Ahh man gotta love NVIDIA. Most of my machines have an NVIDIA GPU, but I've had only a few minor issues along the way. Mostly from me not reading things correctly.
Saw issues with flickering electron applications, sleep somehow running the GPU until my battery was drained, hyprland just saying not today and random crashes here and there.
Systems are pretty stable now, laptop runs fine in hybrid mode (AMD / NVIDIA) and I removed almost all electron applications.
I've found if I can't figure something out I'll start a new module for another package. But I guess if it's something "mission critical" in your case a GPU then it's pretty hard to do much else.
Also, this whole meme misses out on the whole fun factor of getting everything setup exactly how you want and all the learning along the way. The Arch user is way more likely to fix any issues that come up in the future rather than just nuking the install and starting over Windows-style like this meme suggests.
Arch user rage bait and I guess I fell for it. I use arch btw.
If you actually want to use your machine, keeping the machine from nuking itself shouldn't be a hobby on its own. I need a reliable platform to work on, not a minefield on a fault line.
Don't know what you've been using but I sure wouldn't describe Arch as any of that. Once things are setup, I've extremely rarely run into issues that I didn't cause myself.
"That I didn't cause myself" is basically self-gaslighting. Using a system in exactly the way it's supposed to be used shouldn't cause any issues. Regular updates shouldn't cause issues. Sure, it can happen, but it shouldn't be the norm.
Recognizing your own mistakes is self-gaslighting now? FFS. And making a mistake sure is not "using a system in exactly the way it's supposed to be used."
Sometimes we make mistakes, it's okay. If I wanted my OS to coddle me I wouldn't be using Linux.
Again, this is exactly how the system is supposed to be used. You run whatever the update command is on your system occasionally. If that regularly breaks your system, the OS is not a stable platform. That might have its reasons, but it doesn't change the facts.
It's not a fact that updates regularly break the system. I've been using Arch for like 20 years now and I can count the amount of times that's happened to me on one hand. I can do the same for CentOS and other distros as well.
It also wasn't what I was referring to when I said I broke my shit by a mistake so you're sticking words in my mouth.
Then you either have very large hands or don't update that much. When I did use Arch for a while, Pacman often enough broke some stuff.
It also wasn’t what I was referring to when I said I broke my shit by a mistake so you’re sticking words in my mouth.
No, I interpret your words in a way appropriate here. You said, that only mistakes cause errors, I said that updates caused errors, and that I don't think updates count as mistakes. So either you think that updating is a mistake, or we have fundamentally different experiences using Arch. I'm only sticking the shit in your mouth that you left their in the first place.
The only mistake I can remember not being mine, was with GRUB, in which grub-install installed stuff in a different way than what was already installed by EndaeavourOS beforehand, meaning that the default options didn't work well.
Of course, there might have been an eos application which was supposed to be used for that.
Otherwise, whenever systems broke, they were my own doing, sometimes explicitly.
Enough with the Arch hate, already!
Arch admins just want code sans spaghetti!
Debian, Fedora, guess they can be cool...
But us Arch users don't need no 'installer tool'
We all know the Arch wiki's amazin',
(but at the risk of some minor noob hazin')
If you can't get far with their great AUR
Then Mint might be more where you are
Now as much as it pains me to say
There's no Arch on my box, by the way
Manjaro's OS has been my fave for years
(To be honest Arch leaves many in tears)
I installed Arch once & it took less than 30mins to complete. Still using the same install, as it has literally never broken. This comic literally applies to those people who use Arch incorrectly....
About the same. Been using my arch install with KDE for about 5 years with no major problems at all. I use systemd boot so I've not had the issue with grub as other people seem to have had.
I can only laugh at the comics they need to make to justify their distros. I use my Arch machine for work and it works far better than when I was using Debian. Also I am not putting up with an ancient kernel and Nvidia drivers. I even have to setup pipewire manually on debian and on Fedora it's codecs. Both ridiculous.
Plus if anything Debian is more stringent regarding proprietary packages than Arch. Arch package manager will let you install open source drivers or proprietary drivers equally. If adhering to "extreme" moral values is the joke about being labelled vegan, then debian is the vegan one.
It's a little silly to look at a whole nearly 10 years and not recognize culture has changed significantly, but here's an example considering the other reply failed to produce one:
Merely 1 year before, the internet was roiled by absolute massive drama that was basically masterminded by proto-incels upset that women were in the video game industry. They were extremely successful in framing a jilted ex's story as somehow a question of ethics. It was not only impressive how seriously they were taken, but some aspects were just unquestioned as just "how the internet was" like making depictions of these public figures being beaten to a bloody pulp, when nowadays the kids have been having to make euphemisms for implying someone dying in any way to get around censors. It even spilled over into 2015, which is why I can even use it as an example for that year.
In comparison, Gamergate 2 happened a few weeks ago. Its likely not many people here will even realize that even happened, and those that do recognize it was a whimpering yelp at best compared to the OG.
Many aspects of our society and culture including the fact that in the early teens random jokes at vegan’s expense were seen as normal rather than a fuck move
I'll repeat what I said the last time this was posted: NO f*cking way the Fedora guy got past the partition configuration step without pulling at least a few hairs out! I love Fedora, but that UI is just cursed!
I love Anaconda, but I will admit the partition management isn't very intuitive. That is the only thing I can ding it on though, in every other regard it's an amazing installer.
on my main system i have arch with a partitioning scheme that has worked well for me because i took time to research and identify what i needed from it. i even got full disk encryption working after the fact!
on fedora i click automatic partitioning, wipe the drives i want, and don't do more than that because the partitioning screen feels extremely confusing.
Installed with archinstall and got it up and running in less than 30 minutes. Assuming you have used linux before it really shouldn't take too long, i use arch btw
In reality it's mostly the opposide tho. Like in any Social Media post about plant based food you get bunch of meat eaters who have to announce to everyone how much they enjoy eating meat.
they really love doing that. around when i went vegan someone i know was asking me about it and then stopped talking to me entirely because i "bring up veganism too much" after like 2 conversations that i did not initiate.
meanwhile you literally cannot escape meat eaters either talking about how much they love meat or condemning imaginary people who are trying to make them eat bugs or something and conflating that with veganism, yet vegans are annoying.
I've used all these distros and I've never contributed shit lol. Love that shirt though... Is the v supposed to be like the vim logo? Or maybe upside down arch.
I never had problems with Debian stable, especially on headless server. But it's not especially well-suited for brand new desktop hardware; even Ubuntu LTS and RHEL focus more on hardware enablement backports than Debian.
I've had a worse experience with Debian testing breaking my system with updates than Arch. Adding to that the freeze period (2012's was the worst, lasting 11 months) makes testing feel like the worst of both worlds between rolling and standard release distros.
Debian is the only distro in my recent memory that crashed into an unbootable state right after a default installation.
Manual Arch installation is tedious and unnecessary if you've done it once, and the automated archinstall fails too often. Other than that, I've had literally zero issues with it.
It's even worse with Fedora in my experience. Always some weird default, strange issue, missing packages that take ages to fix until you decide it's not the right distribution for you. And you go with Debian, Arch, Manjaro, Mint, etc...
The script just does all the actions that you would otherwise be manually typing in the terminal. When it's finished, you have the same minimal environment as if you'd done it manually, but with less work.
I heard the hype, did an install of arch ( before the installer script ) followed the wiki and was done and running gnome desktop in a very short amount of time.
However, the tweaking afterward is where I prefer a currated distro.
i.e. My OpenSUSE does snapshot cleanups on its own based on time or number, btrfs scrub and other jobs happen without me having to touch a command line. Sometimes I just want to get work done and not worry about the OS.
I had past exp with Debian not working on my laptop.
So when buying a new Desktop, I made sure to check my Motherboard for compatibility before the purchase, so that it would work well on Debian.
nowadays archinstall will get you up and running nice and quick. I broke my setup the other day by misusing paru. I wish arch didn't have this reputation. other than me uninstalling my own display manager it's been perfectly stable through every update since I installed it years ago. the wiki has incredible amounts of digestible information that has helped me set up anything I want. it's true that it can be more difficult than other distros, and there are some elitists. but it's a good choice for people who like to tinker.
I dunno, when I ran Arch for awhile AUR was the best thing about it, once enabled almost everything was...just there.
No "Oh, you have to load our repo" or "Yea it's in the [Main/Universe/Galactic/Solar system/whatever] buttt it's always 256 versions behind, so add our repo anyways"
Yea, I know it only takes a few minutes (most of the time) to add a new repo, but it gets rather annoying after awhile, especially compared to a system that has just about everything just...there ready to go.
totally anecdotal.... but i've installed debian on a bunch of different machines and i've never had to "prepare additional installation media" for any weird hardware/firmware/drivers.... i just installed the base system and connected ethernet if any non-free stuff is needed. has anyone ever come across an ethernet interface that didn't work out of the box? maybe it didn't work 100%, but at least good enough to download the proper firmware to fix?
Well, my laptop doesn't have an ethernet port. When it happened to me (not on Debian, I think Mint or something), I didn't even use a phone OS that was capable of sharing my internet via USB. Fun times.
Thats why i said you just need a few minutes on ethernet.... Although i can see the problem these days with a lot of laptops shipping without ethernet ports
This is why I made my own install script for arch that gets me fully up and running with working hibernation and other tweaks. It might not take 5 minutes to install but I only have to press a few buttons and let it run
As an arch user myself, I have to agree. This is eerily true.
I love and hate arch for what it is. Just don't leave your laptop in the closet without updating it every few months. It's pretty certain that you have to reinstall arch if you wait too long.
This is how not to use Arch.. Update at least once a month, or if not maybe at least twice a month. If you can't handle the updates on Arch then consider switching to something like Debian....
It's not like I cannot handle the updates. I really love arch for its flexibility, and with that come bleeding edge updates.
Fedora is the next best thing but I'm definitely not as experienced there and it's quite often lacking packages that arch does provide, either via its mirrors or the AUR
Of all the distros I’ve hopped over the last 25 years, the most self destructive one has to have been Ubuntu.
I use NixOS btw
same here! haven't borked my system once since using nixOS
Oh I have, but then I just roll back.
Lucky you, straight up doesn't work on my new laptop.
Tried the unstable installer?
Installation worked, it was just the usual Nvidia stuff and this time it was way above my skills.
Ahh man gotta love NVIDIA. Most of my machines have an NVIDIA GPU, but I've had only a few minor issues along the way. Mostly from me not reading things correctly.
Saw issues with flickering electron applications, sleep somehow running the GPU until my battery was drained, hyprland just saying not today and random crashes here and there.
Systems are pretty stable now, laptop runs fine in hybrid mode (AMD / NVIDIA) and I removed almost all electron applications.
I've found if I can't figure something out I'll start a new module for another package. But I guess if it's something "mission critical" in your case a GPU then it's pretty hard to do much else.
Yeah, I need GPU for CUDA, so it needs to work. It also doubles as my gaming laptop, which I could live without, but it would be suboptimal.
Meanwhile in Gentoo: Still compiling.
Oh wait: binpkgs, update is done and I don't have look at NixOS anymore. [=
Arch users overreacting to a meme is not helping refute it. I use arch, btw.
To every arch meme action, there is an arch user overreaction.
It's what makes it fun.
Also, this whole meme misses out on the whole fun factor of getting everything setup exactly how you want and all the learning along the way. The Arch user is way more likely to fix any issues that come up in the future rather than just nuking the install and starting over Windows-style like this meme suggests.
Arch user rage bait and I guess I fell for it. I use arch btw.
If you actually want to use your machine, keeping the machine from nuking itself shouldn't be a hobby on its own. I need a reliable platform to work on, not a minefield on a fault line.
Don't know what you've been using but I sure wouldn't describe Arch as any of that. Once things are setup, I've extremely rarely run into issues that I didn't cause myself.
"That I didn't cause myself" is basically self-gaslighting. Using a system in exactly the way it's supposed to be used shouldn't cause any issues. Regular updates shouldn't cause issues. Sure, it can happen, but it shouldn't be the norm.
Recognizing your own mistakes is self-gaslighting now? FFS. And making a mistake sure is not "using a system in exactly the way it's supposed to be used."
Sometimes we make mistakes, it's okay. If I wanted my OS to coddle me I wouldn't be using Linux.
Doing an update is not a mistake.
Again, this is exactly how the system is supposed to be used. You run whatever the update command is on your system occasionally. If that regularly breaks your system, the OS is not a stable platform. That might have its reasons, but it doesn't change the facts.
It's not a fact that updates regularly break the system. I've been using Arch for like 20 years now and I can count the amount of times that's happened to me on one hand. I can do the same for CentOS and other distros as well.
It also wasn't what I was referring to when I said I broke my shit by a mistake so you're sticking words in my mouth.
Then you either have very large hands or don't update that much. When I did use Arch for a while, Pacman often enough broke some stuff.
No, I interpret your words in a way appropriate here. You said, that only mistakes cause errors, I said that updates caused errors, and that I don't think updates count as mistakes. So either you think that updating is a mistake, or we have fundamentally different experiences using Arch. I'm only sticking the shit in your mouth that you left their in the first place.
Sometimes nuking and resetting up is faster than fixing the problem.
Seems more like an opportunity to learn then if that's the case. Fixing things has almost never taken me longer than a full reinstall.
fixing things have taken me longer but i learn a lot on the way so I'm not complaining :)
I presume you don't host any services.
You presume incorrect
Having a button to reinstall would make it even faster. Or at least a rollback button
The only mistake I can remember not being mine, was with GRUB, in which grub-install installed stuff in a different way than what was already installed by EndaeavourOS beforehand, meaning that the default options didn't work well.
Of course, there might have been an eos application which was supposed to be used for that.
Otherwise, whenever systems broke, they were my own doing, sometimes explicitly.
And here I just spent an afternoon trying to get hibernation working on fedora unsuccessfully
It's not so bad. You just have to sacrifice a goat to the waxing moon while capricorn is ascending.
Enuf with the Arch hate already..
Fedora and Debian are cool,
but Arch is too,
their Wiki is amazing and so is the AUR.
And no I don't use Arch btw,
I use Manjaro,
which has suited me fine for years now.
Sad that this is neither a haiku nor a poem. But I still agree.
Enough with the Arch hate, already!
Arch admins just want code sans spaghetti!
Debian, Fedora, guess they can be cool...
But us Arch users don't need no 'installer tool'
We all know the Arch wiki's amazin',
(but at the risk of some minor noob hazin')
If you can't get far with their great AUR
Then Mint might be more where you are
Now as much as it pains me to say
There's no Arch on my box, by the way
Manjaro's OS has been my fave for years
(To be honest Arch leaves many in tears)
That can absolutely qualify as a poem.
I installed Arch once & it took less than 30mins to complete. Still using the same install, as it has literally never broken. This comic literally applies to those people who use Arch incorrectly....
About the same. Been using my arch install with KDE for about 5 years with no major problems at all. I use systemd boot so I've not had the issue with grub as other people seem to have had.
I've actually been meaning to give systemd boot a try. Been using grub just fine though & I've never actually had any problems with it....
With the amount of time and effort used to make this dumb meme I could have installed Arch a dozen times
Author: "I use Fedora BTW"
I can only laugh at the comics they need to make to justify their distros. I use my Arch machine for work and it works far better than when I was using Debian. Also I am not putting up with an ancient kernel and Nvidia drivers. I even have to setup pipewire manually on debian and on Fedora it's codecs. Both ridiculous.
Why the insult at vegans? Is it 2015 again?
Plus if anything Debian is more stringent regarding proprietary packages than Arch. Arch package manager will let you install open source drivers or proprietary drivers equally. If adhering to "extreme" moral values is the joke about being labelled vegan, then debian is the vegan one.
What has changed significantly since 2015?
It's a little silly to look at a whole nearly 10 years and not recognize culture has changed significantly, but here's an example considering the other reply failed to produce one:
Merely 1 year before, the internet was roiled by absolute massive drama that was basically masterminded by proto-incels upset that women were in the video game industry. They were extremely successful in framing a jilted ex's story as somehow a question of ethics. It was not only impressive how seriously they were taken, but some aspects were just unquestioned as just "how the internet was" like making depictions of these public figures being beaten to a bloody pulp, when nowadays the kids have been having to make euphemisms for implying someone dying in any way to get around censors. It even spilled over into 2015, which is why I can even use it as an example for that year.
In comparison, Gamergate 2 happened a few weeks ago. Its likely not many people here will even realize that even happened, and those that do recognize it was a whimpering yelp at best compared to the OG.
Ah true, censorship really wasn't quite as bad in 2015 yet, point taken
That's your takeaway?
Many aspects of our society and culture including the fact that in the early teens random jokes at vegan’s expense were seen as normal rather than a fuck move
Lol. That hasn't changed.
oh look. it's here to tell us it's vegan.
And you wonder why jokes come at your expense.
I'll repeat what I said the last time this was posted: NO f*cking way the Fedora guy got past the partition configuration step without pulling at least a few hairs out! I love Fedora, but that UI is just cursed!
Am I the only one that’s not had trouble with it? What’s the big issue?
I love Anaconda, but I will admit the partition management isn't very intuitive. That is the only thing I can ding it on though, in every other regard it's an amazing installer.
I just had to imagine you facing the fedora installer's partitioning tool:
Just wipe everything and select automatic partitioning
this is the way
on my main system i have arch with a partitioning scheme that has worked well for me because i took time to research and identify what i needed from it. i even got full disk encryption working after the fact!
on fedora i click automatic partitioning, wipe the drives i want, and don't do more than that because the partitioning screen feels extremely confusing.
Installed with archinstall and got it up and running in less than 30 minutes. Assuming you have used linux before it really shouldn't take too long, i use arch btw
You have a problem with veganism?
I think it's a meme like arch users and vegans "how do you find them in a crowd? Don't worry they'll let you know"
In reality it's mostly the opposide tho. Like in any Social Media post about plant based food you get bunch of meat eaters who have to announce to everyone how much they enjoy eating meat.
they really love doing that. around when i went vegan someone i know was asking me about it and then stopped talking to me entirely because i "bring up veganism too much" after like 2 conversations that i did not initiate.
meanwhile you literally cannot escape meat eaters either talking about how much they love meat or condemning imaginary people who are trying to make them eat bugs or something and conflating that with veganism, yet vegans are annoying.
I've used all these distros and I've never contributed shit lol. Love that shirt though... Is the v supposed to be like the vim logo? Or maybe upside down arch.
I need this
I've had more issues with most distros than arch.
Gentoo users: Signature look of superiority. (their face has frozen that way while waiting for packages to compile)
Meanwhile the OpenSUSE user is sitting contently in their bubble while everyone else is fighting.
Personally I've had more issues tweaking Debian to just work as needed then Arch
I never had problems with Debian stable, especially on headless server. But it's not especially well-suited for brand new desktop hardware; even Ubuntu LTS and RHEL focus more on hardware enablement backports than Debian.
I've had a worse experience with Debian testing breaking my system with updates than Arch. Adding to that the freeze period (2012's was the worst, lasting 11 months) makes testing feel like the worst of both worlds between rolling and standard release distros.
Agreed. Try to setup newer nvidia drivers, a newer kernel and it is the furthest from stable as any distro ever was.
Using an unstable kernel and drivers on Debian is the crackhead type of tweaking
Debian is the only distro in my recent memory that crashed into an unbootable state right after a default installation.
Manual Arch installation is tedious and unnecessary if you've done it once, and the automated archinstall fails too often. Other than that, I've had literally zero issues with it.
It's even worse with Fedora in my experience. Always some weird default, strange issue, missing packages that take ages to fix until you decide it's not the right distribution for you. And you go with Debian, Arch, Manjaro, Mint, etc...
the fucking fedora tip. this meme is so goddamn cringe. Also why attack vegans?
10 minutes, that's what i need to install my arch system
Exactly. And the archinstall script makes it almost as easy as Ubuntu. I think this comic is obsolete.
I don't recommend using an install script, what's the point of using vanilla arch then ?
Holy shit you're elitist
The script just does all the actions that you would otherwise be manually typing in the terminal. When it's finished, you have the same minimal environment as if you'd done it manually, but with less work.
I heard the hype, did an install of arch ( before the installer script ) followed the wiki and was done and running gnome desktop in a very short amount of time. However, the tweaking afterward is where I prefer a currated distro. i.e. My OpenSUSE does snapshot cleanups on its own based on time or number, btrfs scrub and other jobs happen without me having to touch a command line. Sometimes I just want to get work done and not worry about the OS.
I had more troubles with Debian than arch. I have some old nvidia stuff and some non-standard sound stuff.
I had past exp with Debian not working on my laptop.
So when buying a new Desktop, I made sure to check my Motherboard for compatibility before the purchase, so that it would work well on Debian.
Then I went with EndeavourOS. 😜
nowadays archinstall will get you up and running nice and quick. I broke my setup the other day by misusing paru. I wish arch didn't have this reputation. other than me uninstalling my own display manager it's been perfectly stable through every update since I installed it years ago. the wiki has incredible amounts of digestible information that has helped me set up anything I want. it's true that it can be more difficult than other distros, and there are some elitists. but it's a good choice for people who like to tinker.
You look like you have some biases. btw.
Yeah but AUR is so fucking sexy
I use AUR in an Arch distrobox in Fedora. btw.
A fucking sexy security hazard.
Same thing
No it's an unstable mess
I dunno, when I ran Arch for awhile AUR was the best thing about it, once enabled almost everything was...just there.
No "Oh, you have to load our repo" or "Yea it's in the [Main/Universe/Galactic/Solar system/whatever] buttt it's always 256 versions behind, so add our repo anyways"
Yea, I know it only takes a few minutes (most of the time) to add a new repo, but it gets rather annoying after awhile, especially compared to a system that has just about everything just...there ready to go.
It makes me happy
That arch laptop looks exactly like my laptop lmao
I don't read the wiki because I can't read.
Whoever made this eons ago was a genius.
totally anecdotal.... but i've installed debian on a bunch of different machines and i've never had to "prepare additional installation media" for any weird hardware/firmware/drivers.... i just installed the base system and connected ethernet if any non-free stuff is needed. has anyone ever come across an ethernet interface that didn't work out of the box? maybe it didn't work 100%, but at least good enough to download the proper firmware to fix?
Well, my laptop doesn't have an ethernet port. When it happened to me (not on Debian, I think Mint or something), I didn't even use a phone OS that was capable of sharing my internet via USB. Fun times.
My old ThinkPad has non working ethernet. When I moved it to Debian after Ubuntu made 32 bit hard a non-free USB was by far the best way to get online
Some wifi drivers. It's because of the Debian philosophy of never using non-free (as in speech, not beer) software.
Thats why i said you just need a few minutes on ethernet.... Although i can see the problem these days with a lot of laptops shipping without ethernet ports
These days Debian ship with non-free firmware in the default installer, so laptops without ethernet isn't a problem.
Is the joke supposed to be that vegans can't read instructions?
Fake. What about installing the GPU drivers?
If you disable cache.nixos.org you too can have gentoo but with nixos 😏
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
If you know what your doing you can install arch faster than debian or fedora
But you don't. And neither do 99.99% of users.
This is why I made my own install script for arch that gets me fully up and running with working hibernation and other tweaks. It might not take 5 minutes to install but I only have to press a few buttons and let it run
That sounds like duct-tape-Nixos with extra steps.
Maybe, but it works great for me and I like Arch
But I don't know what I'm doing
I've had Ubuntu and derivative distros break on me infinitely more times than I've ever had Arch or its derivatives break at all.
Usually going from one major update of *buntu/Pop based distro to another.
Using Endeavour ATM, but tempted to give NixOS a crack and see what it's like...
"Vegan" lmfaoo
I am a vegan with a manbun, but I use Fedora.
I use cloister by the way.
It's like arch but you reinstall it at least 10 times in a row before you get anywhere.
I started installing it about a year and a half ago and I think it's still not finished. The best distro is the one you can using during installation.
As an arch user myself, I have to agree. This is eerily true. I love and hate arch for what it is. Just don't leave your laptop in the closet without updating it every few months. It's pretty certain that you have to reinstall arch if you wait too long.
This is how not to use Arch.. Update at least once a month, or if not maybe at least twice a month. If you can't handle the updates on Arch then consider switching to something like Debian....
"Guys, Arch isn't unstable, you just can't handle Arch if you don't treat it a specific way"
All Linux distros are kinda the same really.
By that logic, is not updating for several months incorrect behaviour?
If so, that would be quite problematic, since even other rolling distros like Tumbleweed don't have this problem.
It's not like I cannot handle the updates. I really love arch for its flexibility, and with that come bleeding edge updates. Fedora is the next best thing but I'm definitely not as experienced there and it's quite often lacking packages that arch does provide, either via its mirrors or the AUR
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