I mean it is expensive, it's just the amount required for a balloon is insignificant and thus seems cheap.
As a diver who uses helium I can tell you it is, compared to air, so much more expensive they actually charge me for it (rather than just rolled into the cost of a dive) - to the sum of about $300 a dive - depending on depth.
Reducing the amount of narcotic gases in your mix so you don't act like a drunk idiot when in a life threatening situation.
Those narcotic gases are nitrogen and oxygen (although there's only so little oxygen you can have....and also only so much!)
Edit: extra info: oxygen and nitrogen are narcotic at depth, nitrogen is better understood and so often we talk about nitrogen narcosis, which tends to start hitting people after about 30m, but each person reacts different and to different degrees at different deaths. I personally notice it at about 50m or so. If I was more relaxed while diving it'd probably hit me sooner.
Ah very interesting, and yes theoretically I believe. Some people are experimenting with other gases due to the price and low availability of Helium.
Rebreathers are becoming a lot more accessible these days and so are making dives much cheaper, but they're still $20k so it takes a while to recoup the cost.
Privatization seems like a really bad idea to me. Helium is non-renewable resource. Privatization is about being 'efficient' at maximising profits. Do you think the people / companies that own the helium reserves are going to be interested in keeping helium available for centuries in the future? I'd say probably not.
For a profit based company, the only motivation to preserve the helium for future use is that maybe it will be worth a lot more money in the future. But there are two big problems with that. Firstly, the timescale is likely to be too long for the profit to be of interest. And secondly, the main reason the price would go up is scarcity; and that scarcity will come sooner if the helium is wasted in the short term. (Unless one company actually has a monopoly on helium, in which case they can create artificial scarcity by just not selling it. But that would obviously be bad for other reasons.)
The thing with helium though is that it's already privatized. The geologic formations that trap helium from uranium and thorium decay are the exact formations that trap fossil fuels, particularly natural gas. Whether it's worth it to capture that helium is purely market driven by private interests. Most of it is just off gassed into space instead of separated. All that government production has amounted to is making helium cheap enough to put in balloons and use on wasteful cryo applications with no recovery mechanism like it was subsidized, making separating it from natural gas uneconomical. Increasing the price would decrease the monumental waste we already do.
The alternative is to use extremely limited quantities of gas crucial for MRIs, chip making, metallurgy, and a few other high tech applications. But hey, pretty balloons.
When I was a kid, Dave Berry had a column where he made fun of the US Strategic Helium Reserve. This taught me an important lesson: when people make fun of what seems like government waste, 75% of the time it turns out to be really important. Not always, but you should look into it more.
When I was in school decades ago, my science teacher brought in a big balloon filled with hydrogen and lit the string on fire without telling us that it was filled with hydrogen.
I could feel the explosion in my bones. It was neat.
Mylar balloons should be outlawed. They get sent free and land on power lines WAY too often. Over a thousand mylar balloon caused power outages are recorded in just Southern California alone in a typical year. The cost of repairing the damage might even exceed the revenue of mylar balloon sales.
I mean too much Helium isn’t a problem. It’s one of the few (only?) elements that will just disappear if you don’t do anything with it.
It’s light enough that it rises to the very tip top of the earth’s atmosphere and is then stripped away by solar radiation. That’s why is a depleting natural resource, not because it’s burned or used or anything, but because it just escapes.
At the height of the French Revolution, he was charged with tax fraud and selling adulterated tobacco, and was guillotined despite appeals to spare his life in recognition of his contributions to science. A year and a half later, he was exonerated by the French government.
The amount of helium produced is truly miniscule, in the order of a few cubic centimeters. They'll just pump it into the ground somewhere, assuming we ever get fusion working
You don't have to pump it anywhere. Capturing helium is actually the hard part. It's very adept at sneaking through small cracks and flying off into space. Earth's gravity cannot contain it(if it could it would be a gas giant) and pretty much all of it comes from primordial uranium decaying and getting caught in geological features by chance.
Yep that's all true, but they'll pump it into the ground anyways because "venting nuclear fusion byproducts into the atmosphere" is going to go down really poorly with the "I hate and fear the things I don't understand""anti-nuclear" crowd.
Well, the half lives of the stuff that produces helium are generally above 500 million years so we'll still be making more of it for a very long time, but the reserves we've found trapped in geologic formations certainly are limited. /s
77 replies
Given its scarcity, helium should be more expensive, to the point where filling party balloons with it is decadent profligacy.
I mean it is expensive, it's just the amount required for a balloon is insignificant and thus seems cheap.
As a diver who uses helium I can tell you it is, compared to air, so much more expensive they actually charge me for it (rather than just rolled into the cost of a dive) - to the sum of about $300 a dive - depending on depth.
What is helium used for when diving?
Reducing the amount of narcotic gases in your mix so you don't act like a drunk idiot when in a life threatening situation.
Those narcotic gases are nitrogen and oxygen (although there's only so little oxygen you can have....and also only so much!)
Edit: extra info: oxygen and nitrogen are narcotic at depth, nitrogen is better understood and so often we talk about nitrogen narcosis, which tends to start hitting people after about 30m, but each person reacts different and to different degrees at different deaths. I personally notice it at about 50m or so. If I was more relaxed while diving it'd probably hit me sooner.
Was that supposed to say depths?
Yes. Yes it was.
I've seen enough of YouTuber, Scary Interesting, to believe that either word would work!
A fellow cave diving accident creepypasta enjoyer
Awesome thank you!
Most welcome! I can talk endlessly about diving so welcome the question.
I added an edit with some more information incase you're more curious.
Are there other gasses that could be used. E.g some of the noble gasses like argon or neon?
Ah very interesting, and yes theoretically I believe. Some people are experimenting with other gases due to the price and low availability of Helium.
Rebreathers are becoming a lot more accessible these days and so are making dives much cheaper, but they're still $20k so it takes a while to recoup the cost.
https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argox
Hydrogen is used at extreme depths, but isn't so good at moderate depths, and has its own issues, like being flammable as all fuck
Good news everyone! Our national helium reserves have been privatized! Expect rising helium prices soon.
Privatization seems like a really bad idea to me. Helium is non-renewable resource. Privatization is about being 'efficient' at maximising profits. Do you think the people / companies that own the helium reserves are going to be interested in keeping helium available for centuries in the future? I'd say probably not.
For a profit based company, the only motivation to preserve the helium for future use is that maybe it will be worth a lot more money in the future. But there are two big problems with that. Firstly, the timescale is likely to be too long for the profit to be of interest. And secondly, the main reason the price would go up is scarcity; and that scarcity will come sooner if the helium is wasted in the short term. (Unless one company actually has a monopoly on helium, in which case they can create artificial scarcity by just not selling it. But that would obviously be bad for other reasons.)
The thing with helium though is that it's already privatized. The geologic formations that trap helium from uranium and thorium decay are the exact formations that trap fossil fuels, particularly natural gas. Whether it's worth it to capture that helium is purely market driven by private interests. Most of it is just off gassed into space instead of separated. All that government production has amounted to is making helium cheap enough to put in balloons and use on wasteful cryo applications with no recovery mechanism like it was subsidized, making separating it from natural gas uneconomical. Increasing the price would decrease the monumental waste we already do.
https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article/60/12/10/413018/Helium-scarcity-blamed-on-waste
We should go back to filling them with hydrogen.
What could go wrong?
I mean other than that...
Would make for more exciting birthday parties.
Seems more like a gender reveal party sort of thing.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/gender-reveal-explosion-new-hampshire-trnd/index.html
The alternative is to use extremely limited quantities of gas crucial for MRIs, chip making, metallurgy, and a few other high tech applications. But hey, pretty balloons.
^(The^ ^store^ ^was^ ^just^ ^out^ ^of^ ^helium.)^
Only a matter of time before they can't get any because we wasted such a limited resource on vanity instead of the pursuit of science.
Perspective my dude. An insignificant small amount is spent on vanity.
I've used more helium on a single dive than I've ever used in balloons in my entire life.
At least you spent yours on something scientific in nature.
At a stretch perhaps, but it's more recreational - I liken it to going to visit a castle, or going on a safari.....just underwater!
When I was a kid, Dave Berry had a column where he made fun of the US Strategic Helium Reserve. This taught me an important lesson: when people make fun of what seems like government waste, 75% of the time it turns out to be really important. Not always, but you should look into it more.
Yeah, there's areas where it's surprisingly hard for laypeople to tell apart "mostly useless" and "saves lives on a daily basis".
Oh the huge manatee!
Am I missing a joke? Airships used hydrogen gas
Specific airships made by a specific country that had no access to helium...
Not exclusively, hydrogen being lighter and cheaper meant it was still sometimes used when helium could have been.
wasn't that just the flammable lining?
When I was in school decades ago, my science teacher brought in a big balloon filled with hydrogen and lit the string on fire without telling us that it was filled with hydrogen.
I could feel the explosion in my bones. It was neat.
I’m not sure you could do that in schools today.
There will absolutely still be a customer that takes a balloon from behind the sign and asks for it to be filled up in the store.
I think you just summoned an Elder God.
"I̡̖̝͔̯͌̄̈́ ̧̙̮̈̈́H̥̫̭͈̖̐̆̒̂̓̾A̼͚̘̦̼͂͌̇͒̏̌͝Ṽ̡̡͙͙͌́̽Ȩ̮̝̪̞͖̍͆̋͋̄̒͝ͅ ̳̙͝R̥͕̱̠̱̈̈́͜I͎͒͌̋͗̈̑͜͝S̨͙̻͍̺̟̾Ẹ̳̖̖̼̥̊̓̆Ǹ̡̳͍̏͒͛̉̃̀,̳̅̋͑ ̡̡̠̗͈́͑̌A̡̧̛̦͛̅̎̄͒͂Ṅ̨͕͈͍͎͆̑̕D̻̑̾̔̊̉͊̚ͅ ̧̳̙̳͗̈́͊͊̓͝Ḭ̻̗̻̥̙͉̀̒̂͛̈́ ̢̡̯͖̩̻͍͛D̰͔͇͉̪̆E̛̝̻͇͚̼̤͗̊̑̀͋͜M͕̯̠͎̳͌͛͐͒̋͑Ä̹̺̥̤́̓̾̕N̝͎̓̓̆͋͐D͇̺̮̠̏͊̌͐̍̚͠.͓̼̰̈́͛̈̈͊.̺͎͖̰͔̻̇̂̉̈́̌.̢̮̣͖̳͖̜́͌ ̫̰̗͋P͔͗̑͆O̳͛͌̂̎̀Ṅ̦̣͖̭Ḭ̱̖̊̂Ė̛̠̺̭̓̉Ś̞͔͍̠̟͓̦̿̈́̆"
The Eldritch God of over eccentric suburban moms is somehow more terrifying than anything Lovecraft came up with.
Fuck! How am I going to refuel this fusion reactor I brought back from the future? You can't have shit these days.
May I suggest food waste from someone's garbage can? I hear that works.
😏 ...Is there a Mrs. Fusion?
She's married to Mr. Coffee with an automatic drip
Just use hot air. Lots of that to go around.
I'm afraid it's already in use by politicians.
I could have sworn they were hot air generators
It's endlessly recycled.
Mylar balloons should be outlawed. They get sent free and land on power lines WAY too often. Over a thousand mylar balloon caused power outages are recorded in just Southern California alone in a typical year. The cost of repairing the damage might even exceed the revenue of mylar balloon sales.
Meh, Argon is fine. Although what you said would be kind of funny.
why don't we just bring a shitload back from saturn or something
Nobody's stopping you!
Dont you tell me what i can do!!
I double dog dare you
I really wonder what power plants will do with the helium once they get fusion working. Maybe a balloon business on the side isn't such a bad idea.
I mean too much Helium isn’t a problem. It’s one of the few (only?) elements that will just disappear if you don’t do anything with it.
It’s light enough that it rises to the very tip top of the earth’s atmosphere and is then stripped away by solar radiation. That’s why is a depleting natural resource, not because it’s burned or used or anything, but because it just escapes.
Edit: seems I was wrong about the escape mechanism for helium, it seems the primary mechanism is polar wind escape.
Also, hydrogen can also apparently escape from the Earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape
http://faculty.washington.edu/dcatling/Catling2009_SciAm.pdf
Goodness
In a perfect world stick it in a secondary reactor and make lithium. But that's obviously even further off than hydrogen fusion.
An MRI scanner in every home!
It takes a lot to get those working and stay running. I am one of the guys that supplies it. Well over 100 liters to even start it.
Dayum. How often do they need refilling? With rebco magnets out there, surprised we're not using more ln2 instead.
Maybe just older machines?
I supply a university with many labs. I route 30 trucks a day. Trends are there. But I'm guessing about once a month? Per lab?
The amount of helium produced is truly miniscule, in the order of a few cubic centimeters. They'll just pump it into the ground somewhere, assuming we ever get fusion working
You don't have to pump it anywhere. Capturing helium is actually the hard part. It's very adept at sneaking through small cracks and flying off into space. Earth's gravity cannot contain it(if it could it would be a gas giant) and pretty much all of it comes from primordial uranium decaying and getting caught in geological features by chance.
Yep that's all true, but they'll pump it into the ground anyways because "venting nuclear fusion byproducts into the atmosphere" is going to go down really poorly with the
"I hate and fear the things I don't understand""anti-nuclear" crowd.Brought to you by big hydrogen.
Good thing I finally finished voice training and no longer need Helium to pass 👍
nice keming on that one
Don't you mean "outlaw α-decay" instead?
I just work here, sir. I'm not a scientician.
We also need to end road work while were at it. Enough is enough!!
not only are these plastic bags shit and the people finding joy in in imbeciles, but helium doesnt grow on plants. it is limited.
Counterargument: everything is limited, and all joyful people are imbeciles to some extent
fair
Well, the half lives of the stuff that produces helium are generally above 500 million years so we'll still be making more of it for a very long time, but the reserves we've found trapped in geologic formations certainly are limited. /s