Strange-Scientist706: It’s a Meta problem. They chose the components including the OS. Just because it’s software doesn’t make it special. It’s no different than if the battery hardware stopped working because they chose cheap components.
pixxelpusher: As long as Sidequest and sideloading still works then for most it’s not going to affect them. What are people doing that they need access to system level stuff?
Hot_Wolf3820: As the holy Mark said, the quest is an open platform. An open platform let you do whatever you want. They should make it as open as possible, or just stop lying to customers all the time.
czyzczyz: I wonder if this’ll affect me - I managed to get resilio sync side loaded on my headset and it since the folder containing screenshots, video captures, and avatars over to a folder on my computer for easy access without having to use the app. Maybe it won’t be able to access that folder after this?
en1gmatic51: Sorry, but what exactly does this prevent? As far as I know, every game with mods is done within a game menu like contractors or blade and sorcery. How else are people modding their Quests? I dont usually connect my quest to a PC for any additional access. If I add files, it's usually via a DLNA local server app on my phone. where i can download my files off the Quest browser via a DLNA website link.
ElectricalTip2318: I experience that issue on my android phone I had to downgrade my file explorer using another file explorer that told me the latest google file explorer blocks the android folder to "secure" their system. BS, Google is becoming and Apple company.
June_Berries: He’s the developer of the main app used for quest modding, and stop being so negative. I’m just spreading awareness. You sound annoying to be around
grzire: Does that mean sideloaded games with VR mods won't work anymore? And what about games that have mods in-game for download via mod.io (like Contractors)?
SvenViking: If I'm understanding correctly this probably only affects apps that can be used to apply changes on the device (or need to access a folder under /android/ other than their own), so shouldn't affect e.g. DrBeef VR ports where you copy the files from a PC to an accessible location. (Hopefully?)
SvenViking: It should be OK to write to its own Android directory — and hopefully still folders outside of the Android directory but I’m not sure about that.
revanmj: Just so you know, it's not really Meta's change - those folders access was locked down by Google in Android. It only comes to Quest because it's OS is based on it and Meta updated Android's version that's used as a base to a newer one that includes Google's changes.
Also, because of this, I doubt any petition will make a difference as Meta most likely does not want to make too many changes from base Android code (as you then have to remember about them when you import new versions, which most likely is not worth the resources for a niche modding userbase from Meta's point of view).
Eisenstein: Zuck started the drive to VR in his company because he didn't want to be beholden to a platform he didn't control. I don't see reliance on Android being a long term action. There is going to be a MetaOS running on the headsets in the not-to-distant future as long as they decide that the move from mobile phones to VR/AR as people's primary internet device is still going to happen.
HeadsetHistorian: They were working on their own OS but cancelled it, haven't heard any rumours to the contrary since and it would take years to develop an OS on this level. I don't see them leaving android anytime soon, but isn't it AOSP? So at least they have more freedom there.
Hendeith: Or it's one of the reasons why they dropped it. I don't think people realize how much work is required to develop and maintain own OS, all development tools, SDKs, etc.
Lujho: Well, they had 300 people working on it for five years so they were obviously willing to throw the personpower at it at one point. But yes, I'm sure they had good reasons to halt it.
I'm sure they want to be in control of every link in the chain eventually though.
Hendeith: >they had 300 people working on it for five years
Which is just a drop in the sea when you consider how much work is needed to develop OS. Fedora 9 release is estimated to be 60 000 person-years, Red Hat 7.1 was 8000 person-years, 6.2 was 4500 person-years. Yep, years. So team of 300 people would need 15 years to develop Linux from 2000.
Of course Meta's OS wouldn't need to be as complex, so even considering MR/VR related challenges it would be less work but still not something 300 can do in 5 years.
Lujho: Not at all, they were working on just such a thing for five years. It was halted two years ago, and whether or not they return to the idea in the future, well, who knows, but the idea doesn’t come out of thin air. Eventually they probably will want full control of the OS.
Strange-Scientist706: First off - just because a writer for the Verge overheard two Meta employees talking about a project in a bar bathroom doesn’t mean it’s a core Meta initiative.
Second - if your primary source is something as unreliable as the Verge…
Lujho: There’s a kernel of truth in it. They don’t seem to be working on it currently, but there absolutely was such a thing in development and it’s possible they’ll return to the idea in future.
LevKusanagi: it also destroys the entire headset for PCVR users who wanna keep their Quest 3 charged during use in games. the goddamn water / debris warning is still there. this is a paperweight now
LevKusanagi: it also destroys the entire headset for PCVR users who wanna keep their Quest 3 charged during use in games. the goddamn water / debris warning is still there. this is a paperweight now
kevinmlgnoscope: This is being blown out of proportion, with how easily you can enable developer options, some people way smarter than I am have already found a fix, you simply use developer mode with a app called shizuku that gives ADB permissions to an app, I already emailed the dev of vr station to possibly integrate support, but some filemanagers, notably zarchiver, support shizuku and get around scoped storage. Don't panic, modding isnt dead, just a bit more annoying now.
throwawayPzaFm: It's only more annoying because the toolchain hasn't caught up yet, once everything is integrated with Shizuku instead of direct access it'll work pretty much the same.
MathematicianFar6725: I swear like 70% of the most popular custom maps/songs have performance issues on the Quest version of BS anyway, I ended up uninstalling the mods and going back to vanilla. The framerate dropping because the map has too many walls etc was making me miss
Even the most popular one (I think it was Midnight Lady?) chugs along at a heinous framerate
KTTalksTech: Are you on Q1? That one did pretty terrible with custom songs but not too many issues on my q2. The DOOM maps and a couple others are the only ones with noticeable performance issues. I can't remember the name but one literally runs at 4 fps max
MathematicianFar6725: Quest 3 :| not sure if I'm missing something obvious and I'm supposed to disable some effects or something, but the first thing I did was download the most popular maps and the majority of them had performance issues for me
KTTalksTech: Weird. Maybe a Q3 issue as it's still a relatively recent device. Or perhaps beat saber runs at a higher resolution or with less foveated rendering on Q3 which negatively impacts performance with lots of effects on screen... Just guessing tbh. I have most of the effects on except the falling cube halves as that makes the game unplayable as soon as you have to play fast
The__Guard: I play on Quest 3 and I haven't noticed really any performance issues. Mind you I only play on Expert and not Expert+ yet so perhaps there's something on the highest end? Not sure, but I have not noticed any performance degradation.
Honest-Birthday1306: Honestly disagree. The packs are really damn good these days ever since Linkin Park
And they've even remapped some of the old crap DLC maps too.
And yeah yeah, why pay for something you can get for free and all that... But beatsaber is still by far the best rhythm game on the quest, mods or not, I'd hardly say it "wouldn't be worth it"
TrefoilHat: Pretty sure I saw a post on the #announcements page of the quest modding discord that BMBF is broken under v63 but Quest Patcher still works.
DoNotLookUp1: If this is a sign of things to come, man the Deckard can't come quick enough. Hate the idea of not being able to access specific parts of my own devices. That's one of the benefits of an Android-based OS, why remove it?
redditrasberry: Bad timing considering Zuck just did whole videos where he pitched how open the Quest is compared to the competition. He should be called out on this directly if they proceed to roll it out.
LowSpecific6071: I CANT SWITCH TO SCOPED STORAGE
cubixy2k: Tldw?
Regular-Eggplant8406: Sounds like they locked down folder access. Seems odd after claiming they are the open platform. Breaks some if not all mods.
thoomfish: You really think that Mark Zuckerberg would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
Scoopshort: Remember what he said about the oculus brand?
roshanpr: “Open” meant they are not Apple. They more the likely shutdown every thing that reduces profit
Mugendon: Not odd, this is an Android problem not a Meta problem. Hate it on my phone too with the newest versions of Android.
Strange-Scientist706: It’s a Meta problem. They chose the components including the OS. Just because it’s software doesn’t make it special. It’s no different than if the battery hardware stopped working because they chose cheap components.
PhilMcGraw: They upgraded the version of Android the OS is based on, the new version of Android is more strict about access to specific files.
I.E. Meta didn't do anything about modding intentionally Android just hardened their security which makes it harder to mod.
bob101910: As much as this sucks, they easily could've gone the ban hammer route to piss people off even more.
relyt76: Pardon my ignorance, will this prevent the Quest Games Optimizer from functioning?
Pure-Summer-1606: Will this affect ManageXR?
Jemuzu-8304: So if I downloaded a mod with Mobile VR station, will it no longer work
pixxelpusher: As long as Sidequest and sideloading still works then for most it’s not going to affect them. What are people doing that they need access to system level stuff?
AquaRegia: They don't know, but they're mad they won't be able to do it anymore.
Hot_Wolf3820: As the holy Mark said, the quest is an open platform. An open platform let you do whatever you want. They should make it as open as possible, or just stop lying to customers all the time.
enilea: Oh god citravr would stop working too
czyzczyz: I wonder if this’ll affect me - I managed to get resilio sync side loaded on my headset and it since the folder containing screenshots, video captures, and avatars over to a folder on my computer for easy access without having to use the app. Maybe it won’t be able to access that folder after this?
en1gmatic51: Sorry, but what exactly does this prevent? As far as I know, every game with mods is done within a game menu like contractors or blade and sorcery. How else are people modding their Quests? I dont usually connect my quest to a PC for any additional access. If I add files, it's usually via a DLNA local server app on my phone. where i can download my files off the Quest browser via a DLNA website link.
casualsquid380: Just use a laptop or android
ElectricalTip2318: I experience that issue on my android phone I had to downgrade my file explorer using another file explorer that told me the latest google file explorer blocks the android folder to "secure" their system. BS, Google is becoming and Apple company.
Alexious_sh: Even on Android 14 Android/data/* folders are still accessible for the apps holding corresponding permissions: https://developer.android.com/training/data-storage/manage-all-files
So, may be RTFM before ringing a bell?
Oftenwrongs: I don't watch nobodies on youtube. Your post was so lazy that you couldn't even be bothered to give a summary or thoughts.
Flixwyy: Fuck you lmaoo
June_Berries: He’s the developer of the main app used for quest modding, and stop being so negative. I’m just spreading awareness. You sound annoying to be around
Mythril_Zombie: I'm sure they care what a nobody on Reddit is whining about.
beaglepooch: Name checks out
FoferJ: you should demand a full refund for such incomplete service
Gravesplitter: Would this affect quest games optimizer? I literally just bought it lol fuck
June_Berries: i dont think so
Gravesplitter: Hope not. Thanks for sharing regardless
grzire: Does that mean sideloaded games with VR mods won't work anymore? And what about games that have mods in-game for download via mod.io (like Contractors)?
SvenViking: If I'm understanding correctly this probably only affects apps that can be used to apply changes on the device (or need to access a folder under /android/ other than their own), so shouldn't affect e.g. DrBeef VR ports where you copy the files from a PC to an accessible location. (Hopefully?)
Honest-Birthday1306: Does that mean QGO's on the chopping block?
SvenViking: Not certain but I don’t think it changes files in app folders so it probably won’t be affected.
DreamsAnimations: But how to save progress if cant write on memory?
SvenViking: It should be OK to write to its own Android directory — and hopefully still folders outside of the Android directory but I’m not sure about that.
revanmj: Just so you know, it's not really Meta's change - those folders access was locked down by Google in Android. It only comes to Quest because it's OS is based on it and Meta updated Android's version that's used as a base to a newer one that includes Google's changes.
Also, because of this, I doubt any petition will make a difference as Meta most likely does not want to make too many changes from base Android code (as you then have to remember about them when you import new versions, which most likely is not worth the resources for a niche modding userbase from Meta's point of view).
Eisenstein: Zuck started the drive to VR in his company because he didn't want to be beholden to a platform he didn't control. I don't see reliance on Android being a long term action. There is going to be a MetaOS running on the headsets in the not-to-distant future as long as they decide that the move from mobile phones to VR/AR as people's primary internet device is still going to happen.
HeadsetHistorian: They were working on their own OS but cancelled it, haven't heard any rumours to the contrary since and it would take years to develop an OS on this level. I don't see them leaving android anytime soon, but isn't it AOSP? So at least they have more freedom there.
pmacnayr: That’s a foolish take, there’s little to no value in starting over from scratch other than to say they did it
PhilMcGraw: > There is going to be a MetaOS running on the headsets in the not-to-distant future
Big pile of doubt here as they would need a full compatibility layer to keep their current ecosystem of apps and games.
Lujho: They were working on just such a thing for some time though, so they must have had a plan for that.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/5/22868388/meta-xros-vr-ar-os-development-canceled
Hendeith: Or it's one of the reasons why they dropped it. I don't think people realize how much work is required to develop and maintain own OS, all development tools, SDKs, etc.
Lujho: Well, they had 300 people working on it for five years so they were obviously willing to throw the personpower at it at one point. But yes, I'm sure they had good reasons to halt it.
I'm sure they want to be in control of every link in the chain eventually though.
Hendeith: >they had 300 people working on it for five years
Which is just a drop in the sea when you consider how much work is needed to develop OS. Fedora 9 release is estimated to be 60 000 person-years, Red Hat 7.1 was 8000 person-years, 6.2 was 4500 person-years. Yep, years. So team of 300 people would need 15 years to develop Linux from 2000.
Of course Meta's OS wouldn't need to be as complex, so even considering MR/VR related challenges it would be less work but still not something 300 can do in 5 years.
Lujho: I assume they would have been starting from Linux, just like Android did. Not from scratch.
259tim: Completely baseless speculation.
Lujho: Not at all, they were working on just such a thing for five years. It was halted two years ago, and whether or not they return to the idea in the future, well, who knows, but the idea doesn’t come out of thin air. Eventually they probably will want full control of the OS.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/5/22868388/meta-xros-vr-ar-os-development-canceled
Strange-Scientist706: First off - just because a writer for the Verge overheard two Meta employees talking about a project in a bar bathroom doesn’t mean it’s a core Meta initiative.
Second - if your primary source is something as unreliable as the Verge…
Lujho: That was just a story about the project being halted. The actual existence of the project came from Meta themselves.
Possible_Ad_4835: Source ?
pablo603: https://preview.redd.it/8s9dqlmu2wkc1.png?width=707&format=png&auto=webp&s=79f715dc969dbf7f651ad1cfa6564f6f273aaed1
beaglepooch: Kernel of truth. We see what you did there.
Lujho: There’s a kernel of truth in it. They don’t seem to be working on it currently, but there absolutely was such a thing in development and it’s possible they’ll return to the idea in future.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/5/22868388/meta-xros-vr-ar-os-development-canceled
Lujho: They WERE working on a proprietary OS a while ago, but cancelled it. Who knows when/if they’ll go back to that idea.
kevinmlgnoscope: Just use developer mode + shizuku and zarchiver, bit more tedious but it gets around the new restriction easily
ProfessionalCook9009: commenting that to save for future. thanks
benmaks: You do know there is a save feature
heliphael: I saved in on reddit, RES, screenshotted it and storing in on a floppy, just in case.
Consistent_Look8995: Screenshot ftw!
cyberpsycho999: Oh. So that's what Zuck mean when he said open...
Mugendon: This is an Android problem not a Meta problem. Hate it on my phone too with the newest versions of Android.
LevKusanagi: it also destroys the entire headset for PCVR users who wanna keep their Quest 3 charged during use in games. the goddamn water / debris warning is still there. this is a paperweight now
throwawayPzaFm: Huh?
LevKusanagi: it also destroys the entire headset for PCVR users who wanna keep their Quest 3 charged during use in games. the goddamn water / debris warning is still there. this is a paperweight now
https://communityforums.atmeta.com/t5/Get-Help/V62-USB-C-Debris-Water-Warning/m-p/1158893#M279325
throwawayPzaFm: cheers
Swisst: If they’re locking down folder access does this affect loading videos on your Quest? The Media Studio access already seems broken as-is?
June_Berries: they're only locking scoped storage, stuff like downloads and documents should be fine
kevinmlgnoscope: This is being blown out of proportion, with how easily you can enable developer options, some people way smarter than I am have already found a fix, you simply use developer mode with a app called shizuku that gives ADB permissions to an app, I already emailed the dev of vr station to possibly integrate support, but some filemanagers, notably zarchiver, support shizuku and get around scoped storage. Don't panic, modding isnt dead, just a bit more annoying now.
throwawayPzaFm: It's only more annoying because the toolchain hasn't caught up yet, once everything is integrated with Shizuku instead of direct access it'll work pretty much the same.
tx_brandon: Does this break BMBF?
The__Guard: This is my biggest worry; would make BS far worse than its PCVR counterpart...
NotRandomseer: Without mods , beat saber really wouldnt be worth it
MathematicianFar6725: I swear like 70% of the most popular custom maps/songs have performance issues on the Quest version of BS anyway, I ended up uninstalling the mods and going back to vanilla. The framerate dropping because the map has too many walls etc was making me miss
Even the most popular one (I think it was Midnight Lady?) chugs along at a heinous framerate
KTTalksTech: Are you on Q1? That one did pretty terrible with custom songs but not too many issues on my q2. The DOOM maps and a couple others are the only ones with noticeable performance issues. I can't remember the name but one literally runs at 4 fps max
MathematicianFar6725: Quest 3 :| not sure if I'm missing something obvious and I'm supposed to disable some effects or something, but the first thing I did was download the most popular maps and the majority of them had performance issues for me
SvenViking: Are you using Quest Game Optimiser or anything?
KTTalksTech: Weird. Maybe a Q3 issue as it's still a relatively recent device. Or perhaps beat saber runs at a higher resolution or with less foveated rendering on Q3 which negatively impacts performance with lots of effects on screen... Just guessing tbh. I have most of the effects on except the falling cube halves as that makes the game unplayable as soon as you have to play fast
The__Guard: I play on Quest 3 and I haven't noticed really any performance issues. Mind you I only play on Expert and not Expert+ yet so perhaps there's something on the highest end? Not sure, but I have not noticed any performance degradation.
Honest-Birthday1306: Honestly disagree. The packs are really damn good these days ever since Linkin Park
And they've even remapped some of the old crap DLC maps too.
And yeah yeah, why pay for something you can get for free and all that... But beatsaber is still by far the best rhythm game on the quest, mods or not, I'd hardly say it "wouldn't be worth it"
TrefoilHat: Pretty sure I saw a post on the #announcements page of the quest modding discord that BMBF is broken under v63 but Quest Patcher still works.
vdksl: Not sure about BMBF.
I do have Beat Saber mods using Quest Patcher though, and they still work.
99% of my Quest 3 usage is Beat Saber with custom songs so I guess this headset becomes a paperweight if they remove all mods.
tx_brandon: Are you using the latest version of Beat Saber and custom songs at the same time?!
throwawayPzaFm: Doubt it. Mods, and as such BetterSongSearch require 1.28.
Why is the latest version important for you?
OneLostDogInTheWorld: When did this go into effect?
EDIT: Can't tell but it looks like we might be able to bypass it with a PC.
June_Berries: It’s in the v63 beta rn and will go into effect for everyone when v63 gets pushed out
DoNotLookUp1: If this is a sign of things to come, man the Deckard can't come quick enough. Hate the idea of not being able to access specific parts of my own devices. That's one of the benefits of an Android-based OS, why remove it?
JorgTheElder: > That's one of the benefits of an Android-based OS, why remove it?
I am pretty sure it is actually caused by an update to Android, not anything that Meta is doing.
redditrasberry: Bad timing considering Zuck just did whole videos where he pitched how open the Quest is compared to the competition. He should be called out on this directly if they proceed to roll it out.
Mugendon: This is an Android problem not a Meta problem. Hate it on my phone too with the newest versions of Android.
devedander: I feel like this is 99% going to impact beat saber
13617: Augh, anyway to stop my headsets from updating? I can't risk this, they already made it so much worse with V51