exercise because that's the only way this could fit any definition of "romantic."
I think taking any random problem and putting blame on a group of people would be racist. I could spruce it up with the term “nipper” or “kike” and most people would find it racist
I suppose you just don’t find anything racist if you can’t come up with it
I have a fleeting suspicion that this girl now thinks, because of her own action, she can do this to you now as well.
OP, be careful what you share with her because ruining someones life is an option in her book...
Nah, if it was real they're either fucked in the head about romance or feeling them out with deniability. Just a red flag in superposition between different warnings.
Plus you'll note there isn't anything in there about not believing what she said. Just the nonsense about trust.
They say never stick your dick in crazy, but from my experience, that's where the best stuff is, but you gotta know, there's a shelf life to flirting with insanity, you gotta know when to get out, or else you're just in for life changing pain. This sounds a bit outside comfort levels for me, and I'd be looking for the out door.
Still, the one thing worse than sticking your dick in crazy is almost sticking your dick in crazy, so that the negative effect were still there, but you wouldn't have fun memories at lonely evenings.
Bright, shining, blinking, scrolling, red LED-illuminated flags m'dude.
She needs some therapy on boundaries and impulse control by the sound of it. Then again I'm going off a 5 second read and not a lifetime of experience so I am conceding that I do not know anything for certain.
I would say 'hey, out of respect for you I am deleting this video, thanks for the gift, please get me a gift card to XYZ next time'. But yeah, first time? Give her the pass. If it happens again, GTFO.
Damn, remind me not to partner with you in a trust fall.
Like this has "here is a staged video of me as a proof/test of trust" and not "here is actual proof I'm a racist" because there would have been OTHER proof, racists aren't that sneaky.
Your first reaction is "finally I have a chance to ruin this girl I love's life and go FULL SCORCHED EARTH"
Fuck man, you've got to dial up your chill at least a skosh!
What is it about being a racist that makes you unable to be sneaky? There are smart racists and there are dumb racists. There are all kinds of racists.
Sounds romantically intended with some really fucked up and distorted ideas mixed in. I'll take as given that she doesn't actually hold any of the racism she expressed as sincere beliefs. Part of you twigged that though she seemed to be trying to be nice in a really weird way, something seemed off and it is a bit off. If you imagine she mailed you a knife and a key to her house and said now you have the power to attack me and I'm vulnerable you'd probably see much more clearly and obviously how unromantic and off-putting and psychotic that is despite following a very similar logic.
In both these scenarios she's putting her life in your hands to demonstrate trust, but there's an implicit suggestion there that you would or could ever do something like that and only don't because of your undying devotion. There's a kind of twisted view of humanity there that that ruining someone's life on purpose with kompromat is something people generally do to one another but for the power love to zovercome it. It's sort of a red flag that she might think that way but really you know her better than any of us and also whether you think she's good for you. That she decided this would be a good idea and a nice birthday gift is disturbing enough that it's probably worth bringing up though. I think if it was me I'd probably express appreciation for the sentiment but also delete the video and tell them I had done so. Unfortunately you could never prove that you have deleted it so her messed up little game will always work in the manner that she intended but the extent to which this is something to worry about long term is something you can evaluate from her reaction to this news and your explanation of why it didn't feel right. Sometimes people do dumb shit, especially when they think they've spotted an opportunity for comedy and can't see their actions in a different light until after they've done the stupid thing. There's a chance here for this stupid thing to be a memory between just the two of you that neither of you has to worry about again so long as you point out that it wasn't as romantic as she thought it was and also delete whatever email or communication was used to send the video plus the video itself. If she's able to feel a bit embarrassed and move on you're probably fine, if she digs in and gets offended and tries to play similar fucked up games, then you might want to consider getting out before things escalate.
I think the crux of it will be, would she respect OP's refusal to have that kind of power over her, and would she expect some sort of reciprocal act for some MAD outcome.
I'd wonder where she got ideas like that and find out if it's an integral part of her life.
Personally, I’d delete it in case relationship took a turn for the worse. I wouldn’t want to be tempted to ruin someone’s life out of jealousy or a broken heart.
I see both sides. As off-putting as it is, the intent of showing complete trust and vulnerability should not be overlooked. Maybe just ask them to dial it back to a less offensive method of demonstration.
Maybe I've just watched too many rom-coms, but is it so unrealistic that she may have been hoping he would reciprocate her twisted romantic gesture by deleting the video in front of her?
I think a bot is Karma farming by asking stupid questions. "Should I hit myself in the nuts with a mallet? Is sulphuric acid safe to drink? Should < horrible red flag behavior in a partner > be a cause for concern?"
How interesting. I had a similar red flag with my asshole brother the day he said that he yelled the N-word in his car when he was alone because it was "transgressive" to do that. By the way, he said this to his family and hundreds of friends in public on Facebook.
Going to take my mom down to see him in Atlanta next week. It will be the first time I will see him in 10 years and probably the last until my mom's funeral, if he bothers to show up. Thank god I don't have to stay at his house.
It's illegal to say things in the US too, buddy. The fact that you guys let people endorse slavery and idolize the confederacy, is more of a you problem.
Those problems are deeper than a freedom of speech, and controlling that speech won't and has not fixed the problems that cause them. It's better to keep the openness of expression and tackle the systemic causes of racism and hatred, not try and hide them and let them fester.
The problem with drawing lines is that lines can then be moved. The most obvious gets censored first, then the next, and at some point people can't talk about anything because it is offensive to someone in power. Who decides what is and isn't censorable? If the counter to vile speech is its opposing view treated also openly, hate and violence won't grow under a censorship. Again, it's not the freedom of speech that creates these problems, but other issues in society that make hating others attractive. Ignorance and segregation and pitting one group against another for power purposes.
The argument is flawed. As the vile rhetoric out in the open, normalizes it. This in turn causes it to be used more, snowballing out of control. It deserves to be in the shadows.. skulking.. it belongs there.. it will never go away.
Countering speech with more speech, might work in an honest conversation, but when one side blatantly lies and has no shame.. when we are in a post truth situation.. with alternative facts and NO consequences... while the billionaire class hold the reighns to all the media you consume...
The speech with more speech will not work.
Next to that.. saying Nazi shit and a plethora of other things deserve a punch in the mouth.. the US should have a law that anyone calling a black person the N word can be punched in the mouth by said black person or a designated representative.. that would be a just law.
What about the other part of their argument though? Do you really think censorship powers can be withheld from those who are eager to abuse them? If the incoming government in the US was constitutionally able to be sanctioning vigilante violence against racist speech, I'm pretty sure one of the first things they would do with that is to classify people protesting the Palestinian genocide as being valid targets, under the logic that criticizing Israel is racist, for example.
Even if it was true that censorship is a more effective way to control toxic rhetoric than honest discourse, it would still be the case that it is an incredibly dangerous weapon. If we can't ensure that untrustworthy malevolent people never get the power to use it, there's no way it does more good than harm.
Unfortunately you're right that in a system where true dialogue can't exist to make bad arguments die appropriately this doesn't work well or at all. However neither does a censorship ideology since that can be manipulated, being my point that drawing lines results in new lines further. Given the Catch-22, I'd rather be open than allow someone control who can say what.
Don't you think rather than the problem being anyone being able to say racist or hateful things, maybe the problem is too many other people are fine with such things when they're said? That's why I said it's deeper than just the 1st Amendment.
Slavery and racism is not a America only problem. We are just very loud and proud about it. (Not me personally, but I ain't blind to history and the people in my country).
Sure, but it's an example that's specific to the US. You can't go around in Germany praising Hitler and endorsing genocide, so why can you praise Lee and endorse genocide in the US?
Sounds like neither country has it exactly right. Allowing freedoms, even to assholes, is important. Not tolerating intolerance is also important. Hard one to balance.
I live in the UK, where I know there is also some illegal speech except in Hyde Park Corner. I still think things should be different and the government shouldn't be penalising anyone for things they say. Things they do are a different matter, but banning some speech leads to oppressive regimes.
It isn't that you can't say things, just certain parts of "the message" are illegal. You can't deny the holocaust for example or call to sterilize immigrants
It's illegal to say you have a bomb at an airport and often to just generally seriously threaten people. Should that be covered under freedom of speech?
It's a huge waste of time and resources and mass panic while everyone searches for this bomb that doesn't exist, and if you want to sneak in a real bomb, it's super easy to do if you just have 6 other people claim fake bombs first. It's not illegal right?
The two should have different consequences. Maybe look at it like the joking statement of having a bomb in certain places isn't illegal itself, but causing extra concern and panic requiring actions to ensure there isn't a threat has its own penalties. The intent of what you say or do is very important. Shouting fire in a crowded area when there isn't a fire is another example of the misuse of the freedom that could cause harm to others.
The original source of the "fire in a theater" example comes from a court case where a defendant was charged with passing out flyers opposing the draft into the first World War. The case was later overturned because it was not analogous to causing immediate panic or lawless action like a riot. I do wonder how social media's ability to directly influence people into action holds up to this ruling. As an example, one can post an opinion or call to action for something and be covered under the 1st, but imagine a streamer in real time inciting people to riot. Where's the line? Maybe it falls under what I said at the top, it's determined by the consequences and not by some perceived "future crime" that it could cause.
Germany passed a number of laws in the wake of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. The idea being that if such speech was banned, it could prevent the next one from getting a foothold. It definitely sounds like this is what they're referring to
Sounds like a red flag with a white circle and a black symbol within. But also romantic. They're not mutually exclusive.
As some say, romance is death...
She's probably great in bed. The crazy ones always are.
To all you younglings out there reading this, crazy chicks are fun but they will ruin your life.
Never stick your dick in crazy.
Truth. There's often no safe exit strategy either. Once the deed is done, you are in grave danger.
Don't be a fool, use your tool
To all you bi/gay/etc younglings out there, never get stuck with crazy dick.
I can corroborate this as well firsthand. Shit had its amazing highs but set me back years and nearly tore apart everything in the process. It's just not worth it
Vasectomies can help. But be prepared to move, change your number, and switch jobs.
Absolutely. Remember this: crazy chicks are fun.
FTFY
You mean the ancient far eastern peace symbol? So romantic.
The Windmill of Friendship also boosts love!
Yes, but maybe rotated 45 degrees for no reason.
RED FLAG.
No sane person does things like that.
Absolutely insane.
Just get a tattoo of their name like the rest of us.
Preferably a face tattoo
But with a cross and a white circle within 😘
Yeah. Who would trust to give someone else video evidence that could be used to ruin their entire life? That's crazy.
Yeah, I don't understand what they're getting out of it. Here's my pros/cons list:
Pros:
Cons:
That doesn't seem very balanced to me... Instead of mutually assured destruction (assuming this is reciprocated), just be a good BF/GF? Why isn't that enough?
I think it's honestly just a test and the person does actually believe those things but is saying it as a "joke" to see how far they can push it with their new partner. So the biggest pro would be "did I find someone equally as racist and shitty as me and if so, score", I guess?
That being said, it's a huge red flag and you don't need a repeat occurrence to end the relationship.
Sure, but this is also a weird miscommunication. Why do this crazy trust exercise when you can instead have honest conversations? This sounds like the relationship is going to be based on proving yourself to the other instead of genuinely getting to know them.
If I received this, I'd show them me deleting it from all my devices and ask them to never do anything like that again, because you never know what could be exposed in a breach. I'd also tell them if any of that was genuine, we would need to end the relationship.
.....and then recover the deleted file.
A red flag.
Sharing dangerous ideas with somebody to show that you think they are safe is an honest signal of trust, but only if the dangerous ideas are genuine.
Someone who attempts to buy trust disingenuously is not to be trusted.
Someone who thinks in terms of kompromat and manipulation is dangerous to be around.
This is kinda unhinged in my opinion.
But then again, I grew up before social media, maybe this is the ultimate proof of love now? I don't know.
Anyway, putting herself completely at your mercy is not a good start into a healthy, mutually respectful relationship.
Either unhinged or brain rotted from a steady diet of Tiktok videos. Or both.
Ya, maybe this isn't her first time either...
Yup. I don't want blackmail on them, and I don't want them to have blackmail on me, because if the relationship goes south, one of us (or both!) will resort to the nuclear option.
Protect yourself and build a relationship based on respect. Trust is earned, not ransomed.
Idk, I have shit (emails and texts) that could be considered blackmail on my ex wife of 15 years (not legal but would trash her relationship with her family which for all our faults she values and depends on as much as anything in life) and I would never open that can of worms. I also have video sent to me that would cost my current girlfriend (she shared them) massive headaches and likely thousands in lawyer fees and support. I can’t imagine a scenario where I would leverage it for anything. I value that my ex and current GF know they can trust me, entirely, without consequence. Relationships are hard and things don’t always become or remain what one would like but I can’t imagine purposefully hurting someone like that. My ex wife and I can’t stand each other but theirs comfort in knowing we can trust each other. I wouldn’t go to her funeral but I’d help her bury a body and I know she feels the same.
First, 100% a red flag. Even if they wanted to give some sort of "I trust you with my life" sort of video, there's a bunch of better ways to do it. Going for a racist rant makes me think that they're a racist.
Secondly, this is deeply submissive - they're giving you the power to ruin their life. If you want to do that sort of stuff as a couple you should really talk about it first and be on board with receiving that sort of power and responsibility. Entirely possible+reasonable for the receiver to find this shitty because they don't want to make a choice like this, especially if these are truly held beliefs.
The healthy response to this is to send them to a therapist. And definitely dump them if they're actually racist.
I don't see how someone could do a racist rant and not be racist. That it is a rant is an important word here.
Have you never heard of acting?
Where's the leverage if it's a performance?
I can (and have, many times) dropped a hard-r for comedic effect, even around my black friends, as they have the context to know that I'm not actually the kind of person to use that word normally
If I was recorded and shared to the internet doing so free of context, I would be labelled as a racist shithead immediately and forever
Is that the situation here? It is not.
Everyone wanting to give the benefit of the doubt here gives racists room to exist.
You asked, I answered
Don't like the answers, don't ask the questions
At least we've established that you enable racists.
That's how I read it, yes. But we obviously don't have enough context to say whether the GF is actually racist or just pretending to be as a crazy trust exercise. I'm taking it as a crazy trust exercise because that's the only way this could fit any definition of "romantic."
I bet if you tried hard enough you could come up with one
Ok. What's yours?
I think taking any random problem and putting blame on a group of people would be racist. I could spruce it up with the term “nipper” or “kike” and most people would find it racist
I suppose you just don’t find anything racist if you can’t come up with it
I am arguing the exact opposite.
You’re saying a non-racist person couldn’t say anything racist
The only way to argue that is if they don’t know what is racist
Not even if you were an actor?
Subby racist? She clearly wants the colored dick "forced" on her
I have a fleeting suspicion that this girl now thinks, because of her own action, she can do this to you now as well. OP, be careful what you share with her because ruining someones life is an option in her book...
She is treating the relationship and trust as transactional. No bueno.
Red flag. Bad opsec. I wouldn't trust someone who trusts me.
My spouse and I have been married 15 years and I still don't share my GPG passphrase. Whoever says "you can't have secrets" is weird and controlling.
The question that leaps to my mind is why would that idea have occurred to her in the first place?
Sounds like she is making a "joke" in poor taste while also fishing for your take on the things she is joking about.
or perhaps it's something sexual. Power imbalance Idk.
ITT: Everyone taking a shitpost from reddit posted to [email protected] seriously
Also: both romantic and a red flag
Nah, if it was real they're either fucked in the head about romance or feeling them out with deniability. Just a red flag in superposition between different warnings.
Plus you'll note there isn't anything in there about not believing what she said. Just the nonsense about trust.
They say never stick your dick in crazy, but from my experience, that's where the best stuff is, but you gotta know, there's a shelf life to flirting with insanity, you gotta know when to get out, or else you're just in for life changing pain. This sounds a bit outside comfort levels for me, and I'd be looking for the out door.
She literally gave it to him
It's good, but almost never worth it. With some of them, most of them actually, there's no safe path out.
Still, the one thing worse than sticking your dick in crazy is almost sticking your dick in crazy, so that the negative effect were still there, but you wouldn't have fun memories at lonely evenings.
Bright, shining, blinking, scrolling, red LED-illuminated flags m'dude.
She needs some therapy on boundaries and impulse control by the sound of it. Then again I'm going off a 5 second read and not a lifetime of experience so I am conceding that I do not know anything for certain.
I would say 'hey, out of respect for you I am deleting this video, thanks for the gift, please get me a gift card to XYZ next time'. But yeah, first time? Give her the pass. If it happens again, GTFO.
She probably just has a blackmail fetish.
Sounds like a scene from Get Out lol.
Relationships are no jokes. Neither is racism. Depending on how I feel about her, the video might leak. I would certainly not stay.
Big red flag to me.
Edit: I have broadened my mind. I had not considdered receiving such a video from somebody whom of I am certain has no racist mind at all.
In that case I would reciprocate by deleting the footage.
That’s a little much. Such poor taste she deserves a criminal record?
Leaving works though for sure. Can do the favor of explaining why too.
Damn, remind me not to partner with you in a trust fall.
Like this has "here is a staged video of me as a proof/test of trust" and not "here is actual proof I'm a racist" because there would have been OTHER proof, racists aren't that sneaky.
Your first reaction is "finally I have a chance to ruin this girl I love's life and go FULL SCORCHED EARTH"
Fuck man, you've got to dial up your chill at least a skosh!
What is it about being a racist that makes you unable to be sneaky? There are smart racists and there are dumb racists. There are all kinds of racists.
Seriously? That's your take?
Maybe she's secretly hoping he'll use it to sexually blackmail her. That is a kink some people have.
Why is this posted in the funny community?
A tradition alive since time began on Reddit. Nothing funny can be posted on the funny community.
The poster says it’s funny
I feel like communities revolving around funny things, memes, shitposts are just there because the post/image wouldn't go anywhere else.
Chinese military parade.
More like Kim Jong-Un's birthday parade.
Have confidence in the credibility of what she is expressing in those videos.
Sounds romantically intended with some really fucked up and distorted ideas mixed in. I'll take as given that she doesn't actually hold any of the racism she expressed as sincere beliefs. Part of you twigged that though she seemed to be trying to be nice in a really weird way, something seemed off and it is a bit off. If you imagine she mailed you a knife and a key to her house and said now you have the power to attack me and I'm vulnerable you'd probably see much more clearly and obviously how unromantic and off-putting and psychotic that is despite following a very similar logic.
In both these scenarios she's putting her life in your hands to demonstrate trust, but there's an implicit suggestion there that you would or could ever do something like that and only don't because of your undying devotion. There's a kind of twisted view of humanity there that that ruining someone's life on purpose with kompromat is something people generally do to one another but for the power love to zovercome it. It's sort of a red flag that she might think that way but really you know her better than any of us and also whether you think she's good for you. That she decided this would be a good idea and a nice birthday gift is disturbing enough that it's probably worth bringing up though. I think if it was me I'd probably express appreciation for the sentiment but also delete the video and tell them I had done so. Unfortunately you could never prove that you have deleted it so her messed up little game will always work in the manner that she intended but the extent to which this is something to worry about long term is something you can evaluate from her reaction to this news and your explanation of why it didn't feel right. Sometimes people do dumb shit, especially when they think they've spotted an opportunity for comedy and can't see their actions in a different light until after they've done the stupid thing. There's a chance here for this stupid thing to be a memory between just the two of you that neither of you has to worry about again so long as you point out that it wasn't as romantic as she thought it was and also delete whatever email or communication was used to send the video plus the video itself. If she's able to feel a bit embarrassed and move on you're probably fine, if she digs in and gets offended and tries to play similar fucked up games, then you might want to consider getting out before things escalate.
I think the crux of it will be, would she respect OP's refusal to have that kind of power over her, and would she expect some sort of reciprocal act for some MAD outcome.
I'd wonder where she got ideas like that and find out if it's an integral part of her life.
Personally, I’d delete it in case relationship took a turn for the worse. I wouldn’t want to be tempted to ruin someone’s life out of jealousy or a broken heart.
I see both sides. As off-putting as it is, the intent of showing complete trust and vulnerability should not be overlooked. Maybe just ask them to dial it back to a less offensive method of demonstration.
Maybe I've just watched too many rom-coms, but is it so unrealistic that she may have been hoping he would reciprocate her twisted romantic gesture by deleting the video in front of her?
I think a bot is Karma farming by asking stupid questions. "Should I hit myself in the nuts with a mallet? Is sulphuric acid safe to drink? Should < horrible red flag behavior in a partner > be a cause for concern?"
Cut off all communication with this girl, now!
It's a twisted romantic gesture. I like it. Being partners in crime strengthens the bond between two people.
Yeah but why racism? She could say something illegal like "I plan on killing (person's name"
I think the comment that says she is fishing for whether he is racist too is on the right track.
Absolutely red flag.
Definitely just put one of my eyebrows through the ceiling.
Wait for another hack on a cloud service then put it online and claim ignorance.
ummmm....
How interesting. I had a similar red flag with my asshole brother the day he said that he yelled the N-word in his car when he was alone because it was "transgressive" to do that. By the way, he said this to his family and hundreds of friends in public on Facebook.
Going to take my mom down to see him in Atlanta next week. It will be the first time I will see him in 10 years and probably the last until my mom's funeral, if he bothers to show up. Thank god I don't have to stay at his house.
AI is fishing for real human responses to further train on.
https://youtu.be/athAz1Z6AS0
In Germany it's actually illegal to just say some things? Freedom of speech really needs better protection.
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
It's illegal to say things in the US too, buddy. The fact that you guys let people endorse slavery and idolize the confederacy, is more of a you problem.
Those problems are deeper than a freedom of speech, and controlling that speech won't and has not fixed the problems that cause them. It's better to keep the openness of expression and tackle the systemic causes of racism and hatred, not try and hide them and let them fester.
Why not both tackle the systemic issues while not allowing people to poison everything with their vile rhetoric.
Out and about Nazis emboldened to do their thing is not a good thing.
The problem with drawing lines is that lines can then be moved. The most obvious gets censored first, then the next, and at some point people can't talk about anything because it is offensive to someone in power. Who decides what is and isn't censorable? If the counter to vile speech is its opposing view treated also openly, hate and violence won't grow under a censorship. Again, it's not the freedom of speech that creates these problems, but other issues in society that make hating others attractive. Ignorance and segregation and pitting one group against another for power purposes.
so you’re saying it’s a slippery slope?
because that’s not a good reason not to do something
The argument is flawed. As the vile rhetoric out in the open, normalizes it. This in turn causes it to be used more, snowballing out of control. It deserves to be in the shadows.. skulking.. it belongs there.. it will never go away.
Countering speech with more speech, might work in an honest conversation, but when one side blatantly lies and has no shame.. when we are in a post truth situation.. with alternative facts and NO consequences... while the billionaire class hold the reighns to all the media you consume...
The speech with more speech will not work.
Next to that.. saying Nazi shit and a plethora of other things deserve a punch in the mouth.. the US should have a law that anyone calling a black person the N word can be punched in the mouth by said black person or a designated representative.. that would be a just law.
What about the other part of their argument though? Do you really think censorship powers can be withheld from those who are eager to abuse them? If the incoming government in the US was constitutionally able to be sanctioning vigilante violence against racist speech, I'm pretty sure one of the first things they would do with that is to classify people protesting the Palestinian genocide as being valid targets, under the logic that criticizing Israel is racist, for example.
Even if it was true that censorship is a more effective way to control toxic rhetoric than honest discourse, it would still be the case that it is an incredibly dangerous weapon. If we can't ensure that untrustworthy malevolent people never get the power to use it, there's no way it does more good than harm.
Unfortunately you're right that in a system where true dialogue can't exist to make bad arguments die appropriately this doesn't work well or at all. However neither does a censorship ideology since that can be manipulated, being my point that drawing lines results in new lines further. Given the Catch-22, I'd rather be open than allow someone control who can say what.
Don't you think rather than the problem being anyone being able to say racist or hateful things, maybe the problem is too many other people are fine with such things when they're said? That's why I said it's deeper than just the 1st Amendment.
Holy shit! An actual sensible person in the wild!
Slavery and racism is not a America only problem. We are just very loud and proud about it. (Not me personally, but I ain't blind to history and the people in my country).
Sure, but it's an example that's specific to the US. You can't go around in Germany praising Hitler and endorsing genocide, so why can you praise Lee and endorse genocide in the US?
Sounds like neither country has it exactly right. Allowing freedoms, even to assholes, is important. Not tolerating intolerance is also important. Hard one to balance.
I live in the UK, where I know there is also some illegal speech except in Hyde Park Corner. I still think things should be different and the government shouldn't be penalising anyone for things they say. Things they do are a different matter, but banning some speech leads to oppressive regimes.
It isn't that you can't say things, just certain parts of "the message" are illegal. You can't deny the holocaust for example or call to sterilize immigrants
If you have trouble telling the difference between free speech and hate crimes, you're very much part of the problem.
It's illegal to say you have a bomb at an airport and often to just generally seriously threaten people. Should that be covered under freedom of speech?
It should be illegal to have a bomb, not to say you have a bomb. If you say you have one and you don't, that's annoying, but it shouldn't be illegal.
It's a huge waste of time and resources and mass panic while everyone searches for this bomb that doesn't exist, and if you want to sneak in a real bomb, it's super easy to do if you just have 6 other people claim fake bombs first. It's not illegal right?
The two should have different consequences. Maybe look at it like the joking statement of having a bomb in certain places isn't illegal itself, but causing extra concern and panic requiring actions to ensure there isn't a threat has its own penalties. The intent of what you say or do is very important. Shouting fire in a crowded area when there isn't a fire is another example of the misuse of the freedom that could cause harm to others.
The original source of the "fire in a theater" example comes from a court case where a defendant was charged with passing out flyers opposing the draft into the first World War. The case was later overturned because it was not analogous to causing immediate panic or lawless action like a riot. I do wonder how social media's ability to directly influence people into action holds up to this ruling. As an example, one can post an opinion or call to action for something and be covered under the 1st, but imagine a streamer in real time inciting people to riot. Where's the line? Maybe it falls under what I said at the top, it's determined by the consequences and not by some perceived "future crime" that it could cause.
Germany passed a number of laws in the wake of the Third Reich and the Holocaust. The idea being that if such speech was banned, it could prevent the next one from getting a foothold. It definitely sounds like this is what they're referring to