I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux-
That's the problem, though: a lot of it isn't GNU, specifically because GNU stuff is GPLv3 and would thus stop the smart TV and IoT device makers from Tivoizing everything all to Hell. Most of that stuff is running bastardized Linux, not GNU/Linux!
A name is just a simple reference to a system composed of interrelated and essential OS components:
Kernel, windowing system, networking tools, virtual memory, user interfaces, the list goes on…
Yes GNU is an essential suite of tools but so is X (or Wayland) and many other unnamed yet critical subsystems.
Now GPL licensing on the other hand, THAT is a foundational precept to FOSS that deserves sole credit back to a single project.
The NT kernel in isolation is apparently quite "ok", from what i have heard of it. It's the spyware, malware, driver crap ("windows") running on/using it which is unquestionably totally fucked and disgusting. If they were to FOSS the NT kernel, I could maybe support an such endeavor.
I was talking to my dad about my job and how people don't know how to use Linux. He said "Yeah, nobody uses that UNIX stuff anymore."
Then I pointed out that his phone and his computer both run flavors of UNIX, since he's been using Apple products since I made him switch by not supporting his issues with Windows, and that most of the websites and apps he's using are running Linux on the backend.
And what always gets lost in these discussions is if that old Unix stuff was so amazingly good that we should automatically assume Linux is inferior for not doing it. Even though all the old Unix vendors are basically dead now and replaced by Linux. That might have happened for a reason.
I'm running Fedora 40 Atomic Budgie on a little micro desktop for fun right now. IMO, it's not quite ready for prime time just yet. I do appreciate the simple ability to roll back at boot if something does go wrong. I've done it once after an update and it was nice. The next day a new update was pushed to fix the error in the update and on I went on my merry way.
On the other hand, there is a general sluggishness and a feeling of malaise to the system as time goes on. It's not a show stopper. But it does not spark joy either. Budgie ran a whole lot faster and smoother as a "standard" install. And I'm not installing a lot of extra software and they are all installed as Flatpaks or I have 3 pieces installed as appImages. So it's all just updates.
The real test will come when Fedora shifts from 40 to 41 and I upgrade the distro. Will it be as "immutable" as they brag about.
Pfff the distro itself isn't affected by the drama really. The community is. However in a few years nobody will remember really. Maybe the forks are still around then.
Yeah but the anti-woke type are hardly ever too mentally stable, so who knows when the 'saving our Christian distro from the sinners' update will drop.
That or the old devs never come back and the new ones ride it right into the shitter, either way its definitely uncertain times when you lose most of your main devs
Thats like saying your favorite type of cheese is American, sure its technically cheese but its so processed and removed from cheese that its just not the same as mozzarella.
I made grilled cheese for my father in law in India where it was not insignificantly difficult to find "American" bread and processed cheese. It's comfort food that crosses borders and cultures.
Edit: You United Statesians got that weird cheese thing right and I will die on that hill.
Wish they didn't. DIY opnsense/pfsense boxes are much harder for finding compatible NICs because they're on BSD. Conversely, used enterprise-level NICs often have better drivers on Linux than Windows.
usually if it doesn't have good working drivers on BSD, there's a good reason and it's probably better that you didn't use that hardware in the first place. if it was a well-established, reliable adapter then typically it would already have a driver.
How about an HP NC523SFP? Keep in mind, this is HP enterprise stuff, not consumer level. Dual SFP+, pulled from server hardware. Doesn't work on FreeBSD.
But you said FreeBSD... opnsense is not the same as FreeBSD proper even though it is based on it... for example they don't include all the drivers that FreeBSD has... like qlxgb. Not saying you're moving the goalposts but I feel like this may be an unfair conclusion being drawn.
Huh, I don't follow supercomputers very often. I didn't realize in the last 10 years UNIX dropped off the map of supercomputers entirely in favor of Linux.
Actual desktops are going the way of the dodo for the mass market and Linux netbooks are quite popular. With Microsoft's current strategy of making a product that is worse and worse for low powered devices, I honestly think it'll happen sooner, except for businesses.
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux-
That's the problem, though: a lot of it isn't GNU, specifically because GNU stuff is GPLv3 and would thus stop the smart TV and IoT device makers from Tivoizing everything all to Hell. Most of that stuff is running bastardized Linux, not GNU/Linux!
Sacrilinux - or as I've recently taken to calling it, sacrilege + Lin.....
There are a number of Linux distributions that do not have a GNU user space, so no.
Can you name some?
Off the top of my head:
Thank you Mr. Stallman!
A name is just a simple reference to a system composed of interrelated and essential OS components: Kernel, windowing system, networking tools, virtual memory, user interfaces, the list goes on…
Yes GNU is an essential suite of tools but so is X (or Wayland) and many other unnamed yet critical subsystems.
Now GPL licensing on the other hand, THAT is a foundational precept to FOSS that deserves sole credit back to a single project.
🤣
The only one of those that consistently runs GNU/Linux is supercomputers,
All my servers run on Debian
Oh, right, there's servers there too.
Do you correct everyone who says Windows instead of Microsoft Windows NT?
woosh
The NT kernel in isolation is apparently quite "ok", from what i have heard of it. It's the spyware, malware, driver crap ("windows") running on/using it which is unquestionably totally fucked and disgusting. If they were to FOSS the NT kernel, I could maybe support an such endeavor.
I was talking to my dad about my job and how people don't know how to use Linux. He said "Yeah, nobody uses that UNIX stuff anymore."
Then I pointed out that his phone and his computer both run flavors of UNIX, since he's been using Apple products since I made him switch by not supporting his issues with Windows, and that most of the websites and apps he's using are running Linux on the backend.
Well, he is correct. Linux is not UNIX. It is UNIX-like system. And Android is abomination.
I think macOS is actually Unix certified. It at least was at one point.
At one point many years ago. BSD is true UNIX btw.
I looked it up. macOS is still unix certified.
BSD is usually not unix certified, so has to refer to itself as unix like.
What is and isn't unix is kind of up to what definition you're working with (pedigree, legally, practically).
And what always gets lost in these discussions is if that old Unix stuff was so amazingly good that we should automatically assume Linux is inferior for not doing it. Even though all the old Unix vendors are basically dead now and replaced by Linux. That might have happened for a reason.
Wait, really? Not POSIX? Huh
Also another reason I doubt current version macos is certified is:
"Because it's an expensive and lengthy process. And every version will need to be re-certified."
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
Thanks. SCO is still going?
The main difference between being unix certified or not is being willing to pay for it. That's pretty much it.
then what did he say after that?
Ha, imagine an alternate universe where crowdstrike took down people's refrigerators.
That’s how we save Pied Piper.
https://youtu.be/BnKpNVHw-TQ
That would be so funny 😂
Please don't jinx that. I really don't want my fridge to stop working because of crowdstrike
Let's face it: if you have a refrigerator that is connected to the Internet, you probably deserve it. :P
^Disclaimer:^ ^Obviously^ ^not^ ^of^ ^course.^ ^I'm^ ^just^ ^making^ ^a^ ^joke^ ^because^ ^IoT^ ^kitchen^ ^appliances^ ^are^ ^stupid.)^
It happened to a bunch of Linux servers a couple months back but nobody cared and so Crowdstrike didn't change anything so it happened again.
Lots of routers are BSD.
Yep.
I came here to make a 'my router uses BSD btw' joke.
PfSense!
Opnsense
OPNsense > pfsense
Nonsense
Fair point....
True. I use arch btw
Woah, you are old. I use nixos btw
Woah, you are young. I use Slackware btw
Ahhh, I remember my days of wearing the sackcloth and ashes of Slack. I would go back to that purity. But I'm now old and far too lazy.
Since Flatpaks are a thing now, it's almost like one of those newfangled immutable distros:
I'm running Fedora 40 Atomic Budgie on a little micro desktop for fun right now. IMO, it's not quite ready for prime time just yet. I do appreciate the simple ability to roll back at boot if something does go wrong. I've done it once after an update and it was nice. The next day a new update was pushed to fix the error in the update and on I went on my merry way.
On the other hand, there is a general sluggishness and a feeling of malaise to the system as time goes on. It's not a show stopper. But it does not spark joy either. Budgie ran a whole lot faster and smoother as a "standard" install. And I'm not installing a lot of extra software and they are all installed as Flatpaks or I have 3 pieces installed as appImages. So it's all just updates.
The real test will come when Fedora shifts from 40 to 41 and I upgrade the distro. Will it be as "immutable" as they brag about.
Yikes with all the nix drama going on?
I use a custom distro dixos btw
Pfff the distro itself isn't affected by the drama really. The community is. However in a few years nobody will remember really. Maybe the forks are still around then.
Yeah but the anti-woke type are hardly ever too mentally stable, so who knows when the 'saving our Christian distro from the sinners' update will drop.
That or the old devs never come back and the new ones ride it right into the shitter, either way its definitely uncertain times when you lose most of your main devs
Then don't install Temple OS.
Nixos: temple run and method edition
Actually it's all Java
Oracle wishes. We’re smarter than that.
Sun shines. No, other Sun.
Writing in scala doesn't make you smart
What about lua?
I got in trouble in a discussion about the most popular Linux distro when I said it's obviously Android.
Jim: “what’s your favorite district” Mike: “Android of course” Jim:
LOL Favourite? Jury is out. Most popular? Android all the way.
Thats like saying your favorite type of cheese is American, sure its technically cheese but its so processed and removed from cheese that its just not the same as mozzarella.
I made grilled cheese for my father in law in India where it was not insignificantly difficult to find "American" bread and processed cheese. It's comfort food that crosses borders and cultures.
Edit: You United Statesians got that weird cheese thing right and I will die on that hill.
Routers often run on BSD
Wish they didn't. DIY opnsense/pfsense boxes are much harder for finding compatible NICs because they're on BSD. Conversely, used enterprise-level NICs often have better drivers on Linux than Windows.
usually if it doesn't have good working drivers on BSD, there's a good reason and it's probably better that you didn't use that hardware in the first place. if it was a well-established, reliable adapter then typically it would already have a driver.
How about an HP NC523SFP? Keep in mind, this is HP enterprise stuff, not consumer level. Dual SFP+, pulled from server hardware. Doesn't work on FreeBSD.
Google is telling me that's not true and that the qlxgb driver for it has existed for years
But you said FreeBSD... opnsense is not the same as FreeBSD proper even though it is based on it... for example they don't include all the drivers that FreeBSD has... like qlxgb. Not saying you're moving the goalposts but I feel like this may be an unfair conclusion being drawn.
Huh, I don't follow supercomputers very often. I didn't realize in the last 10 years UNIX dropped off the map of supercomputers entirely in favor of Linux.
Pretty cool.
I worked in resales for super computers about 10 yrs ago. For x86 based designs we flogged red hat
it's still mostly red hat even for arm, though Cray (who still supply a lot of machines here in the UK) ship a horribly butchered version of SLES
Place I worked at had 1 other architecture it was risc but not arm
The ones that aren’t BSD-based, anyway, like for instance pfSense.
Or MacOS, or the PlayStation OS.
Netflix and whatsapp servers
And 4.5% of the desktops.
At this rate it should reach 25% of them by 2043.
Actual desktops are going the way of the dodo for the mass market and Linux netbooks are quite popular. With Microsoft's current strategy of making a product that is worse and worse for low powered devices, I honestly think it'll happen sooner, except for businesses.
Linux
Looming In Networks Until eXtinction