People in China and Hong Kong can, actually. Presumably your understanding of the Tiananmen riots is about as garbage as almost every other Westerner’s.
No guys, it wasn't an deadly conflict between protestors and an authoritarian government that resulted in hundreds of deaths!! It was... uh... okay it was exactly that, but the government wasn't that bad because I like them.
It was very different to the generally accepted version, as some recently declassified USA diplomatic cables confirm. The official position of the US government is that there was no killing in the actual square. I was extremely surprised as well.
It was terrible, but the generally held belief that thousands of people were machine-gunned down in Tiananmen Square then run over by tanks and turned into paste and washed down the drain doesn't appear to have been the case. People swear they've seen footage of it and everything. I've said before, four dead students in Ohio was enough to be an atrocity, so I'm not trying to minimise the importance of the event.
I'm so glad you posted this. I've been looking for some of the photos of soldiers getting attacked for a long time. I commend your efforts in trying to educate people even though they won't listen.
Did it occur to you that CNN and other US corporate media might not be any more reliable now during Cold War II than they were before during Cold War I?
ok, but serious question and I'm not trying to cause conflict but an actual conversation. How do you decide what is reliable and what is not when faced with two opposing sides? I agree that just calling anything conspiracy theory is negative and not helpful. But am I to just decide that "imperial core" is bad and all other media is the "truth"?
I've gone through the links before that you've posted in the past. All I know is fucked up shit went down just like any protest of which the ruling class doesn't like. Am I just to believe your links? The "wiki" page you linked states,
The 1989 Tian'anmen Square riots (天安门事件) were a CIA-backed[1][2] attempt at a color revolution against the People's Republic of China in 1989
it just completely dismisses any complaint that was happening during the time as Carl Zha's video explains the lead up to it. It doesn't help that his reflection is from when he was 12 and living in another area. He even states at 24:70, "One of the deal(s) they made with the Chinese people is ok, you can do whatever you want as long as you don't challenge the government." He goes on to state that the reason the protests needed to stop was because of the economic collapse in the soviet union and fear of it happening in China, not because it wasn't a worthy cause or change didn't need to happen on a governmental level.
Does western media blow protests out of proportion? Absolutely, just look at the Gaza protest coverage. Seems like the state media was doing the same thing with "snipers" being the reason to shoot into occupied residential buildings and a "malfunctioning vehicle" killing 11 by running them over at the square itself. Whether it's been skewed or not, all of this just seems like brushing everything under a rug with some "normie" and America insults thrown in.
How do you decide what is reliable and what is not when faced with two opposing sides?
It ain’t easy; there’s no silver bullet.
But am I to just decide that “imperial core” is bad and all other media is the “truth”?
Of course not.
I think you’re further along in answering your own questions than the vast majority of Westerners, who take just about everything the media says about international goings-on at face value.
The only reason so many normie Americans know about the Tiananmen protests/riots in the first place is because the American propaganda machine has made them known, to be understood in the way the Council on Foreign Relations wants them to be understood.
ok, I already got and agreed with the sentiment that propaganda media is the norm for America. My question is, how are you determining what is or isn't propaganda being put forth by the media companies and articles you are presenting? Anyone can just say it's the truth because they agree with it (look at qanon and general right wing media). What makes the reporting valid to you besides it's apparent point of country origin?
Personally, I just have no clue. I know tragedies occurred and every side will skew the truth for their own perspective (this isn't even malicious sometimes, just seeing a situation play out differently i.e. police forcefully but respectfully removed citizens vs police brutalized and forced citizens to flee the area). I wasn't there, so I wont argue any specific events but I don't just inherently trust one news source over another.
My question is, how are you determining what is or isn’t propaganda being put forth by the media companies and articles you are presenting?
It's all propaganda. The term itself means pushing an agenda by propagating information. Separating fact from fiction requires following the sources any given outlet uses to support their claims. Part of the reason so many communists distrust western mainstream media so much is due to shady sourcing. A recurring issue, for example, is relying on anonymous (i.e. unverifiable) sources.
Another thing to consider when looking at this stuff is cui bono: who benefits? While a source pushing an agenda isn't necessarily presenting false information, they are inclined to frame facts in a way that fits their narrative. Which facts do they include and which do they leave out? Which facts do they emphasize and which do they minimize?
40 replies
Fuck the CCP
such brave ^very\ patriot^
Is china == CCP?
The CPC has a ~85% approval rating among the population of China, so I would say they do a pretty good job of representing the Chinese people, yes.
People in China and Hong Kong can, actually. Presumably your understanding of the Tiananmen riots is about as garbage as almost every other Westerner’s.
BTW, there isn’t a ban on Winnie-the-Pooh, either.
LOLLL
It was very different to the generally accepted version, as some recently declassified USA diplomatic cables confirm. The official position of the US government is that there was no killing in the actual square. I was extremely surprised as well.
Yes but hundreds of people still died, the precise location down to the city block is not material to the symbolic meaning of the event.
It was terrible, but the generally held belief that thousands of people were machine-gunned down in Tiananmen Square then run over by tanks and turned into paste and washed down the drain doesn't appear to have been the case. People swear they've seen footage of it and everything. I've said before, four dead students in Ohio was enough to be an atrocity, so I'm not trying to minimise the importance of the event.
I'm so glad you posted this. I've been looking for some of the photos of soldiers getting attacked for a long time. I commend your efforts in trying to educate people even though they won't listen.
https://apnews.com/article/china-beijing-tiananmen-crackdown-e5dcd3454ecb7e0ce558681da020afe0
What's the line for acceptable amount of people arrested?
Arrested for commemorating the thing that everyone in China knows about and is definitely allowed to talk about.
You sure they aren't censoring Winnie-the-Pooh comparisons?
Yes, I’m sure. You can buy Pooh-branded crap and ride Pooh-branded amusement park rides. Nobody cares.
Did it occur to you that CNN and other US corporate media might not be any more reliable now during Cold War II than they were before during Cold War I?
I said Winnie-the-Pooh comparisons to Xi, not merchandise and amusement park rides.
Shocked, I say
Have you done the most basic thing and read the wikipedia article? Is that "denial" too?
I have. No it isn't
Great, then welcome, you agree with the rest of us.
Well I agree with Wikipedia, not sure that's the same
the websites you reference make me think your into conspiracies, and probably hate america. seem like cult websites.
If it isn’t imperial core corporate or think tank media site then it’s a conspiracy theory, got it.
ok, but serious question and I'm not trying to cause conflict but an actual conversation. How do you decide what is reliable and what is not when faced with two opposing sides? I agree that just calling anything conspiracy theory is negative and not helpful. But am I to just decide that "imperial core" is bad and all other media is the "truth"?
I've gone through the links before that you've posted in the past. All I know is fucked up shit went down just like any protest of which the ruling class doesn't like. Am I just to believe your links? The "wiki" page you linked states,
it just completely dismisses any complaint that was happening during the time as Carl Zha's video explains the lead up to it. It doesn't help that his reflection is from when he was 12 and living in another area. He even states at 24:70, "One of the deal(s) they made with the Chinese people is ok, you can do whatever you want as long as you don't challenge the government." He goes on to state that the reason the protests needed to stop was because of the economic collapse in the soviet union and fear of it happening in China, not because it wasn't a worthy cause or change didn't need to happen on a governmental level.
Does western media blow protests out of proportion? Absolutely, just look at the Gaza protest coverage. Seems like the state media was doing the same thing with "snipers" being the reason to shoot into occupied residential buildings and a "malfunctioning vehicle" killing 11 by running them over at the square itself. Whether it's been skewed or not, all of this just seems like brushing everything under a rug with some "normie" and America insults thrown in.
It ain’t easy; there’s no silver bullet.
Of course not.
I think you’re further along in answering your own questions than the vast majority of Westerners, who take just about everything the media says about international goings-on at face value.
The only reason so many normie Americans know about the Tiananmen protests/riots in the first place is because the American propaganda machine has made them known, to be understood in the way the Council on Foreign Relations wants them to be understood.
ok, I already got and agreed with the sentiment that propaganda media is the norm for America. My question is, how are you determining what is or isn't propaganda being put forth by the media companies and articles you are presenting? Anyone can just say it's the truth because they agree with it (look at qanon and general right wing media). What makes the reporting valid to you besides it's apparent point of country origin?
Personally, I just have no clue. I know tragedies occurred and every side will skew the truth for their own perspective (this isn't even malicious sometimes, just seeing a situation play out differently i.e. police forcefully but respectfully removed citizens vs police brutalized and forced citizens to flee the area). I wasn't there, so I wont argue any specific events but I don't just inherently trust one news source over another.
It's all propaganda. The term itself means pushing an agenda by propagating information. Separating fact from fiction requires following the sources any given outlet uses to support their claims. Part of the reason so many communists distrust western mainstream media so much is due to shady sourcing. A recurring issue, for example, is relying on anonymous (i.e. unverifiable) sources.
Another thing to consider when looking at this stuff is cui bono: who benefits? While a source pushing an agenda isn't necessarily presenting false information, they are inclined to frame facts in a way that fits their narrative. Which facts do they include and which do they leave out? Which facts do they emphasize and which do they minimize?
Depends whether or not they agree with it. Unfortunately I think most people are like this :(
A small compliment, that’s how they get ya 😂
hate hate hate
I read the website. I notice it doesn't actually.. say anything about the event at all? It's just a list of a few logical fallacies that exist.
Go read the wikipedia article on the protests and see if you disagree with the 'trolls' after all.
Where I come from doesn't matter, the content of my arguments do. At least that's what your website would vaguely imply.