to be clear, ukraine went ahead and did this anyway. And then the US lifted restrictions on this kind of stuff (idk if it was completely, but they did do it)
It's not really arbitrary, it's just geopolitics being geopolitics, ukraine and the rest of europe showed that russia would bluff, and we're supporting them more now.
I guess it should make sense coming from a partially republican legislature that doesn't even believe in the ukraine war to begin with.
they have sent other munitions from other sources fairly deep into russia, i believe the submarine dock attack was with a storm shadow missile, and at least one drone attack, the obvious one being the kremlin bombing, as well other other sourced materials they can find. They've been doing it whenever accessible and possible. Oh and obviously the recent offensive into russia itself.
The obvious example is the ATACMs missile, but i believe that was post restriction.
to be clear here, i'm not saying they broke the US restrictions, i'm saying they broke the "taboo" on firing into russian territory.
sevastopol is in crimea right? Is crimea recognized broadly by the global nations to be ukrainian territory? Crimea is annexed by russia, there was a whole thing around this when it happened. I know ukraine contests this and wishes to get it back, but currently for most intents, and most purposes, crimea is a part of russia.
Ya I'm with you there, they have broken so many taboos (or as the russians call it, red lines), tanks, western help, javelins, hitting oil depos, substations (but that was retaliation I guess), ...
What about a kremlin attack? I only know about a staged one with a drone from IDR like 2022?
I though Russia coming to the aid of Assad was pretty publicly admitted. Heck Russia had and has a Military Port in Syria and a very understandable motivation to keep it.
And America is using that to exert their influence on that region in the world. Sure sounds like a proxy. Just because Israel has more power in American politics compared to Ukraine doesn't mean they aren't a proxy.
I mean, the difference being that the US has a say in how one in conducted, and a very justified interest in it's outcome, while the other is in the Middle East.
Why they are running a proxy war that's out of control and doesn't help anything is a good question, and one that can only have stupid answers.
I mean…. They’re two totally different conflicts with different politics run by independent countries…. That are also proxy wars being funded by the US and China.
Russia supports Iran while the US supports the paragons of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Kind of like the US was leaning Pakistan while Russia leans India. Now China finds more value with Pakistan than we do though (which will eventually make us do something stupid to "support our interests").
Yeah, I still don't understand the Pakistan thing. Pakistan:
harbored Osama bin Laden
has pretty uninteresting economic output
has serious beef with their much larger neighbor India, and are somewhat friendly with Iran and China
Whereas India:
has a ton of people
already has pretty extensive economic ties to the US, which could be strengthened, and is a ripe alternative to China for production
has tensions w/ China, so we have mutual enemies
is highly unlikely to harbor any of our enemies
Yet we keep them at arm's length.
I could say the same for Israel and Saudi Arabia. Why are we so intent on picking the worst possible countries in a given region? The only explanation is that we want war...
More like India remembers our position in the cold war and doesn't have any desire to be beholden to us. Doesn't matter if it's the Hindutva or INC, neither are friendly to US hegemony. I'd hold the same position if I was them of course. I mean we still embargo Cuba for fucks sake.
I think they've gone beyond somewhat friendly with China. They've got PLA troops in Pakistan now doing anti terrorism work. The chances of the Chinese establishing a naval base in Pakistan is far from remote at this point, though I think it would be a back channel red line from the Americans regarding further military funding.
I guess. But on the other hand, a closer union between the US and India should give the US a chunk of that growth, as well as allow the US to shape how India develops.
Pakistan doesn't export any oil, and while they have discovered oil reserves, western companies aren't interested due to security concerns. So it's not oil.
50 years ago during the Cold War the economic trajectory of the two wasn’t so different, and pakistan also included what would become Bangladesh. Nixon was opening relations with China after the sino Soviet split, and India probably wouldn’t agree to ally with someone who was in the process of economically integrating with a country that they were actively fighting a border war with (sino Indian border war 1962-present). Pre Iranian revolution Iran was also a major ally and shares a significant land border with Pakistan, and probably most importantly, Pakistan was an ideal country to serve as a funnel for military assistance to the mujahideen to help fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, which would arguably lead to the economic drain and political quagmire that was a primary factor in its collapse.
Of course the mujahideen would then evolve to become Al Qaeda which Pakistan would harbor, Iran would have its revolution, Bangladesh would gain independence, and the Pakistani military dictatorship would squander the potential of their country on a nuclear program and trying to maintain an army of equal strength to a country 10x their population. But the choice had a lot more geopolitical merit way back then, and once it had been made it is not so easy as forgive and forget or to counter the logistical inertia just because the circumstances change.
The American reaction in the second frame should've been: cool, here's more weapons.
I was out of the loop
For real though, Biden + his foreign policy and military advisors are gonna win a mental gymnastics competition with this shit
Biden be like: "Come here, anything for you haBiBi"
Biden is a simp to Netanyahu.
Drag hears that Biden even does Netanyahu's laundry
Making fun of the IDF on Reddit? That's a paddlin'.
How is this making fun of the IDF? Seems to me the topic is the Biden administration's arbitrary restrictions on Ukraine.
to be clear, ukraine went ahead and did this anyway. And then the US lifted restrictions on this kind of stuff (idk if it was completely, but they did do it)
It's not really arbitrary, it's just geopolitics being geopolitics, ukraine and the rest of europe showed that russia would bluff, and we're supporting them more now.
I guess it should make sense coming from a partially republican legislature that doesn't even believe in the ukraine war to begin with.
It's about atacms strikes deep (+100km) inside russia, what according to you did they do "anyways"?
They attacked with long range drones rather than American weapons
I know, and that has always "been allowed".
they have sent other munitions from other sources fairly deep into russia, i believe the submarine dock attack was with a storm shadow missile, and at least one drone attack, the obvious one being the kremlin bombing, as well other other sourced materials they can find. They've been doing it whenever accessible and possible. Oh and obviously the recent offensive into russia itself.
The obvious example is the ATACMs missile, but i believe that was post restriction.
to be clear here, i'm not saying they broke the US restrictions, i'm saying they broke the "taboo" on firing into russian territory.
The submarine dock was in Sevastopol, which is Russian-occupied Ukraine rather than Russia.
sevastopol is in crimea right? Is crimea recognized broadly by the global nations to be ukrainian territory? Crimea is annexed by russia, there was a whole thing around this when it happened. I know ukraine contests this and wishes to get it back, but currently for most intents, and most purposes, crimea is a part of russia.
You can make up your own mind, but that's a strong yes to me:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Crimea#Stances
Ya I'm with you there, they have broken so many taboos (or as the russians call it, red lines), tanks, western help, javelins, hitting oil depos, substations (but that was retaliation I guess), ...
What about a kremlin attack? I only know about a staged one with a drone from IDR like 2022?
oh was the drone attack on the kremlin staged? I remember hearing that as a possibility, but i never looked into it after the fact.
The trick to a good proxy war is that everyone involved has to participate via proxy. Russia broke the rules and now we all have to walk on eggshells.
It's not up to Biden bud.
You're wrong. Such decisions are made by the Executive branch.
Wait....
Are we on Reddit?
No, according to the poster, this post was removed from r/NCD (on Reddit).
Thanks for responding.
I was mostly just sarcastically joking.
Assuming most of us had made the switch at some point. Etc etc etc
In other news I hope you're having a nice day!
I am a bit of a dunce lol, clearly need my joke meter checked. Hope you're having a good one also
Look can't I just be happy a Russian airbase was attacked?
Hahaha
FUCK YOU RUSSIA
Lmao fuck these wars are complicated but there is one simple fact we can agree on
I like the cut of your jib
Wow very juicy. In Syria, but still.
"There are no russians in Syria!"
Well, not any more
Did anyone ever say that?
I though Russia coming to the aid of Assad was pretty publicly admitted. Heck Russia had and has a Military Port in Syria and a very understandable motivation to keep it.
it was a joking reference to the battle of Khasham. There are very much russians in Syria.
thank you. I'm not fully in the NCD culture yet.
Ah yes Ukraine and Israel are both American proxy wars and not totally different conflicts with different politics run by independent countries
We sure are supporting Israel a lot for it to not be a proxy war though...
And America is using that to exert their influence on that region in the world. Sure sounds like a proxy. Just because Israel has more power in American politics compared to Ukraine doesn't mean they aren't a proxy.
Then what is a proxy war?
Rule 11. Don't spread Misinformation.
You won't! I double dog dare you!
BRING IT PUSSY
Lol goodbye 4 week old troll account
I mean, the difference being that the US has a say in how one in conducted, and a very justified interest in it's outcome, while the other is in the Middle East.
Why they are running a proxy war that's out of control and doesn't help anything is a good question, and one that can only have stupid answers.
It's not a proxy war; it's a proxy "police action."
I mean…. They’re two totally different conflicts with different politics run by independent countries…. That are also proxy wars being funded by the US and China.
I wonder how Russia feels as the proxy in the fight rather than the supplier of a proxy in the fight
Right? Probably a new position for them.
They’re being supplied and bank rolled by China now
They did what?
Also, the auto fill results when you type in "Israel bombs" are interesting.
That's just the comedian Isreal, he's not very good.
Oh I hear they're quite funny, but anyone who disagrees with their humor is anti-Semitic.
I got "orphanage" as my second result.
I got school as first recommendation :')
third*
The first one isn't auto fill, it's a previous search.
oh, yeah. Sorry. I think im blind.
PMCs: We firebombed an orphanage. Any government every: Boys will be boys
Everyone! Dont you see! Isreal is trying to divert Russian troops from Ukraine. This is a win!!!
/s
If this pulls Russia out of Ukraine to attack israel that would make me so happy
🔥
I hope that's just a joke, it's not like Israel needs more enemies
Russia supports Iran while the US supports the paragons of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Kind of like the US was leaning Pakistan while Russia leans India. Now China finds more value with Pakistan than we do though (which will eventually make us do something stupid to "support our interests").
Yeah, I still don't understand the Pakistan thing. Pakistan:
Whereas India:
Yet we keep them at arm's length.
I could say the same for Israel and Saudi Arabia. Why are we so intent on picking the worst possible countries in a given region? The only explanation is that we want war...
Sunk-cost fallacy stemming from Cold War-era choices.
Yeah, my guess is that since they have nukes, we feel obligated to keep them close so those nukes don't end up in the wrong hands.
More like India remembers our position in the cold war and doesn't have any desire to be beholden to us. Doesn't matter if it's the Hindutva or INC, neither are friendly to US hegemony. I'd hold the same position if I was them of course. I mean we still embargo Cuba for fucks sake.
This the same India that's been spending the past 20 years cozying up to us? And vice-versa, of course, we've been very interested in India as well.
Pakistan is the major stumbling block remaining, not the policy of half a century ago.
I think they've gone beyond somewhat friendly with China. They've got PLA troops in Pakistan now doing anti terrorism work. The chances of the Chinese establishing a naval base in Pakistan is far from remote at this point, though I think it would be a back channel red line from the Americans regarding further military funding.
India is a contender for becoming a major power in a multipolar world, where the US is not the hegemon anymore.
So it makes perfect sense to help Pakistan and stir the conflict so, India is slowed in its advances to become a major power.
I guess. But on the other hand, a closer union between the US and India should give the US a chunk of that growth, as well as allow the US to shape how India develops.
religion and oil are the basic reasons, aren't they?
Pakistan doesn't export any oil, and while they have discovered oil reserves, western companies aren't interested due to security concerns. So it's not oil.
I just don't see it.
50 years ago during the Cold War the economic trajectory of the two wasn’t so different, and pakistan also included what would become Bangladesh. Nixon was opening relations with China after the sino Soviet split, and India probably wouldn’t agree to ally with someone who was in the process of economically integrating with a country that they were actively fighting a border war with (sino Indian border war 1962-present). Pre Iranian revolution Iran was also a major ally and shares a significant land border with Pakistan, and probably most importantly, Pakistan was an ideal country to serve as a funnel for military assistance to the mujahideen to help fight the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, which would arguably lead to the economic drain and political quagmire that was a primary factor in its collapse.
Of course the mujahideen would then evolve to become Al Qaeda which Pakistan would harbor, Iran would have its revolution, Bangladesh would gain independence, and the Pakistani military dictatorship would squander the potential of their country on a nuclear program and trying to maintain an army of equal strength to a country 10x their population. But the choice had a lot more geopolitical merit way back then, and once it had been made it is not so easy as forgive and forget or to counter the logistical inertia just because the circumstances change.
Yeah, it's not easy to change direction, but I think it's long past time to do so. I don't see much point in a US/Pakistan alliance these days...
I think Pakistan had important oil pipelines, but am not at all sure
I think you mean pariahs not paragons. Paragon means perfect.
I was being quite sarcastic.
netanyahu needs Israel to have more enemies so that he can maintain a stranglehold on power indefinitely. basic fascism
Whaaaaat
Is Israel bombing Russian airbases now?
Is this a permission versus forgiveness example?
Of course, now that Ukraine asked for permission and NATO (not just the US) said "no," if they deliberately attack that's extremely bad.