I think Americans in general don't see it as a difficult choice to support Ukraine
Politicians find it difficult because Republicans are pro-russian, and both parties are heavily aligned with Israel. So Ukraines the only one really seeing any push back.
Yeah let me know when anyone actually poses an existential threat to Israel and then we can talk. Until then, they deserve zero aid while perpetuating genocide.
Conflating genocide with "defense" is zionist talk.
Honestly surprised that I hear this so much. For context, I am not a Republican, so I'm not defending them, but every Republican I've talked to has been anti Russia to the max. They might disagree on the amount of money that we send Ukraine ("Why are we sending billions over there when we can't even figure out our own country" comes up a lot) but I've never heard a single one say anything in the support of Russia. It's so confusing when I hear people say conservatives are pro-Russia... Different ecosystems I guess
I do believe they were referring quite specifically to the politicians, since on every side it seems politicians are disconnected from their constituents and do things those constituents absolutely wouldn't (this isn't some bizarre both-sides argument btw, just general frustration at the state of things)
It was the Democrat president that bypassed congress twice to send munitions to Israel during it's active genocidal campaign so no, it's not Republicans.
Also, Republicans want to send weapons and money to Israel and not to Ukraine, while Congressional/Biden admin Democrats want to do both. So with Republicans you get double the genocides.
It would work. Senator Sanders forced a vote to require the State department to report on Israel's humanitarian violations or immediately withhold aid, and the Senate quickly voted 72-11 against the proposal. That is probably the most bi-partisan vote we've seen in decades. But don't go thinking that the enormous American political machine actually represents the will of the American people. They represent corporate interests, and hardly even try to hide that anymore.
Yes, a number of users on Lemmy have made that claim, and this article shows references of it being done by various media outlets and other political pundits.
David Friedman, the conservative former US ambassador to Israel during Donald Trump’s presidency, went further, tweeting before Monday’s protest: “Any American Jew attending this rally is not a Jew – yes I said it!”
These two conflicts have a lot of points of views. In russia ukraine its a bit easier because russia attacked ukriane so its pretty clear that russia is the "evil". But with israel and gaza a lot of people confuse palestinians with hamas and israeli people with the israeli government. Ad for why ukraine supports israel when they are much closer to gaza i think its because they really need the us and eu to help so they didnt even have an option.
I think it's more that people confuse the Israeli government with "the Jewish people", when the truth is that they are very separate. The Israeli people are somewhere in the middle. There seems to be a bunch of them who are quite supportive of their government's actions.
I find it funny that Americans (esp. Republicans) who love to «win» at all things, would be fine to allow Russia to win against the west in Ukraine. I think if they decide to stay on their isolationist path, Lavrov’s propaganda from earlier in the week will come true, and the US will seize to be a superpower. «Greatest country in the world»? Starting to look pretty weak to me.
The US is speed running the Empire game. They blitzed through the early game, beat a super power, became the dominant military force in the world, dominated in culture, and are now seeing how fast they can decline before the entire country implodes on itself.
I think Americans in general don't see it as a difficult choice to support Ukraine
Politicians find it difficult because Republicans are pro-russian, and both parties are heavily aligned with Israel. So Ukraines the only one really seeing any push back.
Fuck that, isreal is a terrorist state. Anyone voting for funding isreal is voting against human rights.
Israel should still exist
Yeah let me know when anyone actually poses an existential threat to Israel and then we can talk. Until then, they deserve zero aid while perpetuating genocide.
Conflating genocide with "defense" is zionist talk.
Honestly surprised that I hear this so much. For context, I am not a Republican, so I'm not defending them, but every Republican I've talked to has been anti Russia to the max. They might disagree on the amount of money that we send Ukraine ("Why are we sending billions over there when we can't even figure out our own country" comes up a lot) but I've never heard a single one say anything in the support of Russia. It's so confusing when I hear people say conservatives are pro-Russia... Different ecosystems I guess
I do believe they were referring quite specifically to the politicians, since on every side it seems politicians are disconnected from their constituents and do things those constituents absolutely wouldn't (this isn't some bizarre both-sides argument btw, just general frustration at the state of things)
Ah, that would explain it. I have a bad habit of assuming people mean people, and I like ignoring that politicians exist :p
Fixed
Yes. As part of America, fuck this apartheid we’re funding.
MUCH Better
You say this as if there were ever a choice to have a good government.
Sorry, do you think bourgeois democracy is really democracy?
first past the post did
So then vote only for people against FPTP
A bunch of people who won't accept moral accountability for what it does.
I’d revise that to “Republicans”
It was the Democrat president that bypassed congress twice to send munitions to Israel during it's active genocidal campaign so no, it's not Republicans.
Also, Republicans want to send weapons and money to Israel and not to Ukraine, while Congressional/Biden admin Democrats want to do both. So with Republicans you get double the genocides.
Politicians, yes, constituents, no.
If you vote for Democrats, you de facto are one.
That's not the point. I was saying that national Democratic politicians are not properly representing what their voters think on the Israel issue.
I wanted to but changed it to "Americans" on the last minute.
I think the majority of Americans don't really see a dilemma there.
I think replacing it with "American Politicians" would work, but accuracy, in my Polandb... meme?
It would work. Senator Sanders forced a vote to require the State department to report on Israel's humanitarian violations or immediately withhold aid, and the Senate quickly voted 72-11 against the proposal. That is probably the most bi-partisan vote we've seen in decades. But don't go thinking that the enormous American political machine actually represents the will of the American people. They represent corporate interests, and hardly even try to hide that anymore.
Did anyone call Sanders anti-semitic?
Yes, a number of users on Lemmy have made that claim, and this article shows references of it being done by various media outlets and other political pundits.
Sanders is Jewish.... I guess that wouldn't stop people from throwing baseless accusations around.
Wait till you get a load of this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/jewish-protest-israel-gaza-washington-dc
These two conflicts have a lot of points of views. In russia ukraine its a bit easier because russia attacked ukriane so its pretty clear that russia is the "evil". But with israel and gaza a lot of people confuse palestinians with hamas and israeli people with the israeli government. Ad for why ukraine supports israel when they are much closer to gaza i think its because they really need the us and eu to help so they didnt even have an option.
I think it's more that people confuse the Israeli government with "the Jewish people", when the truth is that they are very separate. The Israeli people are somewhere in the middle. There seems to be a bunch of them who are quite supportive of their government's actions.
Yeah true. A lot of people overlook things like jewish voice for peace and people like Bernie Sanders.
I find it funny that Americans (esp. Republicans) who love to «win» at all things, would be fine to allow Russia to win against the west in Ukraine. I think if they decide to stay on their isolationist path, Lavrov’s propaganda from earlier in the week will come true, and the US will seize to be a superpower. «Greatest country in the world»? Starting to look pretty weak to me.
The US is speed running the Empire game. They blitzed through the early game, beat a super power, became the dominant military force in the world, dominated in culture, and are now seeing how fast they can decline before the entire country implodes on itself.
Capitalism made the system more efficient!
Well the leader of one side campaigned in 2016 on the promise of carpet bombing the Middle East and they side with Russia
Or we fix some shit at home first.
There is always shit to solve, but right now, if ukraine's shit isn't solved soon enough, we all will have a lot of piled up shit to solve.
Weaker Russia means lower need for future military spending, and it is cheaper to give old weapons to Ukraine than to dispose of them locally.
That never happens. Plus we don't have anyone bombing our kids.
True, but many of them are being shot in our own schools.
And I heard they are being put to work too.
Pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist has not historically been a good strategy for any country.
Not a tough choice, send aid to Israel, stop jihadists from spreading their terror through the West.
Love to save ukrainian children by dragging the war on, making it deadlier and deadlier.
As Obama said, "Russia will always have escalatory dominance in the region"
A war with better armed Ukraine would be shorter.
We could make Russian dominance in the region history, just like the myth of their military competence is history.
The "west" is running out of stockpiled munitions at this point.
As Obama said, Russia will always have escalatory dominance in Ukraine. The Biden administration is just dragging out a loss.