Not really. Occasionally I see someone in the comments saying that they can't reach the person they've been paying to teach them their crazy ways anymore, or that they can't find anyone who has made the coupon process work, but beyond that they seem to just persist in their crazy.
IMO if/when people snap out of it they just fade away and don't post about it. We all have our pride. These people were convinced they were so much smarter than everyone else, that's a tough pill to swallow. The same thing happens with cults and political beliefs. That's why I try to keep things light hearted and civil when debating politics. Leave wiggle room for people to come around. It's not about humiliating them, it's about seeing the light
I think many eventually do realize they've been burned and just stop showing up in these forums/groups. But you don't hear from them, just the diehards who are too deep into it and too dim to ever pick up on the fact that the SovCit movement is baseless nonsense no matter how often they're confronted with evidence of these little magical loopholes failing to work.
Exactly what I was going to say. They go all-in on the Sovereign Citizen nonsense, it fails massively for them, multiple times, every single official response is "that's not a thing", so they... continue to ask the sovcit community for more advice!? Like, come on...
I have seen a news report where they interviewed a young woman who was in a whole bunch of debt due to being sovcit and regretted it all. Her story was she was basically living a normal life, till her husband lost his job. When he couldn't find a new job and was living on welfare, he turned to sovcit. They could simply stop paying their mortgage and other bills and use all the tricks of the sovcits on Facebook to get by. This way he wouldn't need a job anymore.
His wife went along with it, not really understanding it, but trusting her husband.
Obviously this didn't end up well for either of them and the wife divorced the husband after finding out all of it was bullshit. They lost their home and had huge debts. Luckily because the woman was in a European country, the government sent someone to help her out. They helped her to consolidate all the different loans into a single loan, except for debts in relation to taxes. For the taxes a generous payment plan was provided, giving the woman a chance at a normal life instead of destroying her. The singular loan with the bank had a mortgage style payment plan, which was manageable even at a relatively low income level. She also was eligible for public housing and had a small apartment to live in.
It was unclear where the husband was, he was gone and assumed out of the country. Because they were married he left a lot of the debt for the wife to clean up.
It was really a very sad story and the woman was filled with regret. If she hadn't lived in a forgiving country, she would have had a bad ending. Not that she didn't have one anyway, but it could have been so much worse.
One of these sovcits, Chris Hauser, has a FB group I'm in where he was selling people his various nonsense, and now he literally is doing time but none of them believe it and can't understand why he won't answer their messages anymore.
I've actually seen people do things like double-down on using commas in ellipses when being told that's incorrect just out of spite. It's really amazing what people will do rather than just correct their behavior.
I'm guilty of that, I overuse commas like crazy. I'm trying to just stop using ellipsis entirely and move the content I want to say into a different sentence. It's a hard habit to break.
This wouldn't be someone doing it out of habit, this would be someone clearly doing it out of spite. Like doing it multiple times in the post in response to someone telling them that they're doing it incorrectly.
When you pause in a thought, they have time to consider how insane it sounds. So all sovcits have to remain in the fugue state of crank rambling to make sure their worldview doesn’t have any air gaps to give anyone listening a second to question what’s being said.
Text-To-Speech programs actually insert punctuation, sometimes when you don't want them to. I actually had to turn the future off because it was so annoying.
Case in point it decided to put the hyphens up there on its own, (correctly in this case) so even with punctuation switched off it still does it.
I'd like to learn how to travel in my car without actually drivimg. And also why a different word for the same thing should make a legal difference. This is dumber than flat earth shit
The UK ones (and yeah somehow there are UK ones) like to distinguish between a car and an mechanical horse. Of course a car is an mechanical horse but in their minds there is a distinction.
I think a lot of it stems from the fact that when cars first came into existence no one really quite knew how to define them, so they were often just classified as horses. For the most part this worked because back then most cars could barely go above 5 miles an hour, so there wasn't really any reason to have special laws.
Of course laws have been updated since then, but let's not take that into account.
they just think they have some kind of Konami code for real life. except it's always about stupid shit like driving. they never extend the "logic" to other crimes.
ok, so if you just commit murder can you get out of it by saying "I'm not murdering, I'm engaging in extreme hypnosis"?
same thing for when they say "I'm not a citizen of the US/didn't consent to the laws so they don't apply to me" well ok so foreigners can just come in and do whatever they want?
it's incredible how much time they put into "researching" this inane set of beliefs but waste zero seconds thinking about the implications.
If you write a whole paragraph and cant be bothered to organize your thoughts by using a single period, I can't be bothered to read it. I am going to assume you have nothing of worth to say.
Their arguments about needing a license for driving vs traveling are dumb but I can at least kind of see where they are coming from. The part about not needing insurance is what dumbfounds me. Like if a sovcit gets in a wreck do they think the person they hit will just accept a fucking coupon?
I could understand it if they are a passenger in the vehicle, but I don't understand how they can believe that operating a car doesn't count as driving.
I don't want to give credence to their bullshit but they believe that "driving" is only done commercially. So if you're operating a motor vehicle for personal errands and such you are simply a "traveler", but if you are operating the vehicle to deliver goods or services then you are a "driver".
Look, I don't want to give away too much, but don't waste time trying to untangle the tea leaves here. It's all babbling horsesh*t like so many other beliefs systems we can name. They don't understand any of this and are hoping that they can basically talk their way out of these situations. The noises that they make have no meaning, rhyme nor reason.
this is what infuriates me about sovereign citizens. they are so dumb they make you side with... you know. I don't want to say it because i just ate and want to keep the food inside.
Obviously we should be encouraging this person to refuse the papers.
By accepting the papers the private person is passively entering into a contract with the Marshalls of Mathers allowing the judge to impose sanctions because You've accepted their authority even if you didn't vomit mom's spaghetti on your sweater so the only recourse is to reject the papers and produce your writ of nonincorporation and decorporation to reinforce through habeas mentam stulta that you were clearly traveling not driving because operating a motor vehicle isn't the same as driving obviously as driving means using a golf club and operating uses a scalpel and as you were using neither, you were traveling.
A group of people who refuse to be a part of society. A group who's profile picture is the US Declaration of Independence. It is "We, the people" not "I, the person". The logic is so circular.
OP, have you ever seen a post saying "none of this works, you lied to me"?
It amazes me this lot never seem to come to the realisation none of this works.
Not really. Occasionally I see someone in the comments saying that they can't reach the person they've been paying to teach them their crazy ways anymore, or that they can't find anyone who has made the coupon process work, but beyond that they seem to just persist in their crazy.
Otherwise known as the sunk cost fallacy.
https://time.com/5347133/sunk-cost-fallacy-decisions/
I think technically he's describing survivorship bias - the ones who fail out - fail out so hard they disappear (jail)
Good point. In fact, it's a bit of both. It's a survivorship bias, but it explains the survivorship.
Sunk survivor falias.
IMO if/when people snap out of it they just fade away and don't post about it. We all have our pride. These people were convinced they were so much smarter than everyone else, that's a tough pill to swallow. The same thing happens with cults and political beliefs. That's why I try to keep things light hearted and civil when debating politics. Leave wiggle room for people to come around. It's not about humiliating them, it's about seeing the light
I was actually sitting here wondering the same thing. There’s plenty of evidence that none of this works yet they keep truckin’ along.
I think many eventually do realize they've been burned and just stop showing up in these forums/groups. But you don't hear from them, just the diehards who are too deep into it and too dim to ever pick up on the fact that the SovCit movement is baseless nonsense no matter how often they're confronted with evidence of these little magical loopholes failing to work.
That's exactly it, the ones that lose faith just quietly leave most likely. I'd have expected a few to make a dramatic exit though.
Exactly what I was going to say. They go all-in on the Sovereign Citizen nonsense, it fails massively for them, multiple times, every single official response is "that's not a thing", so they... continue to ask the sovcit community for more advice!? Like, come on...
I have seen a news report where they interviewed a young woman who was in a whole bunch of debt due to being sovcit and regretted it all. Her story was she was basically living a normal life, till her husband lost his job. When he couldn't find a new job and was living on welfare, he turned to sovcit. They could simply stop paying their mortgage and other bills and use all the tricks of the sovcits on Facebook to get by. This way he wouldn't need a job anymore. His wife went along with it, not really understanding it, but trusting her husband.
Obviously this didn't end up well for either of them and the wife divorced the husband after finding out all of it was bullshit. They lost their home and had huge debts. Luckily because the woman was in a European country, the government sent someone to help her out. They helped her to consolidate all the different loans into a single loan, except for debts in relation to taxes. For the taxes a generous payment plan was provided, giving the woman a chance at a normal life instead of destroying her. The singular loan with the bank had a mortgage style payment plan, which was manageable even at a relatively low income level. She also was eligible for public housing and had a small apartment to live in. It was unclear where the husband was, he was gone and assumed out of the country. Because they were married he left a lot of the debt for the wife to clean up.
It was really a very sad story and the woman was filled with regret. If she hadn't lived in a forgiving country, she would have had a bad ending. Not that she didn't have one anyway, but it could have been so much worse.
Hard to post from prison after all your stuff has been seized by the state.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/05/08/five-sovereign-citizens-convicted-fraud-tennessee
One of these sovcits, Chris Hauser, has a FB group I'm in where he was selling people his various nonsense, and now he literally is doing time but none of them believe it and can't understand why he won't answer their messages anymore.
Damn, they're not fucking around.
The courts are very intolerant of sovcits and paper terrorism now.
People get less than that for murder where I live.
By the time you fall for this kind of nonsense, you already have to be well and truly beyond redemption.
I’m still learning about sovcits but what do they have against punctuation?
These people are severely undereducated. There's a shockingly high number of Americans who are functionally illiterate.
It's the willfully illiterate that worry me
I've actually seen people do things like double-down on using commas in ellipses when being told that's incorrect just out of spite. It's really amazing what people will do rather than just correct their behavior.
Commas in ellipses? So like, three commas in a row instead of dots?
Exactly that. It would go something like this:
"ur all letting the mexicans take our jobs,,, all u libruls are dumb,,, u hate Trump,,,"
"I don't agree with what you're saying. Also, you're using commas where you should be using periods."
"dum librul,,,trump 2024,,, MAGA,,, get a brain moran,,,"
(And this is how I find out that Lemmy automatically converts three commas into one comma unless you tell it not to.)
I'm guilty of that, I overuse commas like crazy. I'm trying to just stop using ellipsis entirely and move the content I want to say into a different sentence. It's a hard habit to break.
This wouldn't be someone doing it out of habit, this would be someone clearly doing it out of spite. Like doing it multiple times in the post in response to someone telling them that they're doing it incorrectly.
When you pause in a thought, they have time to consider how insane it sounds. So all sovcits have to remain in the fugue state of crank rambling to make sure their worldview doesn’t have any air gaps to give anyone listening a second to question what’s being said.
Speech to text was a terrible invention
What do you mean question mark i use test to speech all the time comma and i use punctuation with no issues period
Text-To-Speech programs actually insert punctuation, sometimes when you don't want them to. I actually had to turn the future off because it was so annoying.
Case in point it decided to put the hyphens up there on its own, (correctly in this case) so even with punctuation switched off it still does it.
It's a tool of the government meant to imprison your mind? Not really sure.
"I'm traveling, not driving!"
It baffles me that they always believe that this is a valid argument. What a bunch of morons.
I'd like to learn how to travel in my car without actually drivimg. And also why a different word for the same thing should make a legal difference. This is dumber than flat earth shit
different wording is a high standard for them. they think capitalization makes a difference lol
This is the first step.
The UK ones (and yeah somehow there are UK ones) like to distinguish between a car and an mechanical horse. Of course a car is an mechanical horse but in their minds there is a distinction.
I think a lot of it stems from the fact that when cars first came into existence no one really quite knew how to define them, so they were often just classified as horses. For the most part this worked because back then most cars could barely go above 5 miles an hour, so there wasn't really any reason to have special laws.
Of course laws have been updated since then, but let's not take that into account.
they just think they have some kind of Konami code for real life. except it's always about stupid shit like driving. they never extend the "logic" to other crimes.
ok, so if you just commit murder can you get out of it by saying "I'm not murdering, I'm engaging in extreme hypnosis"?
same thing for when they say "I'm not a citizen of the US/didn't consent to the laws so they don't apply to me" well ok so foreigners can just come in and do whatever they want?
it's incredible how much time they put into "researching" this inane set of beliefs but waste zero seconds thinking about the implications.
BUT OFFICER, I USED THE MAGIC WORD!
Abracadabra I do not create joinder with you!
If you write a whole paragraph and cant be bothered to organize your thoughts by using a single period, I can't be bothered to read it. I am going to assume you have nothing of worth to say.
Yeah, but Biden stuttered once...
What's with sovcits rebelling against punctuations?
"I'm typing not writing. You only need punctuation if you're writing, officer. I saw it on YouTube."
Im typing not writing You only need punctuation if youre writing officer I saw it on YouTube
Only ARTIFICIAL PERSONS use the English language properly.
What's even worse are the quantum grammar subset of the sovereign citizen set. They have some really weird ideas about language.
They really do believe that there is a cheat code which gets them out of all responsibilities.
The words are traveling and thus exempt from rules.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Appendix_to_A_Pickle_for_the_Knowing_Ones.png
Lack of any brains
I wish we could see how they argued with the cop about the difference between driving and traveling according to them.
Videos of this conversation definitely exist online. My favourite example was a guy quoting the American constitution - to an Irish Garda Síochána.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T02QbIB3ULI
Not this sovcit but another, but the result is hilarious just the same. https://www.reddit.com/r/amibeingdetained/comments/ldlmq1/sovcit_is_travelling_not_driving_and_after_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Another part; https://www.reddit.com/r/amibeingdetained/comments/le6nuc/sovcit_is_detained/
Their arguments about needing a license for driving vs traveling are dumb but I can at least kind of see where they are coming from. The part about not needing insurance is what dumbfounds me. Like if a sovcit gets in a wreck do they think the person they hit will just accept a fucking coupon?
I could understand it if they are a passenger in the vehicle, but I don't understand how they can believe that operating a car doesn't count as driving.
I don't want to give credence to their bullshit but they believe that "driving" is only done commercially. So if you're operating a motor vehicle for personal errands and such you are simply a "traveler", but if you are operating the vehicle to deliver goods or services then you are a "driver".
I've seen an explanation of this, basically they're misreading a piece of legislation that relates to commercial drivers.
Look, I don't want to give away too much, but don't waste time trying to untangle the tea leaves here. It's all babbling horsesh*t like so many other beliefs systems we can name. They don't understand any of this and are hoping that they can basically talk their way out of these situations. The noises that they make have no meaning, rhyme nor reason.
Yes. That is exactly what they think. Which is why they get so irate on Facebook when that sort of thing does not happen.
That is one long question, not a bit of punctuation until the question mark at the end.
What level of insanity is this where I root for the cop in this case?
I mean I hate cops but I also don't think they get paid enough to deal with sovcits. Or judges or lawyers.
this is what infuriates me about sovereign citizens. they are so dumb they make you side with... you know. I don't want to say it because i just ate and want to keep the food inside.
Obviously we should be encouraging this person to refuse the papers.
By accepting the papers the private person is passively entering into a contract with the Marshalls of Mathers allowing the judge to impose sanctions because You've accepted their authority even if you didn't vomit mom's spaghetti on your sweater so the only recourse is to reject the papers and produce your writ of nonincorporation and decorporation to reinforce through habeas mentam stulta that you were clearly traveling not driving because operating a motor vehicle isn't the same as driving obviously as driving means using a golf club and operating uses a scalpel and as you were using neither, you were traveling.
I heard the last half of this in Eminem's voice
A group of people who refuse to be a part of society. A group who's profile picture is the US Declaration of Independence. It is "We, the people" not "I, the person". The logic is so circular.