These 112 House Republicans voted against Ukraine aid
- The House passed a more than $60 billion bill that provides more military aid to Ukraine.
- It's part of a larger foreign aid package that's likely to pass the Senate and be signed into law.
- 112 Republicans voted it against — the most ever, and a majority of the GOP conference.
…
Saturday's vote marked the first time the House had approved billions of dollars in Ukraine aid since December 2022, when Democrats still controlled the chamber.
In the two years since Russia's invasion, opposition to aiding Ukraine has grown from a fringe position to a majority view among House GOP lawmakers. Many argue the money should be spent domestically or that policy changes at the US-Mexico border should take precedence.
Here are the 112 House Republicans who voted against the bill.
https://www.businessinsider.com/which-house-republicans-voted-against-ukraine-russia-aid-2024-4Open linkView original on lemmy.world717
Comments226
Since rest of the thread is undirected anger without naming names, let's name names!
Find your representative here and make note if they’re on this list. They’re up for reelection two years after being elected.
So THIS is where Voronezh healthcare money went. Fuck em, please.
This should be the boarding list for the next container ship to Sochi.
For those who don't know, The New York Post was the first American media outlet that Rupert Murdoch brought back in the day. It tries to play off being 'center Right' as opposed to Fox News. Following the spin on the spin can break your neck.
When a Republican loses Rupert Murdock, things probably aren’t going the way you planned.
It's a New York paper, so they can hate on MGT. They don't have to be consistent with the message from one branch tp the other.
I remember back in 2008. The Post had two op-ed pieces on the same page. One writer said that Obama was just another neoliberal hack who'd push a softer version of GOP plans and the voters should just opt for McCain. The other said that Obama was a hard Left radical who would about an extremist agenda.
It's choose your own hatred adventure!
I still like Moscow Marge more... But hey.
Marjory Traitor Green.
Perjury Traitor Scheme
https://nypost.com/2024/04/20/us-news/house-approves-95b-in-military-aid-for-israel-ukraine/
The actual story if anyone wants to read that rag.
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Blatantly copying my previous comment.
Hey, Republicans, do y'all remember Red Dawn? Those two movies you made about The USSR and Russia being the ultimate evil enemy that was going to invade and must be stopped? You do? Good.
My real question is, why in the name of all that is Murican, ARE YOU ACTIVELY HELPING RUSSIA WITH THEIR ILLEGAL AND UNPROVOKED INVASION‽‽‽
Because the Soviet Union was a communist dictatorship, which the GOP hated (the communist part of it, anyway), and modern Russia is kleptocratic oligarchy, which the GOP loves. Easy enough to tease out, really.
Even simpler:
Communist = lefties
Oligarchs & dictators = rich CEOs running the country.
Guess which ones the republicans have been supporting for decades.
Ever simplerer:
$$$$$$$
The GOP decision-makers see the Russian oligarchy and how freely they leech their wealth from the public and say "I want that."
The MAGA followers see modern Russian society as a bastion of "western" (white) moral traditionalism holding out against progressive globalist degeneracy where none of this "woke" shit flies.
They have more in common with modern Russia than they do with modern America. They want the US to be more like Russia and many will be willing to spill American blood to get there.
Republicans are the kind of people who think Footloose is a warning against the dangers of freedom.
Yes, they are clearly bought and paid for.
Because money.
The fact that the only Nays were Republicans speaks volumes. The Republican party has been compromised by Russia, it's the only explanation that makes sense.
And, to clarify for future readers, this vote was only for the Ukraine Aid portion of the package. Each part got a separate vote. So even though the package includes Israeli funding, it wasn't part of this particular vote which was exclusively about aid to Ukraine.
well you got the names, now how about doing a little background check if there is some russki money lying somewhere in those traitors bank accounts...
I'm doing background research and found a picture of biden laughing with medvedev and berlusconi. I guess it's not just these 112 idiots who have ties with the mafia and russia but all of them are corrupted pigs in for the money and wealth
If Biden is also taking bribe money from Russia, as you suggest, then we should expect him to veto this bill, right?
Neoliberals are conservatives, but they usually are not outright traitors the way Republican conservatives are.
No? While peasants get send to the front to die politicians are collecting wealth and power thanks to this war.
You should expect politicians to do what's in their personal greedy interest, being taking money from someone or stabbing them in the back.
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Never made a post pro authoritarian corrupted governments. You must have open someone else profile
Some of the politicians realizes that an intact infrastructure and Europe not burdoned by war is a good thing and helps economic trade, etc. Some are old school politicians focused on diplomacy and mutually beneficial agreements (as confirmed being the most efficient strategy by game theory).
And then there's the morons who only think about short term personal benefits
Biden already said he’d veto an aid bill that included Israel without Ukraine. The republicans tried anyway, by drafting legislation last week.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/05/us/politics/biden-veto-israel-ukraine-immigration.html
okay.
So now you have a list of politicians that can either be bought by Russian money, or are dumb enough to fall for Russian propaganda.
Neither of which should be elected to lead a country.
Agreed. We’ve also obtained a Russian foreign policy document that explicitly states the support of the right-ring party in leveraging the direction of the US in favor of Russian support.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/08/russia-propaganda-us-ukraine/
The communication if you wish to translate for yourself:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/e7843591-08c7-4dab-98e1-d6faad68e048.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_5
I mean, they do represent a portion of their constituents.
off topic but I think you missed a real opportunity by not making your username "Honytalk"
The (R) is for Russian Asset.
Must have been a dilemma though, voting for Ukraine to fall or voting for dead Muslims.
Common misconception but no, actually, each portion got a separate vote. 112 legislators voted against aid to Ukraine, 58 voted against aid to Israel.
Oh that is a surprise. They usually bundle the shit out of these things.
The senate has to vote on it as a bundle or send it back to the house if I'm not mistaken, but the house got to vote on individual things. I hope I'm wrong, Ukraine needs us but also Fuck Israel.
In this instance they had to unbundle them because of the overlapping opposition to the different elements. Combined all of that opposition was enough to sink the whole thing, separated no one issue had enough opposition to fail.
Republicans then: Yay McCarthyism!
Republicans now: Daddy Putin, please step on my face uwu!
It was never about the Russians, it was always about protecting the rich
Its the same picture. McCarthyism was far more about whipping domestic residents into subservience than opposing some foreign menace. The Republican alignment with Daddy Vlady is now just a litmus test for party line faithfulness. A kind of partisan hazing ritual, where you have to go on cable news and say the thing that will get liberals to boo at you, so you can prove you're not one of them.
Then you can start hitting the harder stuff. You get into the QAnon kool-aid that convinces you there's a vast pedophile conspiracy to enslave white children, and only the most orthodox right-wing evangelicals can protect you from it.
Modern day Birchers have far more beef with China than Russia anyway. For, uh... reasons.
nyaaaaaaah putin >w< i wanna be one of your chiwd sowlders twerks in mass war crime
- leaked imessage between matt gaetz and putin, probably
If you care as much about Ukraine as you claim to why don't you go to the front lines and fight for them... Better yet, why aren't you advocating the United States to go directly to war with Russia? Wouldn't it be cheaper to get rid of Putin once and for all and to make Russia pay for the war?
Ukraine isn't asking anyone to go to the front and fight for them. They're asking for this aid. Anyone who cares about Ukraine as much as they claim will listen to what Ukraine asks for.
Halp me. They are attacking me send money, not reinforcements.
Geez, you have to be either blind or dumb to not see what this is. Proxy war is war. This is about money at this point, and what better way to funnel money than through aid packages.
Are you suggesting these Ukrainians on the front line begging for ammo are getting rich off of this somehow?
You think they are going to send a bag of money to Ukraine? Are you really that dumb? The approved amount is for weapons and ammo.
They can send money to their weapon manufacturers even without this war, you know?
You dumb fuck. They're sending that money in the form of weapons, ammo, fuel, tools, and equipment. Zelenskyy even said "I don't need a ride, I need more bullets."
Getting rid of Putin, and for that matter Xi, will likely not do a thing to stop the war on the Russian side, and the clear plans for invasion in the Chinese side.
Hard evidence that neither country has functioning nukes would, but getting rid of either one just creates a power vaccume that will quickly be filled by someone that is likely to look much like their predecessor.
So what you're saying is that there is no winning the war against Russia... Just sending more money to Ukraine indefinitely?
No, I'm saying we have entered a new Cold War against both China and Russia that is likely to last for the next several decades. We can't win a war. There are no winners in war. All we can do is provide enough resistance now to prevent the cold war we are in from boiling into active shooting in other theaters.
The reason it hasn't boiled into active war between countries is because we aren't sending American troops to Ukraine to fight the war.
This thread is great because pro-Russian morons are exposing themselves so it makes it real easy to block them.
FYI, when you block someone on Lemmy, they can still see your posts, and can respond to them.
The only thing that truly happens is that you can't see what they're saying/replying.
AntiCommercial-AIlicense(CCBY-NC-SA4.0)That's good enough for me. I don't need to read the bullshit stuff they say anyway. like, "it doesn’t make one “pro russia” if you don’t think sending BILLIONS of dollars to a foreign country is a great idea." .. what a tool
Fair enough, but they could be undermining your comments and you wouldn't know it. Just saying.
AntiCommercial-AIlicense(CCBY-NC-SA4.0)That's fine. They likely have more free time than I do to argue about nothing and for those that see their bullshit, they'll just vote it down.
Thats one way of looking at it. 🤷😇
AntiCommercial-AIlicense(CCBY-NC-SA4.0)There's a difference between pro Russian and not supporting giving tax dollars away to another country. Not everybody is pro Russian who wants to keep our tax dollars at home.
Not in this context. Blocked
it doesn't make one "pro russia" if you don't think sending BILLIONS of dollars to a foreign country is a great idea.
It sure does. Blocked.
Wrong
ooo "blocked".
you sure showed them
Self righteous leftist on full display
Send them to russia I'm sure they'll put them on the front line... traitors
So you're fighting on the front lines in Ukraine? Why not advocate that the US go to war with Russia directly? You just want to prolong things out for a few months, and then a few more months... Aid package after aid package tied to Israel genocide and all kinds of concessions for Republicans, while pretending that it was always about trying to "help" Ukraine
Barfing out the same dumb hot-take more than once doesn't make it any less dumb.
He has to post. It's his job. Easier to just post the same shit than to try to come up with something original.
Israel aid and Ukraine aid were two separate votes
GOP had previously tried to pass aid to Israel while simultaneously blocking Ukraine aid.
Ah, I think I misread something, got it
Our grandfathers 'prolonged thingss for 'dolfie for five years, after which he blew his brains out. So yeah
I'm honestly surprised that 101 Republicans voted yes.
They're not all dumb enough to get rich Russian style. Some of them remember that Russian oligarchs often fall out of windows.
112 Government of Putin representatives and fully funded by the fucking Muscovites. Every single one of those asswipes, along with the MAGATs, should join their comrades on the front to receive a special greeting from NATO and Ukrainian shrapnel. Fuck them and in this case, the French should have never helped the Americans during their fight against the Red Coats.
TRAITORS
I know this isn't why they voted against it, but the mass surveillance / censorship bill tacked onto this that's vainly disguised as a TikTok ban is pretty scary.
Fuck the GOP.
Each measure in the package got it's own vote. They voted against Ukraine Aid for no other reason than that it gave aid to Ukraine.
Did they? Huh.
And now people are singing Speaker Johnson's praises?
Amazing stuff.
It's fine to praise people for doing the right thing and also criticise them for doing the wrong thing.
He did the thing that liberals wanted him to do, so he's a hero.
When he does a thing liberals don't like, he'll be the enemy again.
If you don't like how a politician is perceived in western media, just wait a minute. Everyone from Ralph Nader to Strom Thurmond can be villainized or redeemed over a long enough timeline.
I hear Nixon liked dogs.
He definitely liked kickbacks.
Let's go Trump redemption 2024! Woohoo!
This, but unironically what the NYT has been pushing since he eclipsed Biden in the polls.
I wouldn't be surprised if this list also list of yacht owners.
I see Lauren Bobo and Gaetz on there, it could be a list of pedophiles and public masturbators.
Who hasn't jerked off there date to Beetlejucie?
That movie gets me laying snail trails wherever I go.
Or anti Israeli as they also got a few billion in this deal
As people mention here Israel and Ukraine were voted separately.
Good for Speaker Johnson. It was a mistake for the far right to support him. He's an evangelical, but he's also a true believer, rather than a grifter. When fully briefed on the intelligence, he ultimately chose to do the right thing.
Those putinites should be kicked off the squad
So very Jesus of them. /s
Reagan has got to be doing cartwheels in his coffin right now.
AntiCommercial-AIlicense(CCBY-NC-SA4.0)Ominous budget bills should be illegal. Why should the have to vote to help Ukraine and also send billions to a known terrorist organisation known by the name of Isreal
They also snuck the TikTok ban in there. I know a lot of old and out of touch folks on here think it's a good thing to ban the "dancing app" but is it? They couldn't get enough support to do it as a single issue the last two times they tried so the shoved it into this one to get their way. Ludicrous that our government doesn't even pretend to work for us anymore. It wasn't banned to protect us. It was banned to boost and protect their income.
From what I've read they are just requiring that it not be owned by the CCP by a certain date, i.e. it's not actually being banned, it's just going to have a change of ownership. I might be old and out of touch because I've never used TikTok but it seems reasonable that an app which is providing the kind of content it provides at the scale it is providing it should be independent of the Chinese government if it wants to operate in the US.
It's not going to change ownership because they have said in no uncertain terms that they won't and can't sell. They can't legally sell their algorithm anyway which is basically the whole point of the app. So even if they did, which they have stated they can't and won't, it'll be a skeleton of what we have now at best. At that point it'll just be them selling our data to some shitty US corporation which honestly pisses me off more. The people said no to this, they pushed it through anyway, and to top it off we're once again just having our data handed over to the top bidder. We should be used to people using our data without our consent but it feels especially shitty this time considering we said no.
What kind of content do you think it's providing that's so much more dangerous in some other countries hands? Also, why should I care if China profits off my data when the US has been stealing and abusing it for their own purposes for years anyway?
The risk is that it provides the CCP with a direct avenue to propagandize Americans and spread disinformation in the US. If you're an American then you should maybe care that a government which considers itself an adversary of the US can use your data to manipulate you into believing untrue things which serve their interests instead of your own. I understand if you don't care who profits from your data but that's not the actual issue here.
Ok. Show me where the propaganda is? Is it hiding in the recipe videos or cat videos or memes on my page that were made by other Americans? This is a bs excuse that way too many of you gobbled up simply because you wanted to believe it. The actual issue here is that millions of Americans aren't profiting American corporations and they hate that. So the corporations that basically run our country at this point found a way to put a stop to it. Now they'll try to buy up all of our data, without our consent as usual, under the guise of protecting it for us.
As an American, my own government ignored millions its citizens telling them we don't want this and quietly banned it by tucking it away inside of other bills. As an American, my own government is using my tax dollars to fund a genocide while declining to feed school kids and protect women's rights. As an American, I'm disappointed in my fellow Americans' eagerness to dismiss and defend this extremely unpatriotic act by our government.
Take a look at the buffoons "protecting us" and tell me you still believe they have good intentions and aren't just fear mongering.
https://youtu.be/5W-ufw5Z7ac?si=byjdYoRRl5qx6jUL https://youtu.be/cuCk4ofsTkM?si=kf6m1BzB2fuaGr4x
They don't even know basic geography or how the internet works ffs. Feel free to watch the whole thing. It was long but really eye opening to see just how little the people representing us actually understand about the world we live in.
I think you need to dig into the actual arguments being made around this subject and try engaging them with an open mind. If you're currently incapable of understanding how TikTok can be used to spread propaganda it's pointless for us to discuss this.
What a non-answer. If you can't hold up your end of the conversation by backing up your own claims then just say that and don't waste people's time.
You have absolutely no idea what you are wishing for and no idea how much worse things will get if your wish would become true
You should enlist and deploy a few times to get a taste of what you're wishing our communities.
Brave post while sitting on your ass doing nothing but whining.
The article "forgets" to mention the "foreign aid package" also contains billions to support "totally not a Genocide" commiting regime of Israel.I am not sure I would vote for it myself and I definitely support Ukraine.read the fucking article, each portion got a separate vote.
Ahh, I missed that. Sorry. Makes it even more ridiculous the Israel aid passed.
Gotta speed that rapture along somehow. Also, for the slightly less insane ones, gotta have somebody there to keep Iran scared.
Passed with more ease than Ukraine's even...
Because they get full intelligence briefing on the entire complex situation rather than.just getting indignant on the internet because of some memes and polemic opinion pieces they saw the headlines of
The year is 2003 and Nancy Pelosi is whispering to constituents that - yes, all this might look sketchy on its face - but the CIA just gave the intelligence committee a tip about this source named "Curveball" that's going to prove Saddam has WMDs and justify the whole thing.
Actually, sending taxpayer money to weapons manufacturers so you can support a genocide that your voters are ready to ditch you over is 9D chess, you wouldn't get it
I mean that they're our only real ally in the Middle East is probably enough on its own to justify the funding to Congress.
Ohhh, yes. Our glorious leaders have secret information we don't. Surely we must defer to their wisdom and support them unconditionally. /s
Which, paradoxically, means they're all going to pass.
The only piece of legislation the House really had beef with was the Ukraine bill. And they solved that by stapling the TikTok ban to it. Now the Dems in the Senate will greenlight all the money for Israel and Taiwan on reflex and choke down Ukraine as a sensible compromise.
Voting against Genocide money for Israel is very Based.The aid packages were separate votes, most did not vote against aid for Israel
Thank you for clarifying this I thought it was still bundles because all of the news was from the same day. I retract my previous comment.
Good.
I love it when you guys out yourselves like this so I know who to block. Bye bye 👋🏻
Fascist
So you like your Russia overlord, or are you just afraid of falling out of a window?
Good. Amazing how people are suffering here but we always have the money for foreign countries. Next time they say how can we fund Healthcare, homelessness or some program designed to help us people remember this.
It's a pretty selfish take. The US is (iirc) the largest economy on the planet. We take an absurd amount for granted and our standard of living compared to the vast majority of the world is insane. And yes - we've built it on the backs of damn near every culture on the planet. We deserve to give up aid to other nations. It is the least we can do. And frankly, this is a drop in the federal budget. Almost a rounding error. And even more, the majority of the money is gonna come right back into our economy because guess what - those weapons and ammo are going to be bought from U. S. defense contractors.
Perhaps you may live a privileged life but many of us don't. And that money will end up in the pockets of corporations and those who own them, not us peasants. If standards were better and we had what some would say are basic rights such as Healthcare then it would be less of a problem
If a small number of Repubs would vote for that it would probably pass also.
Yeah, let's pretend that these people aren't the same ones that vote against healthcare, homeless shelters and giving women a choice...How stupid are you?
I never said I'm with them. I'm simply saying that our money shouldn't be diverted else where when people here are suffering. Don't put words in my mouth.
Well, it's not either/or. The same people that voted against aid to Ukraine are the same people that vote against spending money on the stuff that you wish they'd spend money on. But you're ignoring all that, so I assume you're just arguing in bad faith
So why are we expected to be the world police
What a shortsighted lack of understanding you have there, mate.
Oh you’re one of those right wing dumdums who don’t understand why it’s better to fight a war before the frontline reaches your homeland?
Being anti war is right wing now?
So when a country attacks a sovereign country, what is the anti-war persons solution to that?
Then why does the rest of the world about America meddling in the affairs of others?
What do you prefer? That Ukraine rolls over to let Russia kidnap and rape their women and children while slaughtering every male?
Your reasoning is that of right wing chuds
???
Who would you like to be the world police? The Russians?
Is this supposed to be some kind of public shaming? It's not as if there weren't any reasons not to issue a blank check to Ukraine.
A comprehensible way to view this war is: One corrupt shit-hole country, formerly part of the Soviet Unions has attacked another corrupt shit-hole country, formerly part of the Soviet Union.
I am German and I am happy with giving the Ukraine plenty of funds and other means in order for enabling them to stop Russia expending in my general direction. I don't really see that much benefit for the US so. But thanks, every US dollar spent is about 1€ less we have to spend. Go for it.
Every dollar spent by the US on Ukraine helps undermine Russia's global influence and protects NATO, which was the US's goal for like 70 years now.
Absolutely. YOU give them YOUR money. The
spicepetro dollars must flow.Absolutely. YOU give them YOUR money. The
spicepetro dollars must flow.Making it very clear to the world you can’t just march into a neighboring sovereign country and take it over is very important for global security. That matters to all of us. We as a society should not accept that.
Absolutely. YOU give them YOUR money. The
spicepetro dollars must flow.It's a very cheap and low effort way to reduce Russia's ability to invade across Europe and stomp a bunch of NATO countries.
Sounds very much like your opnion is formed based on general ignorance on the subject, sprinkled with a good dosage of egotism
At the very least, they should help because they promised to. In 1994 Ukraine gave up its nukes (it had the 3rd largest arsenal). It did this with assurances that the US, UK and Russia would all respect its existing borders.
By not helping Ukraine resist Russia, the US is reneging on that promise (by letting Russia change the borders).
Absolutely. YOU give them YOUR money. The
spicepetro dollars must flow.What you pay in taxes isn't YOUR money so get over it.
So few people understand this. It's akin to the Jan 6 morons puking about the Capitol building being "our house". Not it fucking isn't, it's the government's building. Chanting "we the people" like morons only points out that you haven't read or don't understand the rest of the fucking preamble.
True. But even better: What you pay in taxes even is even less related to me.
I'm all for countries standing by their commitments, long term. The risks of not disarming Ukraine, particularly back then, is more than worth the cost now.
Appeasement is rarely a good idea, long term, no matter which warmonger it's aimed at.
Shut up.
Why would I? Did I offend you? I am sorry you feel that way 🤣
You're just an insufferable cad who should always keep your trap closed.
The US has the same benefits as Germany. It is bad for an aggressive adversarial state to invade their way through Europe.
The US gives them funding by selling them equipment the US was done with. The country gets to collect shitloads of data on using the weapons in a proxy war they don't have to commit to.
It’s also a huge benefit to our economy and (eventually) military readiness. We’re giving mostly older but still useful weapons, and most of the money goes to US defense companies to replenish our supplies with the latest and greatest.
Yeah, we’ve been running way too much debt and need to get a handle on it but this is a good use of debt and the problem is much bigger than this one “minor” part
The money isn't going to turn the tide against Russia. Ukraine has no chance of winning. It is just math. Joe Biden has no interest for the well-being of Ukraine. US prefers that Ukraine bleed Russia. This means every last Ukrainian. Biden regime knows Ukraine can't win, but that won't stop him from lying about victory, and inflating the threat from Russia. Ukraine conflict is directly a product of US foreign policy and that alone. Even European states other than the UK don't really support the war. At least, secretly. Publically, they have to.
Honestly, what the fuck even is this bullshit?
Ukraine is fighting an invading force that is kidnapping children and targeting infrastructure. They have no choice but to keep fighting. Without financial and military support, Ukraine will cease to be.
You're not wrong that America benefits from the proxy war that has weakened Putin militarily and politically. Putin, like Trump, is a punkass bitch who is willing to kill to keep projecting power.
If America stops supporting Ukraine, that's not in anyone's best interest except Putin.
What is that post you're replying to? It's obvious tankie propaganda.
If you asked me in 2019 if I thought who would win between Russia and Ukraine I would have said no doubt Russia would win. After they took Crimea in 2014 it seemed it was only a matter of time. But after Ukraine successfully fought back Russia from taking Kyiv at the start of the war now I'm sure if Ukraine had the the proper funding they could defeat Russia.
Watching Russia actually mobilize and use some of the ancient tanks that modern weapons easily penatrate and destroy...and to see that they were even desperate enough to dig in and go through the red forest at Chernobyl to try to take Kyiv and still failed....it showed how desperate, under-funded, weak, and terribly lead the Russians are. It seems the only way Russia can beat this tiny nation is by literally throwing millions of men at bullets and hope that the Ukrainian defenders run out of ammo.
If Ukraine can be properly funded it will win. If you know you have the ammo and supply chains needed to keep the Ukrainian front line defenders properly supplied, just throwing away Russian lives endlessly wont work. Tankies desperately need the western populations to turn against funding the war in Ukraine because Russia has already been completely embarrassed in this war. The first major protests against putin inside Russia by armed mercenaries have happened directly as a result of this war. Putin could very well end up dead and Russia could have a whole new system of government if Ukraine is able to stabilize and push back in the coming years. People in Russia are tired of the war, Putin NEEDS a total victory to stay in power.
Don't let tankies convince you otherwise. The fact this war is still going on and that Russia has won so little territory from Ukraine shows that Russia is extremely weak. A properly funded Ukraine can win. Putin could easily end up dead, he is extremely paranoid. The fact that the Wagner group staged an armed protest in Russia is huge. All it will take is the right spark in Russia and there could be a massive revolt against the Russian government.
The only other way I see Russia winning is by using nukes. But if that happens I don't think Nato or the rest of the world would just let it slide....most likely it would lead to WW3.
With or without financial aid, Ukraine will lose. It is math. Russians invaded Ukraine because the US was trying to isolate Russia from Ukraine. This means no tolerance for pro-Russian Ukrainian presidents; the coup of 2014 that overturned the democratic vote, and the subsequent declarations of independent republics in the Donbas because of the color revolution that undermined democracy. NATO afterward starting arming and training Ukrainians will promote NATO and EU membership. NATO is a US organization, and NATO foreign policy is US foreign policy. Europeans are subservient to the US for security. Most European states don't support the war in Ukraine privately, but for the sake of NATO unity, they publically support it, because the US pays for NATO defense.
Hey: fuck you and your shit math. These are people. Helping them is right.
Look at the language. "Biden regime" "2014 coup".
It's written in English, but it sure sounds Russian.
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The money only accelerates their demise. It is not helpful for Ukraine. It is the opposite. If Biden really cared about the Ukrainian people, he would call up a cease fire. He wants no peace deal. He wants only war. NATO is counting on the Ukrainian nationalist to send every man to their death.
Gtfo russian troll. Yeah, I look at the last three years and think: Biden.. He only wants war!! Lmao
Joe Biden signed a bill that funds the military or supports the military of Taiwan, Israel, and Ukraine. Yes, he loves war. Just because he uses others as pawns doesn't make him eligible for Nobel Peace Prize. Joe Biden is a foreign asset, a war criminal, he is compromised and intimidated. He is subordinate to US agencies and foreign lobbies. It can be argued that Joe Biden is a traitor. Biden's voting record speaks for itself.
Wrong. EU countries have given over 50 billion $ support so far. Germany alone has given roughly 28 billion. There's only a handful states that are in opposition against it, including lighthouses of democracy like Hungary...
That is publically, not privately. Europeans have no independent foreign policy. They have no sovereign foreign policy. They follow the US because the US pays for NATO, therefore NATO publically gets support from NATO members who benefit from US security. Context is important, and no, Germany does not support the war in Ukraine in private matters. Germany does not operate an independent foreign policy. It is actually against German interests to support the war in Ukraine. The US by itself would have no influence in Europe if not for NATO. NATO is the US control over Europe. Many Europeans are aware of this.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/macron-says-eu-can-no-longer-rely-on-us-for-its-security
Macron reiterated calls for a third way between the U.S. and China, saying Europe must show that “it’s never going to be a vassal for the United States.” https://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel-macron-europe-china-competition-protectionism-geopolitics/
Are you sure you know any math, in general? You sure seem to like that phrase, yet you don't do any.
As for the rest, you might as well write in russian, because that's exactly what it sounds like - brainwashed russian bullshit. It's especially telling that you think that the European countries don't care what happens to Ukraine. That's such utter idiocy that it could only come from Russia.
I mean, maybe you're right about it being impossible for Ukrain to win. Putin is committed to hiding his fear with violence.
The "coup" in 2014 was made much easier when Yanukovych murdered a bunch of unarmed protestors and then fled the country to hide under Putin's skirt.
NATO is a coalition of countries, which includes the USA. You're kidding yourself if you think the EU doesn't support Ukraine. Every EU country wants Ukrainian exports, and all of them are concerned with Russian aggression against foreign sovereign powers. The only EU country that doesn't support defending Ukraine against invasion is Hungary, but we all know that the whiny shitbag Orban has been licking Putin's balls in exchange for power.
Not all countries in the EU support Ukraine. It is not in their interest to support the conflict in Ukraine. If Russia was such a looming threat, they would have paid their fair share in NATO military funding. Barack Obama pointed this out, not just Trump. Obviously, they preferred to get rich, instead of spend money on the military. Viktor Orbán is the sanest leader in the EU because he tells it like it is. A Russian threat is greatly inflated with myths of a new USSR. Russians are not ideologically communist, and they have no interest in controlling other European people. They have been there and done that. The Soviets had to deal with uprising and insubordinate leaders when they controlled Eastern Europe. Uprisings in Romania and Hungary. Ukraine is a security matter for Russia. There is no imperial motivation for it. It was well established long before this conflict that NATO expansion into Ukraine would be a disaster. Angela Merkel and Sarkozy said this much including Bill Burns as Secretary of State, and ambassador. Bill Burns still works in the US government.
Quoted without comment.
What do you think "math" is?
+5 rubles for every tankie propaganda post/comment.
I agree with these 112 morons. We shouldn't send aid to Ukraine.
The aid is in the form of outdated, surplus military equipment that was scheduled to be replaced anyways. The alternative is paying a company to dispose of them. So why don't you want to send this aid to Ukraine where it can be used? The only people that should have any problem with this are those who are busy sucking Putin's knob.
Or people who don't know anything about what you said because the media just acts like the bill steals money from us to give to them instead
You answered your own question!
A lot of that equipment would've just gone back for rework and upgrades. Just because they're old doesn't mean they don't work. That narrative was intended to force the US to by new more expensive hardware instead of repairing what we already have. Now that the old stuff is shipped out there's a demand for new builds.
We will only give Ukraine just enough to prolong the war as long as possible. This war means trillions of dollars in sales if it goes on long enough. I bet the US can stretch it up to ten years if they play the same right. And all the while, Ukraine will be bombed to shit, waiting for the US mega corporations to make more money on the reconstruction efforts. They just need to make sure Putin stays in power or the whole scheme falls apart.
So your idea is to let Russia steamroll Ukraine in which Ukraine will still be bombed to shit? Yeah you're a fucking bootlicker.
The best idea is to force a peace treaty. Tell Putin he can have the land he's captured if the war ends now. Better to let him take that land than wait until Russian military gets back into Kiev again or other more populous cities in the West. He'll feel like he's won and the killing will end. Otherwise there will be no end. Putin will never give up unless the Russian people put his head on a pike. Even if Ukraine somehow manages to push Russian troops back to their borders, the war doesn't end there and Ukraine isn't going to conquer Russia.
Your solution to a tyrant is to... appease the tyrant? Fuck off.
The other solution is Ukraine becoming the next Afghanistan
I hope your country gets invaded and you use this same diplomacy you're using for Ukraine. Spineless bitch.
Well, if my country was being invaded I'd probably just leave. Ukrainians have that ability. It's not like Palestine where they literally can't leave.
Keep sucking Putins dick.
I would like to point out that russia is fine with this war otherwise they wouldn't have started it. Politicians and government use wars as a tool to get more power and enrich themself which is pretty much what is happening right now too
Russia isn't necessarily fine with it just because they started it. After all, they seized Crimea back in 2014 and got away with it without a fight. Russia also made a push to capture Ukraine's government in a matter of days at the start, which they wouldn't have done if they didn't think there was a chance of it succeeding. It's very possible that Russia expected this to be over quickly and based its decision on that expectation
If they are able to bribe 112 US government figures i believe they also weighted in the option that the invasion of a full ass country they have been at war since 2014 could have last more than 3 days
maybe OP is a moron, too. condolences to his family.
The US has no intention of ending the war. They want Ukraine to be the next forever war to drive the military industrial complex
Fuck off bootlicker.
I'm a union man. I would never lick a boot
Your stance says otherwise, chump.
Exactly what a Russian bot would say.
But you also like to push Chinese interests, don't you?
Whoa, you caught me. I'm a Russian bot.
And what do you think will happen if Putin wins in Ukraine?
He already is winning. Look at a map of controlled areas by Russia vs ukraine. Watch analysis by Scott Ritter and John mersheimer.
Actually I'd prefer analysis based in reality, not some far right fantasy.
Your classification of them as far right says everything about your ignorance. Is everyone who doesn't agree with you far right? Did you know that both soctt and John consider what's going in palestine a genocide? Or can you not comprehend nuance and just like to stay in an echo chamber where you feel validated with your beliefs?
Nah, they're not far right. One's a sex offender and the other spews Putin's words as truths, despite evidence to the contrary. Facts keep changing, yet mearsheimer's "beliefs" do not. To him Putin isn't an imperialist dictator despite the fact that he keeps annexing more and more land to russia by invading sovereign countries and has been "president" for over 2 decades while his opponents keep falling out of windows and such. 2014 was a coup, obviously, because Ukrainians couldn't possibly be opposed to getting closer to Russia, etc, etc.
Please...
Putin thought he would take Ukraine in a matter of days. It's been years.
The ruble has been hit hard by all the sanctions. The Russian economy has been weakened to divert funds to a war inept Russia can't even finish. Russia's infrastructure and money-producing assets like their oil refineries and rail yards are being attacked by Ukrainians as well as partisans within Russia.
Are Russians killing a lot of Ukrainians? Sure, but they've made a laughable amount of progress in Ukraine over the years. Look at the Black Sea fleet numbers. Ultimately Putin is fucking over Russia for a war he can't finish.
and why do you agree and join those morons?
They're right for all the wrong reasons. They just support Russia. I just don't support Ukraine becoming the next forever war.
Your post history shows you are intelligent and articulate. I feel that, geopolitically, that is a self-destructive act for our country over time. Why do you feel it’s a bad idea?
Because the US has no intention of saving Ukraine. The intent is for the war to go on as long as possible so we can continue making a shitload of money on selling weapons. As soon as it's no longer profitable we'll let Russia roll over Ukraine.