The moneyed class wanted a way to collect interest for their moneylending, but as “good Christians/Catholics” usury was Biblically forbidden. ‘Do good unto your brother in faith’ etc
Jews provided a convenient workaround for that restriction. And bigots spun that into a global conspiracy.
Oh for sure and, as I imagine you know too, for me, the saddest part is, if their religion were ever found to be true, none of these work around they think they found would work.
From my understanding, Jews don't believe that things like this are loopholes. They believe that, God's law being perfect, they were intended features of Jewish life. Then again, you have so many different sects of Judaism (like you do with Christianity) that you don't get a clear-cut consensus on issues like this across the whole religion.
I think it was Mormon teens that started "soaking". It was decided by them that sex wasn't actually sex unless you were thrusting back and fourth. Just sticking it in and not moving was fine.
Then, logically, it's still not sex so long as you aren't the ones trying to move while you're soaking, so if a third friend happened to be bouncing on the bed and it was causing the motion of sex, that's still OK too.
Sadly, one of the big takeaways here is that "christians cannot be trusted". The catholics did it to them, and so did the protestants and I'd even say the russian orthodoxes, disguised as some twisted mockery of an atheist government that was the Soviet Union.
EDIT: anyone remember how Stalin studied to be a priest in the orthodox church?
This is not how it works. There is no much Jewish people being billionaire than from white or Christians communities.
The medieval assignation to moneylender was not a privilege : this was a convenient way for Christians to get rid of their debt in killing every jews in town. This how big project have been financed, like cathedrals.
Furthermore, money is not influence or power, army and means or productions are. And Jewish were precisely forbidden to have both. So they could be threat by force or discriminate by laws.
Jewish are note the exception, the large majority of us are part of the work force. In the beginning of the 20th century, lots of the jewish proletariat is organized as such (like in the Bund) or in another organization (Anarchist, Bolschevik, Social-democrats). Not because there is "a plan" but because of the rise of nationalism (and the threat of pogroms) and because there more precarious than the majority of the workers (sometimes because of discrimination, like in the Yiddishland, or because their family have been dispossessed).
After WWII, the part of proletariat in the Jewisch communities plummet, because their where in first line during the extermination. Even before nazis, other movement attack our people, organization and struggles, like the Endeck in Polonia.
I understand that those posts are made to refute antisemitism, but those premises are wrong, and is part of the antisemitic propaganda
Did you just say the reason Jewish people are wealthy is because the holocaust killed the poor ones?
Paragraphs don’t make what you just wrote true.
Trying to make anti-semitism about workers rights is you trying to co-opt the very real persecution of a people for your own aims and it’s fucking gross.
I think he means the pogroms that used to happen when everyone owed the jewish bankers a bunch of money. Easiest thing was to drive them out of town or kill them instead of paying them back.
His comment seems mostly true, just bad english has his conclusion a bit muddled.
Please do not over interpret if you have not understand. I'm sorry if my English is not enough.
I began my post in saying that it's wrong to said that Jewish peoples are wealthy.
I may not have underline enough how much the precarity threat Jewish communities before this period. In the Yiddishland (where Jews were forced to live in the Russian Empire ), workers earn the third of the wage of workers in France or Germany. 20% of people have to rely on charity to live.
Saying that there is less precarity after the extermination is not saying that people are wealthy, or that this is a good thing.
It wasn't that they were forced to work as money lenders, it was that their religion did not prohibit it whereas Muslims and early Christians were not allowed to charge interest on loaned money.
I mean, Jews were legally barred from most professions in much of Europe. If you can't be an artisan, a retainer, or a peasant farmer, not sure how many more viable options there are for making a Medieval living.
So, you ban a group of people from most professions. You exclusively allow them to work in another profession. And, it's a group of people that share a religion, so they intermarry and attend religious services together.
It's a real mystery why so many of them work in the same profession, isn't it!
Incidentally, this also explains why there are so many jews in Hollywood. Being a populist entertainer (like vaudeville) was one of the careers you could pursue as a jew in the late 1800s / early 1900s. When radio and movies first started, there were no incumbents who could refuse to allow jews into the business. Hollywood itself existed because it was a way to try to get out of the range of people trying to enforce Thomas Edison's patents. I'd imagine it wasn't just Edison's patents that they got away from, but all the existing power structures that kept jews out of jobs.
For the majority of history that's been the norm. Only in more recent times, with the advent of widespread tertiary education people are more likely to choose their own path as opposed to going into the family business.
Back then, pretty much everyone had. If your dad is a shit shoveler, then you're also a shit shoveler. Cause unless you find someone else to let you be their apprentice, your parents are the only ones who are gonna pass on any knowledge of a trade. Plus, your dad already got the shovel and the cart, and that's an investment!
But the meme is specifically about historical events, not modern day. And you also need to take into account that with the case of "top 1%", they often still pass on the family business to their children, even in modern days.
A better question, more in line with the logic of the meme, in the modern age would be "of those people whos parents own wildly successful businesses, how many of you work in the family firm?"
How many of you have the same job that your parents have?
Yes, Mister Smith, can you imagine having the same job as your parents? Mrs. Baker and Mr. Clark come see this fool who thinks that jobs were passed down in families. Mr. Cooper, you're not going to want to miss this either. Same with you Ms. Parker and Mr. Bailey. Mr. Chapman, Miss Hunter and Mr. Knight too, you won't want to miss this.
6
"Isn't it funny there are so many Jews in the only sectors we let them work in?" - Most intelligent historical antisemite | Spyke
35 replies
The moneyed class wanted a way to collect interest for their moneylending, but as “good Christians/Catholics” usury was Biblically forbidden. ‘Do good unto your brother in faith’ etc
Jews provided a convenient workaround for that restriction. And bigots spun that into a global conspiracy.
That's wild, I had no idea.
"Its not usury, if we call it interest because our God is a moron."
Christians apparently.
All the Abrahamic religions have these hilarious workarounds, like just leaving your oven on all Sabbath to avoid using a machine
Oh for sure and, as I imagine you know too, for me, the saddest part is, if their religion were ever found to be true, none of these work around they think they found would work.
Lol I like to imagine the God being like "oh you little scamp I didn't think of that one!"
From my understanding, Jews don't believe that things like this are loopholes. They believe that, God's law being perfect, they were intended features of Jewish life. Then again, you have so many different sects of Judaism (like you do with Christianity) that you don't get a clear-cut consensus on issues like this across the whole religion.
I mean yeah, of course any religious folks engaging in shenanigans would shape the narrative to justify it.
Like this is just hilarious
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KosherSwitch
But as you say, there is no consensus, as seen in the article.
I think it was Mormon teens that started "soaking". It was decided by them that sex wasn't actually sex unless you were thrusting back and fourth. Just sticking it in and not moving was fine.
Then, logically, it's still not sex so long as you aren't the ones trying to move while you're soaking, so if a third friend happened to be bouncing on the bed and it was causing the motion of sex, that's still OK too.
For all his omniscience, God never understood the time value of money.
Yeah, that's the part I never understood.
"Let's make Jews only merchants and bankers"
"Why are so many rich persons jewish???"
It just shows again: being hateful disables your cognitive functions.
Dumb as fucking rocks, it is. But I guess no one ever accused racists of being too smart.
Sadly, one of the big takeaways here is that "christians cannot be trusted". The catholics did it to them, and so did the protestants and I'd even say the russian orthodoxes, disguised as some twisted mockery of an atheist government that was the Soviet Union.
EDIT: anyone remember how Stalin studied to be a priest in the orthodox church?
This is not how it works. There is no much Jewish people being billionaire than from white or Christians communities. The medieval assignation to moneylender was not a privilege : this was a convenient way for Christians to get rid of their debt in killing every jews in town. This how big project have been financed, like cathedrals.
Furthermore, money is not influence or power, army and means or productions are. And Jewish were precisely forbidden to have both. So they could be threat by force or discriminate by laws.
Jewish are note the exception, the large majority of us are part of the work force. In the beginning of the 20th century, lots of the jewish proletariat is organized as such (like in the Bund) or in another organization (Anarchist, Bolschevik, Social-democrats). Not because there is "a plan" but because of the rise of nationalism (and the threat of pogroms) and because there more precarious than the majority of the workers (sometimes because of discrimination, like in the Yiddishland, or because their family have been dispossessed).
After WWII, the part of proletariat in the Jewisch communities plummet, because their where in first line during the extermination. Even before nazis, other movement attack our people, organization and struggles, like the Endeck in Polonia.
I understand that those posts are made to refute antisemitism, but those premises are wrong, and is part of the antisemitic propaganda
Did you just say the reason Jewish people are wealthy is because the holocaust killed the poor ones?
Paragraphs don’t make what you just wrote true.
Trying to make anti-semitism about workers rights is you trying to co-opt the very real persecution of a people for your own aims and it’s fucking gross.
I think he means the pogroms that used to happen when everyone owed the jewish bankers a bunch of money. Easiest thing was to drive them out of town or kill them instead of paying them back.
His comment seems mostly true, just bad english has his conclusion a bit muddled.
The plight of the Jewish people being a workers rights thing is what I’m getting at.
It’s a way to remove the cause of antisemitism and pretend it doesn’t exist.
My point specifically is that the argument to lump the Jewish people in and the holocaust in as a class struggle is icky.
They discussed another symptom of antisemitism that existed long before what they’re describing took place.
Please do not over interpret if you have not understand. I'm sorry if my English is not enough.
I began my post in saying that it's wrong to said that Jewish peoples are wealthy.
I may not have underline enough how much the precarity threat Jewish communities before this period. In the Yiddishland (where Jews were forced to live in the Russian Empire ), workers earn the third of the wage of workers in France or Germany. 20% of people have to rely on charity to live. Saying that there is less precarity after the extermination is not saying that people are wealthy, or that this is a good thing.
It wasn't that they were forced to work as money lenders, it was that their religion did not prohibit it whereas Muslims and early Christians were not allowed to charge interest on loaned money.
I mean, Jews were legally barred from most professions in much of Europe. If you can't be an artisan, a retainer, or a peasant farmer, not sure how many more viable options there are for making a Medieval living.
So, you ban a group of people from most professions. You exclusively allow them to work in another profession. And, it's a group of people that share a religion, so they intermarry and attend religious services together.
It's a real mystery why so many of them work in the same profession, isn't it!
Incidentally, this also explains why there are so many jews in Hollywood. Being a populist entertainer (like vaudeville) was one of the careers you could pursue as a jew in the late 1800s / early 1900s. When radio and movies first started, there were no incumbents who could refuse to allow jews into the business. Hollywood itself existed because it was a way to try to get out of the range of people trying to enforce Thomas Edison's patents. I'd imagine it wasn't just Edison's patents that they got away from, but all the existing power structures that kept jews out of jobs.
You can be forced into a role by society and use that position to leverage privilege. Just look at the Irish becoming cops in the US
Doesn't have to be mutually exclusive 🤷🏽♂️
Next step is talking about "Rootless cosmopolitans" and "Labor aristocracy"
How many of you have the same job that your parents have?
Just arguing the logic of this meme.
For the majority of history that's been the norm. Only in more recent times, with the advent of widespread tertiary education people are more likely to choose their own path as opposed to going into the family business.
I agree. Its more or less my point.
Oh ok, I thought you were arguing against it, my apologies.
Back then, pretty much everyone had. If your dad is a shit shoveler, then you're also a shit shoveler. Cause unless you find someone else to let you be their apprentice, your parents are the only ones who are gonna pass on any knowledge of a trade. Plus, your dad already got the shovel and the cart, and that's an investment!
I agree but what does not translate to modern days. This is my point actually
But the meme is specifically about historical events, not modern day. And you also need to take into account that with the case of "top 1%", they often still pass on the family business to their children, even in modern days.
A better question, more in line with the logic of the meme, in the modern age would be "of those people whos parents own wildly successful businesses, how many of you work in the family firm?"
I'm not fuckin' legally bound to a profession because of my ethnicity or religion.
Grandfather was a factory worker. Mother was a factory worker. I'm a clerical worker.
As anyone with a parent in a specialized trade can tell you, having connections and a ready educator is a huge advantage in getting into that trade.
Banking requires capital. Guess what families tend to pass down?
Family businesses, and professions, were MUCH more important in the pre-modern age.
Yes, Mister Smith, can you imagine having the same job as your parents? Mrs. Baker and Mr. Clark come see this fool who thinks that jobs were passed down in families. Mr. Cooper, you're not going to want to miss this either. Same with you Ms. Parker and Mr. Bailey. Mr. Chapman, Miss Hunter and Mr. Knight too, you won't want to miss this.