DNC Announces Plans to Learn Nothing from This
https://thehardtimes.net/culture/dnc-announces-plans-to-learn-nothing-from-this/Open linkView original on slrpnk.net1692
Comments434https://thehardtimes.net/culture/dnc-announces-plans-to-learn-nothing-from-this/Open linkView original on slrpnk.net
So angry this isn’t even satire.
I think it counts as satire, even if the headline is a completely true statement.
Colbert was satire when he just copied what Republicans were saying, with the obvious intentions of "Jesus Christ, do they even hear themselves?"
The Onion can be satire now, and when "No way to prevent this, says the only country where this happens on a regular basis."
seriously. they'll have a LOT more believable articles for the next few years.
The reality is even worse. They're going to "learn" all the wrong lessons. They will shift further to the right, like they always do.
Yep, every time Dems can't get enough votes from the left to win, because they aren't "left/pure enough" for them, what they learn is to shift to the right to find votes.
Whereas since voters on the right will always vote for the one with the R by their name even if they don't think the candidate is "right enough", their party learns that it doesn't have to move to the left to find enough votes and stays to the right or moves even further to the right.
The only way to win over conservatives is a full-throated embrace of fascism. Turns them out like crazy.
I don't think you understand their point. Republicans always turn out to vote for their candidate. Then they win (at least a good portion of the time) and they vote in primaries and move the party further right. For any evidence just look at the past 2 decades.
Whereas the left just decides to sit out and therefore Dems lose (or only win at odd times.) They can't count on leftist/apathetic voters, so they go towards where they think they can get votes (ie. people who always vote and if they do convert enough they are profiting by gaining one vote for them and removing one from Republicans.)
Now everyone here is saying it's soooo obvious that it's a poor strategy but is there any introspection on behalf of the left/apathetic? How has withholding your vote or not voting in primaries gone? It's been done for years and society has moved so, so far away from leftist goals no?
So their point is that it probably is a mix- surely the Dems need to actually run on popular policy and leftists/apathetic need to suck it up, vote in all elections, and vote for the best candidate. Pick your preferred candidate in the primary and then vote for the Democratic candidate in the general, no matter what (well- barring something egregious like...being anything like Trump.) Once Dems actually have power, you can keep pushing left. But if people just sit out, you're not gonna be counted. Decades of that is proof.
Edit- maybe you mean you can't win the center over with conservatism-lite. Maybe that's true, maybe not. But someone mentioned Bernie finished behind Harris in Vermont so I don't know that it's a maxim.
Ever wonder why that's the case?
Mindless sheep sycophant party that abuses the system to stay relivent VS super-diverse big tent party than "takes the high road" and it is still almost 50/50....tells you where the people actually stand and how badly the broken system empowers the shitty minority. Oh, before "huurrrrddduuuurrrrr but popular vote dduuurrrrrrr"...that is how many people of each ideology VOTED not how many there are. Glad I could clarify the obvious for you smooth brain twits that think you have a point.
The popular vote that trump won in addition to the electoral college? That popular vote? Democrats (the party apparatus) need to come to term with themselves and look in the mirror for answers as to why there’s a second trump term on the horizon.
Read, comprehend, then speak.
And can you blame them? Who do you think is more efficient catering to, the right-wing idiot who went to vote for a rapist felon or the self-proclaimed leftist that didn’t vote to stop fascism because they didn’t like the alternative enough?
These last elections were already “right vs far right”, following ones are 100% going to be even worse. When the right wins, shifting left makes no logical sense.
No of course I can't blame them because it's the only thing that makes sense to do. That's what I saying. I blame the people who won't vote for Dems if they don't perfectly align with everything they want or don't pass their purity test.
Magats took over the Republican party because they consistently voted for whichever R won the primary, even if it wasn't the one they wanted to win the primary. R's have always done this, but Magats especially have been turning out to do this since 2008 when gasp! the Black guy won (they started out as the Tea party). On top of that they did a lot of activism. Parading around with their guns was the part they liked best about that. They took a name for their movement; the TEA (taxed enough already) party was a stupid name and they looked like idiots with their teabags, but it worked for them and they eventually got their demagogue.
The Democratic party can be moved to the left with this same strategy. Vote for the more left-leaning or whoever you like best in the primary, then vote for whoever has the D by their name in the general. When they learn that they can actually count on getting enough votes from their base, they'll stop futilely chasing votes from the right. At the same time you have to do activism and keep the movement growing, which makes sure they clearly know what you want and creates pressure to influence their policies. You don't give up after one election cycle because it takes time and work..
Ceding your power by not voting doesn't make politicians care about you--it's not like boycotting a business that wants to sell you something. Politicians want to please those who vote for them, not those who don't. Learn from the magats. First you put the politicians closer to your views into power, then keep pressuring them to enact the policies you want. Not sit around and wait for them to enact the agenda you want first and after that you'll vote for them. Think about how training a dog works.
However, I've been doing this forever- and the Dems just keep moving further right.
I mean, you have but clearly a ton haven't. Witness the millions of missing votes this election.
You deserve kudos for this. Very well put.
At this point you might as well start a third party.
Some kind of Democratic Socialist Party of America maybe.
This way Gore can lose all over again!
Imagine thinking the DNC will ever push another Gore. If they were willing to do that we wouldn't be having this conversation.
You missed the point.
And this is one of the reasons why people shifted Republican in this last election.
If the Democratic party won't represent Democratic ideals, then out of either anger or apathy, their base will vote for the party that can do it better, Republicans, or not vote at all.
I agree with a lot of people on Lemmy that the average American is an idiot, and our shortening attention spans coupled with our changing media diets isn't helping with that, but I see these as features not bugs.
Americans in general like their shiny toys, and one of the best ways to capture their attention is by politicians giving concessions and offering things that will benefit their lives. Think carrots on sticks more than sticks themselves.
I will never stop hanging most of the blame on the Democratic party for leading us to today conclusion after Tuesday.
People didn't shift Republican in this election. Trump got about the same number of votes as he did against Biden.
no, but everyone wants to pretend that everyone became ultra-super racist idiot trump voters over the course of 4 years because they listened to a lot of joe rogan, rather than listening to a bunch of CNN like good little vote piggies. see one infographic of a bunch of red arrows everywhere and then everyone loses their fucking minds and decides that the only way to win the next election is to become more racist. if only they tack to the right harder, then they'll win, they just need to be more racist, see, and then it'll work!
and the problem is that this is exactly the lesson they want to learn. it's the lesson they have an interest in learning because they are also a right wing party. maybe it's because there's just gonna be more posters running around two days after the election because this is the top drama and it's eating up time they otherwise would've spent talking about celebrity drama or whatever, but we can talk for years about how the democrats, anywhere else, would be a center-right party of neoliberal warmongers that are fundamentally unwilling to give positive material concessions to basically any of their voters. as soon as the election gets called, that all vanishes, suddenly they've run the most perfect campaign of all time, and really, it was the voters that were at fault, and if anything, they should be more racist. it's not that the economy sucked, that they didn't present an enthusiastic, optimistic, or hell, coherent, vision of the future. no, it's because they just weren't racist enough.
it's 2016 all over again. the punishments will continue until morale improves, time is a flat circle, and I keep falling down the stairs.
do'h
Wait, you think the republicans represent democratic ideals better…?
They pretend better
There is no way to read or infer that from their comment without some serious preconceived notions. That person made a statement of fact. They did not say anything about their opinion on the goodness or badness of that statement of fact.
That’s where I’m getting that exact sentiment
And you'll be the bad guy for not wanting to vote for a right wing party.
The only ones that need to learn are the vile pieces of shit that chose to throw their vote away or not even vote. A politician doesnt give them all they want so they sacrifice the planet. Lowest of the low. Same kind of trash as maga
Which do you think is better? Dems giving people what they want to earn their vote or trump winning?
Dems cant give people what they want because everyone wants different things.
What do you think is better? Preventing fascism or doing nothing and watching a fascist get into power?
Medicare for all or universal healthcare is incredibly popular. Peace is also popular.
Spectacular example of avoiding the question but answering it with it. You want to watch the fascism
We know that Biden's/Harris' 2024 Campaign failed to produce enough turnout to win against Fascism. What could they have campaigned on to improve turnout? Universal healthcare is one of the many popular progressive policies, popular for both Democratic and Republican voters, that they could have ran on but decided not to.
How to Win a Swing Voter in Seven Days
“The View” Alternate Universe: Break From Biden in Interviews, Play the Hits in Ads
How Trump and Harris Voters See America’s Role in the World
Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college
Democrats should run on the popular progressive ideas, but not the unpopular ones
Here Are 7 ‘Left Wing’ Ideas (Almost) All Americans Can Get Behind
Finding common ground: 109 national policy proposals with bipartisan support
Progressive Policies Are Popular Policies
Tim Walz's Progressive Policies Popular With Republicans in Swing States
I think preventing fascism is better which is why I want a popular candidate because that's the best way to prevent fascism
Would you prefer they DID vote for Trump? I voted for Harris because she was the only real option but after what the DNC keeps doing (see: fucking Bernie in the primaries and then not even having a primary this year) I really can’t blame anyone for not voting. The Dems need to have their come to Jesus and remember that the people don’t owe them anything.
I dont make a difference whether they voted for Trump or not. They both picked fascism. Primaries dont mean shit especially if they already have a president a power. It was a mistake to have Biden run again but that doesnt excuse not voting for democracy
Oh c’mon, Kamala was pretty far from Jesus, and Trump and co. are no political masterminds. This was the dems race to lose and they brilliantly pulled it off by exhibiting what can only be described as an active disdain for anything that even smelled like progressive politics. Turns out you can’t win on “the other guy is worse.” They fucked up and lost fair and square.
Look, the Democrats are not good at running campaigns, but I will never let that obscure the fact that OVER 75 MILLION Americans were ready, willing, and able to vote for a proven rapist, convicted criminal, openly racist, riot-starting adult crybaby. Not grudgingly -- they went to the polls with a song in their hearts and blood in their eyes! The fucking Democrats didn't cause that -- 12 years of Fox News telling people that DJT was God, and four years of blaming COVID and inflation on desperate economic migrants did that.
Even IF the Democrats have enough of a base to overwhelm those +75m hateboner-stroking bigots, well they knew what's at stake and STILL stayed home. (No doubt smirking at how cleverly they avoided any moral contagion via the brilliant gambit of continuing to pay taxes but not casting a vote 🙄 .) Regardless of all that, I don't blame them for Trump's win either, because there shouldn't have been +75 million Trump-lovers to overwhelm in the first fucking place.
Yeah, but that's democracy. Those 75+ million people wanted something, and they voted for it, and they got it. Anything else is irrelevant. There's no asterisk in the Constitution with a footnote that says the election is invalid if one side consists of hateboner-stroking bigots. If Democrats want something different, then they have to convince enough people to show up and vote for something different. They have to get good at public messaging and at running campaigns. Righteous indignation changes nothing whatsoever.
Democrats would have benefitted greatly from reining in the corporate profiteering that happened from the pandemic onwards.
They needed to be the anti greed party or the wealth redistribution party or something. Something different, not more of the same.
It was hard to hear everytime they said "Actually, the economy is doing marvelous."
Democrats would have benefited greatly from telling the public that they were going to do anything at all about 30+y of neoliberal policy that benefits Wall St at the expense of the bottom 80%. This election (and every election since Obama left office) was a referendum on business as usual neoliberal policy at the working class's expense. You could get away with that in the 90s, but when the working class can't earn enough to rent their own apartment or start a life they'll vote for literally anything else, including a convicted rapist and con man.
What people miss about Fascism is that it actually does, at least in the short term, help working-class people. If Trump manages to actually deport 20 million illegal immigrants? That will, in the short term, actually lower the cost of rent. Longer term, you have to start having conversations about the supply of housing and the labor to build and maintain that housing. But in the short term, kicking 5-10% of the population out of the country will actually improve the budgets of millions of rent-burdened households. As long as you personally aren't on the right's current extermination list, you actually benefit from conservative crimes against humanity.
People are hurting. The amounts of people rent-burdened and accessing food banks are at levels not seen in generations. And the Democrats offered NOTHING of substance to help these people. Kamala offered grants to help cities amend their zoning codes...which might bear fruit 20 years from now. Kamala offered first-time homeowner assistance, but it was a neo-liberals wet dream of a policy, filled with provisos and qualifiers to make sure only just the most-deserving people qualify. She should have been out there campaigning for a huge social housing project - direct federal construction of millions of homes, coupled with a jobs-training program to quickly train thousands of new high school graduates how to be framers, carpenters, plumbers, and electricians.
She should have also come down like the wrath of god upon landlords. She was literally running against a slimy and corrupt landlord, yet she never once made that a center focus of her campaign. She should have been promising to lock up and throw away the key of any landlord, big or small, that used software like realpage. She shouldn't have had a stump speech where she didn't call for the complete breakup of Walmart and Amazon.
Those were things she actually could have done to tell people she was actually going to do something about just one issue, the cost of housing. But of course that didn't happen.
Her performance on The View was absolutely, hilariously, abysmal. They asked her something like "what would you have done differently from Biden to grow the economy?" and she replied with a canned "We're very proud of Bidenomics" and no further elaboration 🤷♂️
Like, yeah, sure, Bidenomics has been great for the top 20%, but what about everyone else who's had to move back in with their parents? She demonstrated absolutely zero understanding of the economic reality for 4/5 of the population.
But Trumpnisnt going to do any of this either.
He rambled at great length about making America great again and bringing back jobs and Kamala told folks that nothing will change. If you're struggling to understand why things went this way I'm not sure I can help.
At the very least Democrats probably should have told people they'd do something to help them instead of just assuming that people would intuit that over the long term Democrat economic policy would be more stable and provide better net growth.
People in the US are dumb as shit, you have to explain things to them and make them feel like you're paying attention. This is something Democrats have utterly failed to do reliably since Clinton 1 or Obama and it's why they lose elections. They're quite literally out of touch and don't realize it's not the 70s or 90s when blue collar workers would reliably back them because they'd (relatively recently) supported the labor movement and life was, overall, pretty good for everyone. You can't run on a policy of inclusion and civil rights for marginalized groups when the main voting group is struggling to make their own lives work.
Agreed, just a little left-wing populism would've gone a long way. I'm cynical, so I see it as that the Democrats can't be or do those things, because the need for campaign donations has turned them into a fundamentally neo-liberal party that stands for wealth and corporate greed. Like the GOP used to be, before it departed for Crazy Town in a lifted pickup truck.
See also: Joe Biden breaking the rail strike. (Before somebody points he followed up by getting some of the unions some of what they wanted, eroding union power generally was the headline news.) Can we imagine him nationalizing the rails and forcing the companies to strike a deal with the unions in exchange for using them? It would have been a stunning political sensation, but would've crossed Democrats' corporate benefactors.
finally somebody's fucking saying it. party of controlled opposition. everyone has liked to pretend since the 90's and even before that this generational streak of incompetence in policy time and time again is the product of some sort of infernal curse, some sort of streak of bad luck, some sort of unrelated descent of the american populace's IQ points that just naturally predisposes them towards fascism. it's not. it's an intentional befouling. they are fine with losing, it will not be them that suffers. what they're not fine with, is populist policy actually getting passed. you can even do the obama thing and then lie about it, and then just face the occupy protests later on and tell them all to fuck off. they are even too afraid of that, so entrenched in their own ideology are they. it's insane and ridiculous to believe that this is just due to some sort of incompetence. if it is, then it's structural in nature, needs to be pulled out by the root, and is probably not really reformable or recoverable at the highest levels, because we've had this problem even since the hundred year old jimmy carter in hospice was in office.
Tim Walz could have afforded the campaign this rhetoric.
But they locked my boy up to where he couldn't show his true colors.
Well of course the election was still valid. Brainwashed Fox News/X misinformation junkies' votes count just as much as a good person's does. More actually, thanks to the high concentration of fools in low-population states and with too many electoral votes. My issue is that a massive propaganda machine is permitted to exist, such that +75 million walking dildos are now convinced that Biden created greedflation and gave all their tax money to dog-eating immigrants, and Fauci should be executed for treason because he forced children to get vaxxed(?).
Dismantling that machine should be job #1 -- it should have been since Al Franken wrote Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot. But I guess it's fucking impossible to shut off the machine that keeps stamping out Republican and IINO voters. And with at least a hundred years of MAGA rule ahead of us, I suppose it always will be.
Yes, totally agreed, and I feel this discussion circling straight back to the OP point: Whose job is it to dismantle the machine, and counter the misinformation? It's us; there's no global referee that we can appeal to. How do we do it? Through the political process, because we don't want violence and civil war. Since the winner-take-all voting system mathematically leads to two parties, our agent in the political process is the Democratic Party.
So, it's not the DNC's fault that the misinformation machine exists, but it is their responsibility to fix it, and we can certainly blame them because they're really bad at it.
weren’t we as well vilifying anyone who criticised her stance on genocide and the brutal genocide in gaza rates much higher than anything you said about trump. add that to her history of being cosy with lobbyists, her controversial career as prosecutor and she will be the classic pro-war neocon we all hate. but majority of us still voted her in name of lesser evil.
in the same way i think a significant chunk of those 75 million think they are voting for lesser evil in name of god, increased crime and inflation.
plus the absolute cringe and elitist approach of dnc to label anyone not unconditionally supporting them as super racist sexist nazi.
even now every left sub on .world and reddit is making fun of working class by mocking egg prices and even wishing for trump to deport the muslims and nuke gaza.
Oh no. I can assure you they were very deliberately voting for the largest evil they could find.
sigh, if dnc sees this then they will try to hire you as campaign advisor.
this is exactly what the cronies of both parties want, for us to think that other side is pure evil so that they can continue exploiting us while doing all the evil they want.
does this look humane to you ? https://youtu.be/jRQGMJZKjAU
are we really the saint we pretend to be ?
That's exactly it. It's hard to admit that almost half the voting population is totally on board with trump--his "flaws" are not a bug, they're a feature. He increased the size of his base, bringing in millions of Latinos, Gen Z men, and men of all races. It's not that they simply hate the Dems, it's that they love what trump is offering. In spite of that it there did exist enough more voters that don't like trump (it would have taken 5 million more) to stop him, but they either didn't give a shit or they wanted it to happen (to "punish" the dems). That's the reality.
And now the Democrats will remain powerless forever. I guess single issue voters can take solace in that little victory. Sadly, they will probably not be replaced by a more progressive party rising up from their ashes, but rather by an emergent faction formed via Republican in-fighting. They will still be conservative, but they'll wear different colored ties.
So everything will be exactly the same as it is now except libs might be slightly less charitable to the new party?
Yes they well once the supreme court is stacked 7 to 2 they well never have the power to do anything even if elected.
The supreme court is already stacked! Biden could have added more justices and pushed for impeachment of the obviously corrupt ones. He chose to not even try or so much as get out the message that it needs to happen, so as to not appear "partisan", as if any of their voters actually care about partisanship at this point when it comes at the cost of getting shit done.
That's not new information. We learned that the first time Trump was elected. We learned it again when Biden was elected, even if Biden managed to narrowly outperform Trump. We've known what we were up against. Stop pearl clutching and acting surprised and start being more pragmatic. The Democrats are the one with a platform at the national level, it's on them to get out their vote and they utterly failed to do that.
And that is why the right always wins. The left are lazy and take the high ground and think themselves above it. And the right just does shit. And keeps at it till they get it.
those 75 million americans have done exactly the same shit they've been doing since like, the year 2000. or beyond. every guy the republicans have ever run has been some variety of racist, scam artist, rapist, or straight dumbass rich guy failson. the next election, if there is one, which there probably will be, they will do the same thing again. the election after that, and after that, and after that. it's not rocket science. it's the basic functioning of the system. to get mad at them is sort of like trying to piss into the wind in order to spite it. you just get piss all over yourself. either that, or you face the other direction and break the record in the meaningless pissing contest.
if you don't offer a material reality to people, a vision of the future, if you don't offer people anything, they will not come out to vote for you. kamala actually did worse, instead, she decided, hey, we'll campaign with liz cheney, we'll say that building the wall is a good idea, we'll say that we need to be tougher on immigration, have a more lethal military, continue the genocide that's currently going on, and then change nothing from biden's famously extremely unpopular administration other than appoint more conservatives to the cabinet in the name of being bipartisan. oh, and small business tax exemptions, and tax cuts for first time homebuyers that haven't missed a rent payment in the last 2,000 years. the only good thing she campaigned on was price controls for groceries, but then she dropped that like a hot potato as soon as she could.
really inspiring stuff. then, as always, every sensible person on the planet says, hey, this is maybe not a great idea, instead maybe we should've had a primary so they could've pushed through a candidate that didn't get less votes than ANDREW FUCKING YANG, noted bipartisan techbro-appealing dumbshit idiot, maybe we should campaign on medicare for all, funding for housing, free college, student debt relief, a stronger FTC, or perhaps she could've said hey, we'll pack the court, we'll reverse the roe v. wade decision, and then we'll try to codify roe v. wade and the million other legal decisions that we need to codify in order to guarantee american citizens some basic amount of rights. All of those would be incredibly popular decisions that would present a vision of the future.
she didn't do any of that, and then she lost, and then somehow the focus is on the people who voted, 2 million less from last time, for trump. it's insane shit.
Its not even the dems. Its the dnc. Who actually voted for biden or kamala as the person, of all democrats, to be the representative? The two party system has literally led to the death of America.
If it was just the fact of a two party system, why did it take over 200 years to do it?
Every system breaks down, given sufficient time
I protested in front of the DNC this year with the Palestinian supporters.
The DNC is definitely part of the problem. There are establishment Democrats there too that help decide who gets to run the big ticket. We saw it in 2016 between Hillary and Bernie.
Still, as a progressive, I believe the only path forward is to still work within the system we have else we risk fracturing and ceasing organization. We need to lead a new platform within the Democratic party, and that will be much harder given the sentiment Americans have of them as was shown in this year's election results.
2022 wasn't half bad though. So there's still hope.
the system is broken, and continuing to work within it will only lead to more losses. there is no salvaging the democratic party, it is fully co-opted by neoconservatives and billionaire donors who only care about fundraising off of losses. if there is a single lesson you should take from this dogshit election, it's that. they do not care about you, or your rights, or your life. they care about donations. their dedication is to the bag, first and foremost, above everything else.
Amen
This article is about and for you, fool.
Fair enough, I ate your onion 😄
In my defense, though, I've seen plenty of people make the exact same argument earnestly many times, especially in the last couple of days..
Which is crazy. In most countries, all parties are despised. In US, it is more like sports team.
We gotta, otherwise we'll see that one team openly hates the game, and the other team is still kicking around the ball and acting like moving 10 inches solves the game from falling apart.
This is amazing.
Holy fuck is this even satire anymore? I can literally see a GOP campaign official say that in private.
In private? I can see them saying it on TV and the rubes still voting for them since all they watch is Fox News and they'd never run it.
Trump won Michigan by doing the absolute bare minimum of pretending to care about the core issues Harris actively ignored (cough genocide).
And also paying probably like 50 bucks to spam send this image for two weeks.
This is an all-timer.
I literally see voters saying the Democrats were too left leaning, jfc.
With parties like this, painful collapse is the only way to avoid multigenerational destitution.
There is no saving the United States as a framework. It is far too compromised, with too many methods installed to keep the people willfully ignorant and infighting as the owners suck their life forces dry for profit.
We can limp along and pretend that isn't the case, but climate change, aka the reality that doesn't give a shit about our self-delusion and greed worship, will force that collapse sooner rather than later. Reality can't be bribed, deluded, disappeared, or discredited.
Enjoy living in delusion that a society can function in capitalist competition against itself, the ability to do so is coming to an end.
Local opinion piece:
https://www.startribune.com/brehm-democrats-have-themselves-to-blame-for-trumps-election/601176736
I read it because of the title, but it's just some shithead that wants them to move further right:
They are already creating the groundwork for sucking more corporate dick.
Oh they learned their lessons:
Have they tried committing multiple felonies ? Are they even watching and learning ?
They just vowed not to!
Vowed? Wow.
Oh they know how to win. They just don't want to. The policy decisions that would lock in Dem control for generations to come run counter to the goals of DNC Services Corp. Because they're a corp.
Theyre not the ones that need to learn. Voters need to learn DNC is a bunch of wealthy moderates grifting voters.
What if the DNC privately wins by making sure their candidate loses?
nah pelosi is crying her eyes out as she will have to pay less taxes on all those millions she earns from insider trading & lobbying for big tech.
its a win win for them.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/TY8ysOD2GWwAAAAd/crying-crying-meme.gif
They ran Harris thinking she would win based on her demographics. The DNC needs to learn that not everyone wants a black/LGBTQ/woman/etc candidate that just runs on their race/gender/sexuality.
They want someone that's competent that will campaign on policies that will make their lives better. The DNC has moved so far away from the working class that the RNC, the party of wealthy creeps, has them.
They ran Harris because she was the only candidate they could justify shoehorning in without a primary, since she's VP.
Why they didn't want to run a primary is a great question. Probably cost and time, and name recognition. Studies show that often the candidate with the most name recognition wins. There's wasn't enough time to tell every person in America a brand new person's name.
But usually VPs don't do well when they run as president. Imo Dems are just trying to avoid another Bernie Sanders situation - a leftist with an authentic campaign and people who genuinely like them. More than anything, they gotta stop real progress in this country.
100% this is why. They didn't want any internal pressure for progressive policies or a public platform to voice them.
They lost the general because they refused to hold a legitimate primary. This wouldn’t of happened. They haven’t run a real primary since 2008 and look at how hard Obama won in a landslide after competing in a deep field of qualified and competent candidates.
Even in 2008, it was obvious Clinton was the DNC's preferred candidate and DNC still had their thumb on the scale. Despite this, Obama still managed to come out ahead. And with a base that was actually excited about their chosen candidate, they turned out to vote and Obama won.
The only lesson the DNC learned from this is that they needed to push their thumb harder on the scales the next time around.
They learned two things: identity politics and weigh the scale down as hard as possible.
They obsessed over identity, to their long term detriment as some of the minority identities they fawned over are shifting their support towards trump.
They had no platform other than fear mongering about Trump.
The difference between Harris and Obama was that while Obama was biracial that wasn't the focus of his campaign, his platform was, and he articulated it well. That's the real lesson to take away from Obama's success at the polls not let's run a black person and hope we win.
Obama also competed against a deep field of qualified candidates in 2008. He went into the general with momentum of a popular mandate and then won in a landslide.
He would of done nearly as good if he was a white man.
On the flip side, when the republicans lost with Romney in 2012 they did a whole lot of soul searching (rather than blaming the electorate and moving closer to the center to court mythical ‘moderates’ which is the ongoing failed strategy of the democrats), and in 2016 they had an extremely competitive primary where trump came out on top with a mandate as popular with the base as Obama in 2008.
Looking back at 2016 I think Trump won exactly because he went for the middle: middle working class. I know we all thought he was going hard right (and he did appeal to them for certain reasons), but he campaigned to the middle class and won them.
That's bot the middle we're talking about. Trump ran on right policy (and "policy) both elections and won.
Do you meant that's not the middle?
That's what I thought for a long time. But when I look back at 2016 and I look at this one, I think he appealed to the center voter with promises of jobs and income. They liked that so much they keep saying/thinking/hoping that Trump won't do all the nutso right wing stuff he says he will. Go listen to voter interviews, they all say "nah he won't do mass deportation, it's all bluster.", or "He only means the criminals." It's unreal but that's what they think.
that's more accurate, yeah. definitely in 2016 he ran as a moderate, and with this more recent campaign, it's not so much that he ran a great campaign (lost 2 million voters), but more that I think he just had enough raw momentum and low information, working class voters wanted to manifest him into being the "make the economy good" guy, that they really didn't give a shit about whatever he was doing up in the news cycle. At the most, they can just dismiss that as something he's saying to get elected because "he's smart", or something he's doing to make the democrats mad, which is funny. beyond that, it doesn't matter so much for them what his specific platform is.
Oh yeah.
I mean everyone, no matter their political views, cares about jobs and income. Being left or right wing is more about the way you believe that should be achieved (and how much you hate minorities). Trump didn't appeal to center voters with promises of jobs and income; he appealed to right wing voters with their version of jobs and income and other policies right wing voters support. Obama promised left wing voters their version of jobs and income. Hillary and Harris promised nobody's version of jobs and income.
You know there is this big fat juicy, undecided, independent, center, whatever you want to call it, group that yes Trump did appeal to. You say, right wing version, left wing version, well those are eclipsed by the humongous center of the bell curve.
I don't think we're going to agree. I say center, you say right, I say center, you say right.
Primaries also benefit from the same effect that makes every movie and TV show a reboot: Name recognition. The long primary cycle keeps their name in the news so people get familiar with it so they're more likely to vote for them.
Normally I’d agree with you because you’re not wrong, but who at this point doesn’t know who trump or Harris are? And where can I find that rock they are hiding under so I can get some quiet time?
IKR I'd kill to not know who that asshole is
I can’t wait for trump to drop dead of natural causes only so I don’t have to hear his voice ever again
Bigly mood
They ran Harris because she was the only viable option when it was clear that Biden was not. They did not run Harris thinking she would win at all, they ran her out of desperation because the incumbent was flatlining. It was not a choice, and it certainly was not one based on demographics. It was a “Hail Mary” and it failed as it was likely to do from the outset, and everyone who was paying attention knew that, yet had no choice but to hope for the best.
lol, you believe this? I don’t find it hard to believe that they put Biden though a primary, just to have him drop out…
IMO running Harris was the plan from the beginning. You know, which was kind of the problem, hijacking the primary.
To use your own words, you believe that?
This was not a grand conspiracy geez. Biden's "primary" was perfunctory because we learned you never primary the incumbent. If he didn't perform badly at the debate he probably wouldn't have dropped out.
Do I believe that about four months ago the Democratic Party made a desperate move to replace the incumbent candidate and there were very few viable options at the time? Yes, I believe that, because we just went through it about four months ago. It’s pretty much political suicide to withdraw an incumbent candidate. You don’t plan that from the beginning, because that would be a stupid plan. It was very likely “planned” as in “plan B,” but it’s kind of idiotic to think that it was plan A. The primary was not hijacked, the incumbent is always the candidate. Primaries are always a formality for the incumbent party.
lol. And the DNC didn’t shill for Hilary Clinton in 2016 over Bernie Sanders
Nope, that DID happen. But you are ignoring the obvious reality in this case.
Please, you’re ignoring that the very obvious deduction that DNC didn’t want an open primary.
And you’re ignoring history and the way the parties have always worked when they have the incumbent
She quite specifically DIDNT run on those things, like Hillary did...so....
So every racist and misogynist will say she did anyways.
Including the ones on Lemmy.
I think she, and to a greater extent the policies of the Democratic Party since Carter just cost America the Republic but there is literally nothing a black woman could do to convince some people she's competent in her own right.
Competent at neoliberal corporate cronyism, mind you. But Harris's qualifications by herself are rock solid.
If this election cost America the Republic then I would argue the voters cost it.
If you can't be bothered to vote to save the Republic then it was lost already anyhow.
running token candidates beholden to them is very shady but brilliant strategy by the superpacs :
if they loose: blame it on sexism, racism bigotry to divert the attention from reforms in dnc for progressive leadership. and even if they pretend to be sad about it, the megarich elites and donors get taxcuts and endless price gouging from republicans.
if they win: token candidate passes some token laws which gets either blocked in senate or so poorly implemented that they actually end up giving billions to megacorps for no visible benefit to people. case in point: https://www.atr.org/kamalas-broadband-bust-42-billion-996-days-zero-homes-connected/
She quite specifically DIDNT run on those things, like Hillary did...so....
Bernie has it right. The DNC represents the rich left leaning right.
The funniest part of this is the idea that there will be an opposition party in anything but a token way after this.
Was there a party that did not install SCOTUS justices that were so ideologically conservative that they did things like end national legal abortion and gut the ability of government regulation agencies to regulate?
Yes there was. But that party is not coming back except as a token now because people just didn't think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to vote.
"The party didn't think stopping the rapist fascist dictator was a good enough reason to listen to their voters"
FTFY
Nope. They can't force anyone to vote for them. People thought not voting was a better plan than stopping the rapist fascist dictator when they only had two possible choices.
There was an absolute mountain of evidence that Trump would be a disaster. They didn't vote anyway because they knew they weren't going to get a pony.
Voting for people in a two-party system is the stupidest thing you can do because you will never get your way with any one politician. So you vote against and keep voting against until you get closer and closer to what you want.
Just not voting or voting for third party candidates that will clearly lose against someone who has an automatic 30% of the vote doesn't stop the worst possible thing from happening and it never will.
If you didn't vote to stop Trump from getting into office, I blame you. You had warning after warning and your idealism was more important to you.
Yup, which is why you need to give them reason to vote.
Democrats have been parading around "most important election of our lifetime" for fucking years - don't be surprised that it didn't work yet again.
The reason why Trump is popular is because there is legitimate pain and struggle in the working class, and he affirmed that pain and struggle (even if he was misidentifying the source of that pain). Telling voters "things are good, actually, and the other guy is gonna ruin it" is just dumb.
Democrats didn't run on popular policy and they got destroyed because of it.
Who said “things are good actually”?? Seems to me that Harris had plenty of policy proposals that would have resulted in a meaningful improvement to the bottom line of the average American.
Biden has also been better for the average American than trump was. For fucks sake, Trump actually got away with raising taxes on all of us to support his tax cut for the rich, simply because the average person is too low information to grasp the idea of a tax cut that expires!
So yeah, plenty of actual reasons to say that one candidate is better than the other, without needing to be wowed by an actual messiah who can dismantle our fucked up system and solve everybody’s problems.
They repeatedly touted our economic recovery was 'the best in the G6'.
Even when our economy is 'good' it's shit for most people. That's the problem with being a neoliberal status quo party: it doesn't help most of the people they need to vote for them
Regardless of what Biden has done for the average American, his approval rating has been really bad for a while now. It may not be right or fair, but that's what it is.
Despite Harris not actually being the incumbent, the Republicans managed to associate her with Biden and she more or less embraced it. Then the Republicans were able to frame themselves as the challenger to an unpopular incumbent president and it's not surprising they did well.
Of course, it didn't help either that Harris is the VP either. Perhaps if we had a primary and managed to pick another candidate that could distance themselves a bit better from Biden things would be different.
Biden did very early and then learned to not say that again.
Your post is CLASSIC misdirection and misrepresenting what the Dems actually did. IF these elections were fair, and I've reason to think they were not, then they got lost on higher gas prices. Which is A PRETTY STUPID AND SELFISH reason to vote for/not care about mass deportations. And they lost it on not attacking trump on the border and on the economy.
So we are now in MAGA election rigging conspiracies? JFC. Trump even won the popular vote.
Look at the 2020 popular vote. Trump got 74 Mio. votes back then and 72 Mio. Now
The Dems went from 81 Mio. to 67 Mio.
The Dems succesfully fucked this up with uninspiring candidates and lack of vision to rally their voters.
They had a reason to vote.
Their reason was that a rapist fascist who quoted Hitler and clearly has dementia that promised to deport millions of people and be a dictator on day one only had a 50/50 chance of being president.
And they didn't care because they didn't like Kamala Harris much. Was she any of those things? No. But her boss is funding the same genocide in Israel that Trump said to Netanyahu "finish the job" about on national television, so no one better vote for her either!
Sorry, not a good enough reason to not stop Trump. Not a good enough reason to refuse to vote. Not a good enough reason to vote third party.
For fuck's sake, do you think people voted for Joe Biden in 2020 because they thought he would be a terrific president?
they voted for Biden because he made meaningful concessions to the progressive caucus. He gave Bernie a prominent roll in his campaign and made promises about student loan forgiveness and raising the minimum wage, on top of affirming people's anxiety about covid and a pledge to address it.
Harris had none of that. She didn't primary against progressive candidates, didn't have to address progressive concerns, and when there was vocal opposition to any of her policies she said "excuse me, i'm speaking". She was more right-moderate than Biden was, even if only because she didn't face the progressive primary he did.
nobody gives a fuck about that. most people aren't clocked into online politics. they just live under one admin where trump benefits from obama's policy, things are squeaky clean for the most part, and then they're chilling, and then they move to living under joe biden where a once in a lifetime (hopefully, haha) pandemic decides to fuck shit up during the transition from one admin to the other, on top of inheriting a much worse economy, and then they attribute that to biden. it's not a super complicated figure, there, and that's all on top of biden just not being a very popular candidate to begin with.
if you actually look at the numbers, then the third party candidates had less of an effect for kamala than the third party candidates for trump did. which makes sense, because RFK, at the least, was campaigning on some sort of dystopian vision of the future that his deluded q-anon supporters actually liked, and he had money. jill stein is just grifting like always, basically, no change there, and no change with the lesser known candidates either, really. the bigger story is that a shit ton of the voters stayed home.
everyone wants to shift blame from the democratic party, which has obviously either mishandled this campaign or intentionally lost as a party of controlled opposition, and shift the blame onto the voters. ah, well, it was latino men's fault for being too socially conservative! ah, it was the third party voters and the leftists! it was the arab americans, who should've voted after we funded the bombs that killed their whole entire family! it was trans people, for just being too weird! those are all legitimate explanations I've heard people bring up, and I'd classify them all as basically the same, because they all equally have no evidence behind them. the real story is that she had low voter turnout. probably because she was associated with the least popular administration in decades, and refused to distinguish herself from that, and on top of that, campaigned with like, liz cheney. the most she did was offer like, tax exemptions for people starting small businesses, and tax exemptions for people who haven't missed their rent a single time in the last kajillion years. it's not rocket science, that's just not really an inspiring campaign. if they had low voter turnout, that's probably why, it's probably not because america is just too racist to vote for a black woman or whatever shit everyone's bloviating about so they can justify the democratic party turning to the right even more.
I keep seeing this "people let the fascist genocidal dictator get in because they weren't excited about Harris" excuse as if it is a good one. It isn't.
it's not an excuse, we're just telling you the reality. how do you think hitler got elected?
I agree with Flying Squid. It's bizarre to think any sane person would now decide that the right strategy is to hate on minorities, or ditch all pretty normal behaviour such as adhere to the FUCKING LAW, NOT LIE (and spare me the #FalseEquivalence, it's jaywalking Dems vs serial rapist Trump) and listen to effing EXPERTS. Dems should stick to their principles and await the serious shit show which is gonna happen with mass deportations, tariffs and even MORE INFLATION.
The only "The Onion" rather than "Not The Onion" part of this is the idea that they would announce it.
So far what I have learned about what Kamala has learned is:
It is now the darkest night in America.
But...
There are billions of stars you can only see at night!
...
You know, faint, distant glimmers from long, long ago, that you can squint at and imagine they form coherent, stable, meaningful structures... which are not, and never really were there at all.
...
I do not know if she was intentionally attempting to invert/reference Reagan's 'Morning in America' and HW's 'Thousand points of light', or if she somehow thought this was an original, meaningful metaphor.
Either would be pathetic and disgusting.
...
Anyway, quite literally that may have been how democracy in America died, to another speech of meaningless platitudes, ending with thunderous applause, congratulating that a failed struggle was worth it, because even though it failed, it played by the rules and was gracious in defeat.
End scene! Bravo!
did she wrote “rings of power” or payne&mckay wrote her speeches ?
What's the thing that will send you websites at a set date in the future? Wanna take bets and look at this 4 years from now to the day?
No idea but just use email schedule send to yourself. No need to rely on something that might stop working then, unless you use some dodgy email that's likely to close down.
you could use the futureme website
Aren't most of DNC rich AF? I can only see them benefiting from Trump.
Now they can just sit and do fuck all, because they lost everything. I'd say that makes their dayjob easier.
TBH I'd be afraid of them learning anything with headlines telling them to blame Palestine supporters and Minorities.
Pffft!!! If your idea of "learning" is to copy any of the fascist ideas of trump, then yes, they should NOT learn anything. Did Jews after Hitler go fascist...... Oh wait.
They still address Republicans as their friends and collages. Once that work shift is over, they don't care. They will run someone like Pete and have the same issues next election.
Bro BFFR Dems had Dick and Liz Cheney endorsing her, exactly what part of their base is a war criminal and his nepo baby supposed to appeal to?
Edit to add: this is who they sent to stump for Harris in Michigan and other swing states btw
That tiny minority of never trumpers
The same ones they had in 2020 because it turns out only 5% of Republicans know what republicanism is.
You're in the headline, btw.
It's insane to me how Democrats keep appealing to the right, when their historically greatest turnout has been galvanizing their base like with Obama.
And yes, a war criminal's endorsement is more important to me than a pop star's. One of them actually works in policy.
I...then why are you telling Americans that we're wrong for thinking the DNC ran a shit campaign?? Like, you're right, we're in for a FUCKED time starting January 2025, but did you really expect people to turn out on election night out of an existential threat? Does that happen where you live?
Harris didn't lose because everyone voted for Trump, Harris lost because the Dem's voter base felt so unheard by their own candidate regarding their issues that they stayed home, exactly as Bernie Sanders said. The numbers and voter stats are all there for people to read. Harris AND Trump got overall less votes than 2020, but Harris lost the Blue Wall from 2020. Hillary at least won the popular vote, Harris and the 2024 DNC don't even have that.
It doesn't matter where you are in the world, voter turnout correlates to progressives getting in power. The conservatives always have a core base of ~20-30% of voters that will always show up (no really, look up historical voter numbers in your own country), and the DNC have really tried appealing to these people in the US instead of bringing out their own base!
It's a flawed strategy because it's shown over and over again that these core voters will always vote through their conservative party lines.
It's not a high horse, because I voted for Kamala Harris. But as someone who actually goes here, I knew this was going to be the exact outcome, because this high minded "vote for Trump to save democracy" is what got us in this mess in the first place. It happened in exactly like this 2016, and the Dem's didn't learn.
Sure, we can blame the electorate, I'm all for it. But saying that it's SOLELY the electorate's fault when the DNC has been trotting out milquetoast candidates one after the other is so disingenuous. Americans keep saying they don't want two right wing candidates, but no one is listening.
I dont think that everyone gives the same weight to those peoples opinions. Some see Obama as a war criminal, mark Cuban is in the billionaire class and is against business regulation, taylor swift is also a billionaire, and Beyonce is a billionaire as well?
Bernie gave the same vote against tyranny stuff the democrats were saying. I dont recall him being excited about Kamala's policy, was he?
If the republicans are running on change, and the democrats are running on not changing, but most americans want things to change, it shouldnt be shocking which one wins.
The democrats could have offered up a better idea to change the country but they didnt. They tried to scold and patronize people into voting for them instead.
Yes, it they still don’t want the status quo, so they would not have been happy either way. The point is that the party proposing a change can scoop up votes of those wishing for change, which is most people.
Biden didn’t win on no change. He won on change from trumps presidency. Change wins. Proposals win. Stability is good, but if people don’t feel stability, like with runaway inflation, or a recent global pandemic, or a recent trump presidency, then saying things are stable and good is not a winner. They are not.
All of that's true, but not how the general voting population works. We have to live in the world that exists, not the one where everyone is paying as much attention as they should.
Alternatively, this should be massive fucking sign that the general voting populace is so desperate for any change that they'd go for horrible changes rather than perpetuating the status quo.
There is enough blame to go around. However, voters as a bloc is a more nebulous concept than a voter or party.
well, hey, they're all american voters, right, and apparently we're all too moronic to understand the basic things at stake, so maybe that is what we deserve, right?
I mean she chose to spend the last weeks essentially campaigning with the cheneys that's different than just an endorsement when they star in dozens of rallies.
For real, all these people blaming democrats for not winning when billionaires were literally buying votes to not be taxed by democrats. Seems like a campaign.
Well, if anything it proves that Unions work. Unions of billionaire media moguls especially. Many (soft, wealthy) hands coming together, to push in collectively towards a common goal of eliminating the National Labor Relations Board, the EPA, the SEC, and the IRS... it's kind of beautiful, in its way. (/s)
ah yes, taylor swift, noted political figure. surely, that will drive turnout. obama and bernie sanders, yes, great choices, truly, this will save us even when we're not campaigning on their policies. mark cuban. yes. multiple military generals, very cool.
extrapolate what you actually mean with this train of thought. what do you think the democrats should've actually done differently? they're the ones who've lost, what should they have done more? who should they have appealed to? seems like everyone wants to put the emphasis solely on the trump voters and the non-voters, and since the non-voters are non-voters, oh, wowie, look at that, all we have left are trump voters to go after.
shocker. I wonder what the party will head after, with this train of thought? I wonder which direction they'll go in? surely, they wouldn't double down, right? surely, they wouldn't go further after the trump voters, after all the committed registered republican voters that turned out last time switched and... lost them a percentage point in that category, this go around. from 6% to 5%. we should emphasize the trump voters more, we should go after them more, obviously, because they're the only ones willing to vote!
extract what you're talking about, extrapolate. if you just run around up in your feels as a non-american, blaming the wind for blowing, then you're just gonna end up blasting darpanet even harder.
Centrists. There was a reason that when Democrats took the House and Senate in 2006, they didn't stop being a rubber stamp for Cheney's war.
I disagree. At the risk of oversimplifying, American voters tend to respect strength of conviction, even if they don't always agree with the policy, over milquetoast candidates. That's why Sanders attracted so many voters who went on to vote for the other party's candidate in the general election. Democrats need to decide what they believe in, and say it long, loud, and proud.
They did seem quite unsure of what their values should be. I think thats a negative for some people that a persons values seem to change to match the audience. The pre-planned replies didnt help either. Kept hearing the same points almost to a word.
Why's it so hard to speak like a human being for the democrats? Make fun of trump all we want, his McDonalds video was not a bad look, it was personable.
I just typed another reply to the effect that Democrats can't express strong values because of the inherent contradiction of being a corporatist party trying to appeal to workers for votes. I would add that it's not only a bad look, but a bad political tactic: If you don't state your values, your opponents are more than happy to fill in the blanks with whatever batshit nonsense serves their purpose.
And when they lose they take the high road of blaming themselves. It's en exercise in self flagellation.
Well, there isn't going to be a Palestine in not too much longer after Bibi ethnically cleanses it and annexes it to Greater Israel.
This is unironically true, unfortunately.
64 percent of native americans voting trump was an eye opening stat for me. They are done w the status quo. 2020 it was 54 percent.
Pokémon God save us!
It's totally crazy to me that Trump and crew are planning who to use the full power of the United States to murder and the Democratic Party is trying to figure out who to blame for it.
We need them to fight or what good are they?
wouldnt matter if they did learn from it if the crap trump campaigned on goes through and he becomes a "king" in this country
Does make you wonder how different America's political system is to Russia's if a little more subtle about it
What should they really learn? I'm sick of the blame being placed on decent people not doing enough.
How about we blame the pieces of crap that support Trump who has too many disgusting qualities to list.
Off topic, by why in god do people refer to the democrats as the DNC as if it's the acronym for the democratic party?
It's a bit like someone calling every piece in chess a "pawn". It's not right technically, and it sounds dumb.
The electoral college did a great job once again. Everyone please raise your butts as they come out fucking. We want them to enjoy this moment. And let's all look and act terrified as they penetrate us once more. Let's trust that they will vote for the candidate they think we need next time too.
What I would like to know the most is why 14 million registered Democrats failed to vote in this election, especially given what is at stake. Because if it was for some stupid, single issue, then fark them, good and hard.
it's because the dems tacked hard right to appeal to the mythical "moderate conservative" while telling everyone to the left of them to fuck off for months and months on end. people were shouting from the rooftops that this was going to cost them the election, and damn wouldn't you know it, it looks like it did! will they learn from it? probably not!
Just commenting to say I love your name lmfaooo
Why would they learn? They'll be fine.
This is what people don't seem to understand. This is not some mythical "huge force." Democrats elect their people through primaries and they rise. Same as ever.
But all the people who don't participate? YOU are the ones that have to suffer. Harris was a fine candidate. Sure she wasn't Santa Claus on Christmas but she was fine and a million ways better than Trump. But people said "eh, I'm ok with Trump then" and didn't vote for her.
She isn't gonna suffer. The DNC isn't going to suffer. YOU and I are. This is what we call an "own goal." And all the people wanting more left policy? Well good fucking luck when they stack the SCOTUS with 40 year old right wing fucks, stack the rest of the courts, and move everything back another 20 years progress-wise. Think you're getting better healthcare soon? Think again. It got a ton harder now. Worried about the climate? Great! Because it was fucked before and it'll be fucked a fuck more now. What little we were doing is going up in smoke.
Besides that- two things can be right. The Dems need to refocus AND shithead lazy ass nonvoters need to get off the fucking couch and vote no matter what. Well, if they can still vote in a free and fair election in 2/4 years.
Are you suggesting that if a voter doesn't feel that either candidate will represent their needs, they should vote anyway?
They should be smart enough to vote for the one who gets closest to their needs. If they're not a complete moron that is.
The car is moving in one direction or another. It'd be smart to at least move it in the direction you think it should go.
And theyre jackasses for that. It's a civic duty. Go write in Mickey mouse. But you should be voting regardless.
And if you don't then you can just stfu about anything because you never did the bare minimum to change anything.
this literally did not happen this year.
man, Hard Times really was right on the money, Dems aren't going to learn a single thing from this. I don't know how to tell you that people are not going to get excited to go vote for Diet Republicans that don't represent their positions. they will simply stay home! that's literally what happened here, and you're sitting here going "errrrmm they're actually just lazy 🤓 don't they know about DRUMPF???"
And their dumbasses will get fucked by trump just the same. Congrats to them.
You guys think the dems really care. They'll be fine. But hey, act like youre really sticking it to them. Im sure theyre so hurt and won't make ends meet now.
If you need to ask, then you haven't been paying attention
Having fake primaries sure didn't help.
Dick riding dick Cheney might have something to do with it. Fucking embarrassing.
Exactly what is it they're supposed to learn? I’m tired of this generic self-flagellation and blame game that says exactly the same thing every loss, but gets rounds of back slapping when the exact same tactics net a win.
What is it exactly that should be done differently?
The reason we lost is because people didn’t vote. Not because they voted for trump. So some apathetic MFs handed trump the win. We should ask them why they allowed that to happen.
E: y’all downvoting a legit question and position? Pretty hypocritical to push aside someone asking a real question about change so the question doesn’t get seen. We want change, but we don’t want anyone to ask us what it should be?
To those suggesting the solution is to go farther left, you're delusional
The best thing you can hope for, is the farthest left, electable candidate
Based on the state of play, the winning ticket in 2028 I would project to be Manchin/Witmer
AOC is never going to be prez (unfortunately) in her lifetime. The country is not ready for that
In case you are doubting reality, note that a far-right populist just won the popular vote in a landslide, bury your head in the sand all you like, its not going to move your agenda forward
Why are all you fools like "HA! BY NOT VOTING I SURE SHOWED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY"?
you played YOURSELVES. You're the one that's gonna suffer not the party. It's like you shot yourself just to spite Democrats, and you don't realize that it's you who is fucked, not the Democratic party
Also the campaign was bad. Not a soul here on lemmy or anywhere else is going to personally out-message a national campaign. People are obviously more enthusiastic to vote for something than to vote against something else, and that's what it came down to.
Be mad at your party, they threw this election right before your eyes and you plugged your ears and went "lalalala! trump voter says what!" when we tried to tell you that you needed to pressure them to do more or they were going to lose anyways.
Right?
They want progressives to be both a small minority they can ignore, but also 17 million people?!
That would make them 20% of the party...
If 20% of your own party can out message your own campaign, then it's a shit campaign. Even before factoring in the billion plus dollars you compromised the party platform to raise and the fact that the opponent is trump.
We can't keep letting the DNC be the only other option. They're clearly not capable of it.
I remember people here getting crapped on for saying Biden should drop out and let someone else run.
Yet the moment he did, it became some 4D chess move that was going to win the election.
And then the same people were crapped on for "selfishly" asking for a primary to choose a candidate instead of being force fed Harris.
The most delusional person I saw was someone who was convinced the uncommitted movement was backing Harris, after getting banned from the DNC rally for not unconditionally backing Harris....
You aren't going to like this, but there just isn't a reason to vote for Democrats if they aren't going to oppose the Republicans on anything but the personality of Donald Trump.
Sure, they give us lip service, they even throw in goodies once in a while! You get all warm and fuzzy imagining all the things you can "move them" on, but even if they do "listen" to you, (seriously, you guys didn't even like their platform, and you're the ones loyal to them. Whose votes are they earning if not yours??) they get challenged and they throw their hands up and say "guess there's nothing that could be done" and Republicans get whatever they want anyways.
It's the same outcome, this one just makes you feel bad and dare I say it might actually move you to act.
Again with the "YOU" aren't gonna like this. No man it's you voters who fucked yourselves. The Democratic party is gonna survive and it's politicians aren't gonna get poorer. It's you who suffers
I bet your solution is to just vote harder for the same fucking assholes who are fucking us all over! That will show them!
Stupid stupid stupid.
Yeah your solution of not voting at all and allowing Trump to win is a much better option lol
I voted third party thank you very much. Trump voters voted for trump. Harris voters voted for Harris. Third party voters voted for third parties. The democrats ran an awful candidate and then have the audacity to whine bitch moan and scream about how it’s voters fault that they ran a shit ass candidate.
2016 all over again. Trump would of won 2020 too if covid never happened. The democrats are a decaying corpse of a political party and need to be replaced.
Doing the same thing over and over, failing, and expecting it to somehow work if you just do it harder next time is fucking madness.
DECADES OF NEOLIBERALISM CREATED THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS FOR FASCISM TO TAKE ROOT.
I agree with your last sentence
You voted the way Trump wanted you to, way to go fascist
Don’t you have homework to do in your parents basement?
That’s not how voting works, but given I’m probably arguing with a child I’m not surprised you don’t understand how voting works.
Really felt the need to embody that headline huh.
The voters must come to the party, not the other way around.
So you're saying we should all make our own party? With blackjack and hookers?
With that attitude you can enjoy losing 2028 as well. The fucking entitlement.
If standing against fascism doesn't bring the leftists to vote, you're doomed. And AGAIN, you only fucked yourselves. The Democratic party isn't gonna suffer, YOU are.
They’ve had four years to deal with the fascism problem and so far they’ve done Jack shit.
Ah ok that's why you just stood off to the side and allowed fascism to win? The Democratic party didn't end fascism, so you may as well join the fascists?
I voted third party. What are the democrats doing to fight fascism other than… courting fascists themselves?
You guys really are fucked. I thought just the right way stupid in your country but it's all of you. And you guys love fascism. You facilitated it.
That's the argument for replacing them...
Not enabling them and giving them what they want.
Like, you're literally arguing that we should negotiate with the people holding our country hostage
Idiots, you're the only ones suffering. The Democratic party will be fine, you won't. You had more to lose by not voting.
I can’t in good consciousness vote for genociders, so I voted third party, my only anti genocide option.
CRY ABOUT IT.
Lol the third party candidates are also anti Palestine. That's why you should not make another country's war, your one issue election in your own country. Especially when every candidate is against you. All you did was allow the worse one to win, insuring the destruction of Palestine which is now on your hands. Way to support genocide
Nice circular logic there bud. You late for after school debate class? Is mom checking your homework?
Whatever. I'm done arguing with you Americans. I used to think you guys were stupid, now I know you're actually fascists. You've collectively become the dumbest people on earth
Lol, you’re not even American and you’re arguing about this? Do you even know how the electoral college works? Do you know how any of our government structure works?!
If you took every single third party vote across the country and gave all of them to Harris in just the swing states (some democracy we’ve got…) trump still would have won, in a landslide no less. And still won the senate, and it looks like the house is still projected to go Republican as well.
I’m a Vermonter. Vermont was going in a landslide to Harris (president), sanders (senate), and Scott (governor) no matter who I voted for on any of those lines. I voted third party in all three of those races (I once worked for the sanders campaign in 2015 but I’m so tired of his milquetoast bullshit as of late) and then in other local races it was a split ticket. For example, Vermonts Republican running for state treasurer wants to divest state pensions from blackrock. Meanwhile, the democrat incumbent just gave typical mealymouthed democrat party platitudes that were completely meaningless. The Republican in that race got my vote because they earned it.
The entitlement of libs is unreal.
Can’t kill already dead people. They’re both killers, it’s hard to be worse than biden/Harris are currently supporting.
Trump has told Bibi to "Finish the job in Gaza". Bibi will ethnic cleanse Gaza and the West Bank- there will be no Palestine, just Greater Israel. And that is better than Biden/Harris?
It’s not better, it’s the same fucking thing.
I voted for Jill Stein since I live in a pure blue state and my vote doesn't count anyway
At least the non-voters got to do something useful with the time they saved.
You know there are local elections that matter more right? Thats where most of us are these days.
We'll show them next year for sure. Maybe even get our name printed on the ballot
Well they might have turned out and voted down ticket and showed us what candidates and policies did motivate them but you told them their votes would be worthless if they didn't specifically vote for Kamala so they stayed home.
The typical liberal condescension and assumptions cease to amuse.
They'll learn the left never shows up, even when their human fucking rights are at stake. Next election the Dems will go hard center, to get the voters that actually show up. *We're going to see them go hard on Clinton's "It's the economy, stupid".
She was on a rocketship trajectory before getting Cheney on and focusing on old ex-R endorsements. There aren't enough voters in the center and you can't switch any magats is the takeaway.
Well that and before going super war hawk in her nomination acceptance speech.
and you’re never going to be able to stop that, so you need to give the left who stayed home (as fucking stupid as that was) someone to be excited about
I wonder if liberals have finally stopped calling anyone who criticizes Harris and the DNC campaign a MAGA troll.
At least they seem to have moved on from Russian bot.
Probably never will. We'll be hearing them blaming us as we shuffle in a chain gang to the concentration camps.
The DNC saw who their rival is and decided to move in that direction instead of catering to the millions that are not voting because of their lacklustre policies. Good job the DNC as well, then.
What about the ones who are voting but doesn't use their voice to pressure the DNC to adopt more progressive policies, but instead prefer to alienate the left even more by attacking them the whole way up to the election. I'm sure they're happy with their decision, as well.
That's because you can only think in black and white terms that you can't tell that it's not just 'leftist' that would be motivated to vote if the DNC had catered to more progressive policies, but a lot of people on the centre that had also been disillusioned by the political system. We've seen many times that progressive stances gets a lot of support from people of all political spectrum, yet the only thing the DNC can think to do is try to appeal to the right side of the spectrum that would still only vote for a Republican? So ridiculous.
In the meantime, you can continue putting your head in the sand and enjoy watching Harris get less support than Hillary because the 'leftist' are not worth listening to. I'm sure you think if she had slid even more to the right, she would've gotten more support, right?
Exactly this.
There are literally shit tons of voters in the center, that is the big fat juicy center that decides elections. Plus those voters are worth double, because it's a vote for you and a vote taken away from the other party.
Dems lose when they try to appease this magical center because it takes the wind out of the sails of of their voting base. I mean getting buddy buddy with Liz Cheney killed my enthusiasm entirely and I only showed up to vote against Republicans instead of wanting to vote.
Dems win when they promote hope and energize voters to increase voting turnout. She squandered that momentum.
Go through history: After successive losses Bill Clinton went center on the economy, as you do against an incumbent, and won. Gore when left with climate change and lost. Obama relied on "hope" and won after Bush's disastrous wars. Hillary said she'd have a map room to fight climate change and lost. Biden went center, as you do against an incumbent, and won. Kamala tried to copy Obama's "hope" and energy, but it didn't work because "it's the economy, stupid". *She didn't run to the left on policy (because she saw that didn't help Biden after he passed all those left things) but she still relied on the left to show up for their human fucking rights. They couldn't even do that.
Every time the Dems lose it's because they relied on the left that didn't show up, and the Dems only win when they go center.
That's... interesting... I don't know about Bill Clinton, not too familiar with that part of American history, but Gore? Gore won but didn't demand a recount of Florida. Obama relied on leftist policies and wiped the floor with the GOP. Hillary lost because she was a "hold your nose and vote for her" centrist, not because she relied on leftists what the fuck are you even talking about? Harris did the same thing as Hillary and predictably lost.
and even the biden win was just stupidly close given trump literally drove your whole country head first into the top “fucked up the pandemic” spot
Can I find anything about the Biden win being close? I wasn't following that election that closely.
Obama stayed vague and relied on hope and energy. It was enough after Bush's disastrous wars.
More on Obama: So he enacted the ACA. That's great, right? The thanks Obama got for that was to lose the House of Representatives for year 3 and 4. And lose the House of reps again for years 5 and 6. And then lose both the House of reps and the Senate for years 7 and 8. He enacted left policy and: The left never showed up.
Hillary Clinton: So what did Hillary learn from the last 6 years of Obama? She learned that the left never shows up. So she only stuck her head out with a big position to left on the map room to climate change. She basically declared war on climate change. You know that big existential issue that all the leftists care about, right? The big important issue that the left says they want so badly, right? And guess what happened? Bam she lost. Thanks protest non-voters! Aka: The left never shows up.
Harris quite literally tried to copy Obama's hope and energy strategy. She literally hired Obama's campaign strategists. But it didn't work because "it's the economy stupid".
Economy is always first. You're right that's what you need to focus on to get the center. But you also need to be left enough to energize the left to get over the Rs own center and right voters.
Okay you clearly aren't interested in actually learning anything. Have a good day.
The left DOES show up...but here's the thing...there's not enough of them to make a difference. I know it FEELS like leftism and even progressivism is super duper popular because its omnipresent on the internet but in the real world there just aren't enough of them to matter for national elections outside of a few specific places.
It's like relying on an 8 year old to help you move furniture. You quickly realize that they just aren't strong enough to do much.
Moving to the right just failed spectacularly. Democrats will do it again anyway.
Oh? Who does the canvasing? Who gets their friends to vote? You ignore the cascade effect of lefties on their moderate social circle. Who absolutely eviscerates the dems when then start supporting genocide and procorporate nonsense over working Americans.
You're trying to pretend that Harris ran to the left because you still think it's the fucking 90s.
What are you smoking? I literally just said: Kamala tried to copy Obama's "hope" and energy, but [it didn't work because] "it's the economy, stupid". She didn't run to the left on policy (because she saw that didn't help Biden after he passed all those left things) but she relied on the left to show up for their human fucking rights and mfing democracy. They couldn't even do that.
Oh I remember you, you're the guy that never makes any sense.
Look at how well that worked out.
Kamala didn't appeal to them. Clinton was right: "It's the economy stupid". That's what got Trump in. Trump won on inflation, housing, and (further right) xenophobia.
This is true, and those voters main concern in presidential elections is the economy. According to NBC's exit polling:
Meanwhile only 4% of voters cited foreign policy (which covers the Gaza genocide and Ukraine's defense -- immigration was broken out into a separate category) as their main concern. Even if Harris flipped the big red "stop the genocide" button and brought those single issue voters out of hiding, there's no way they could outnumber the voters who were pissed about the economy.
Frankly, if she was going to have a real chance, she needed to throw Biden under the bus -- and it still might not have made a difference.
If she came out and said she would stop companies fucking their customers, that might have done it.
I think instead she entertained firing Lina Khan?
Yup. 🤦
That 4% represented 25 electoral college votes fam.
But yes the economy as well. Go look at Michigan and Wisconsin and keep the arabs in mind. When you play with your numbers.
And all she had to do was say she'd apply american laws to israel. And not let her campaign shit on arabs. Shame really.
As for the economy... Yeah 'nothing specificly comes to mind' probably isnt the best choice to run. My khan! 😞😮💨
That's a bold statement only a day after a campaign based on going hard-center crashed and burned.
The right didn't show up either, but you lot were gung-ho about getting their fucking approval. You showed the left everything you are.
If the left are not important enough to court, they're not important enough to blame, even though that means your strategy was shit and you moved to the right for nothing but the sheer joy of it.
This election showed either 1) the left will literally never show up, or 2) the left doesn't exist. Take your pick, either way the left is done. No one's going to rely on the left or run a left platform for fucking decades.
They already weren't relying on the left in this election so what's changed exactly?
They were relying on the left showing up for their own human fucking rights and mfing democracy. If the left can't show up for that, they will literally never show up. No one will ever put themselves in a position to rely on the left voter ever again. Not for decades.
I'll see you next time when they get again pander to the center and Republicans and fail again. 🫡
We'll see if we even have a fair election.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or a colossal idiot who learned nothing from the satirical article about the fact that the people you're deflecting blame off of learning nothing.If it's the former, well done I guess? 🤷If it's the latter, please wake the fuck up and smell the malignant incompetence.
Edit: just realized that you're the "Hillary 2016 was further left than Obama 2008" weirdo, so it's DEFINITELY the latter. Please abandon your ridiculous pet hypothesis and get a fucking clue.
As a non-American I wanna ask: Is the American left blaming Harris and the DNC for this or is it all "Americans are so sexist" and "leftists suck" nonsense like I'm seeing here? Idk where to get this information and I wanna know if I get to have some faith in humanity.
It's all of the above, really. The Left (actual left, rather than the center right to right wing Democrats in charge of the party) is blaming the DNC, Harris, racism, sexism, the billionaire-owned media, the antiquated political system, and of course the people who voted for fascism. Because all of those things contributed meaningfully to the baffling and tragic result.
Meanwhile, the DNC and their most diehard supporters blame racism, sexism, and most of all the Left.
They obstinately refuse to acknowledge that their "team" fucked up, so they're blaming the people whose warnings they refused to listen to.
Strawman
Ad hom
Nope, you literally keep arguing that Hillary lost because she went left and Obama won because he didn't. Accurately restating your nonsense is not a strawman.
As for ad hominem, that's a nope too. An ad hominem fallacy is when you try to dismiss an argument by insulting the person rather than the context of the argument.
In this case, I'm adding an accurately descriptive insult as an observation after dismissing your argument based on one of many examples of how ridiculous the argument itself is. Which is not an ad hominem.
You, logic, and language don't seem to be on the best of terms..
You rely on bad readings and insults, so fallacies through and through.
Wrong again, but being confidently wrong is your comfort zone, so it's hardly surprising 🤷
See? Peace.
Ya, I feel like I’m taking crazy pills with all these posts blaming democrats for losing when billionaires are literally buying votes to stop Harris.
I mean Harris also had billionaire support. She wasn't exactly a revolutionary. And you put "billionaires" but that was Elon Musk's incompetent ass.
According to Fox news Harris had more Billionaires on her side
A new report shows the Harris-Walz campaign and its Democratic allies spent nearly $1.4 billion on aired political ads in their failed bid to defeat President-elect Trump, outspending the 45th president and Republicans by nearly $460 million.
It is Fox so take it with a grain of salt. But it would not be surprising.
1.4 billion to their media company friends. maybe they should have hired some canvassers.
did you see this?? they wrote an article about you!